The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 So that run of winning 7 in 9 doesn't count? That's almost a quarter of a season where we won nearly all of our games. That run is league winning form. We were 6th or something at Christmas last season. If Carver had such a run anywhere from now until the end of the season he would get the job permanently. If Dick did that he would probably get the Sunderland job too. If Martinez did that Everton's season would take a much better complexion. You can say the same for our run this season - it has effectively kept us up. I think we may have won 4 or so games outside of that run. Pardew is a streaky manager. We know this. His bad streaks are historic no doubt. But he's also capable of putting together very decent runs of results. Runs that reach that reach the targets of his boss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nattfare Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 A manager that is so afraid of losing that he employs such negative tactics isn't a good manager in my book. Ironic really that he constantly set the team up for a defeat because of his fear for defeats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 So that run of winning 7 in 9 doesn't count? That's almost a quarter of a season where we won nearly all of our games. That run is league winning form. We were 6th or something at Christmas last season. If Carver had such a run anywhere from now until the end of the season he would get the job permanently. If Dick did that he would probably get the Sunderland job too. If Martinez did that Everton's season would take a much better complexion. You can say the same for our run this season - it has effectively kept us up. I think we may have won 4 or so games outside of that run. Pardew is a streaky manager. We know this. His bad streaks are historic no doubt. But he's also capable of putting together very decent runs of results. Runs that reach that reach the targets of his boss. Those runs caveats by regular thumpings and non display accompanying incredibly low targets? Yeah it meets those targets. Doesn't mean we should be happy though. The bloke was on a downward spiral and was gagging to bail to someone that could still help him maintain the status his ego requests. Not good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 We were 6th or something at Christmas last season. this is the real pardew story i'm afraid, he had a top class player in his side playing for a move and carrying the team while pardew presumably told the other 9 outfield players to stay in shape while cabaye ran the show he lost that player and went into a catastrophic tailspin for which he should undoubtedly been fired he's fucking terrible, just utterly utterly awful i'd rather have carver Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Not beating Palace, Hull, Stoke, Burnley etc outside of that run is fine because, once upon a time, we won 6 in a row? That run overshadows any failings before and after? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Those runs are under 5 games man. Lambert got a new contract after 2 wins from 3. Had Poyet or Lambert picked up 22 points out of 27 at any point this season - both would still have jobs. This is why I can't take you guys seriously. I've never said Pardew was a good manager. I just don't think he was "f'ing terrible". Carver - that's terrible. Warnock, he's terrible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nattfare Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 The guy was utterly horrible. But I don't think any argument will change your opinion on that, TCP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Not beating Palace, Hull, Stoke, Burnley etc outside of that run is fine because, once upon a time, we won 6 in a row? That run overshadows any failings before and after? No it doesn't. But we also beat Chelsea & Liverpool at home and Spurs away. I'm just saying you have to take that into consideration too. And when you take it as a whole - a points tally - it's average rather than "f'ing terrible". I hope this simple statement is getting to you people. DD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 What do you mean you people? #mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Finishing mid-table is fine in itself - lots of clubs would kill to be mid-table Premier League. 10th in itself isn't a problem. Our current squad is roughly at that level. The main problem is the club's ethos, which is seeping out of every employee. Ashley's regime craves mediocrity and have no intentions of chasing success, that's what winds us up. Pardew was complicit in all this which, combined with his style of play and twattish personality, made us hate him. He showed no shame in slowly strangling the soul out of our club. A "well, it could be worse" attitude has captured some of our sheep fans. Just because things could be worse doesn't mean supporters should just accept things. Man Utd fans were right to be unhappy at 7th place, even though most other clubs would love that. It's all in proportion, really. But with Pardew, we had enough of a sample size to see what he really is - a gobshite tactical dinosaur who sometimes won games with the good players at his disposal. He may win a few at Palace and Carver may continue the freefall, but it's bloody wonderful to know he's gone. Let's not re-write history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Finishing mid-table is fine in itself - lots of clubs would kill to be mid-table Premier League. 10th in itself isn't a problem. Our current squad is roughly at that level. The main problem is the club's ethos, which is seeping out of every employee. Ashley's regime craves mediocrity and have no intentions of chasing success, that's what winds us up. Pardew was complicit in all this which, combined with his style of play and twattish personality, made us hate him. He showed no shame in slowly strangling the soul out of our club. A "well, it could be worse" attitude has captured some of our sheep fans. Just because things could be worse doesn't mean supporters should just accept things. Man Utd fans were right to be unhappy at 7th place, even though most other clubs would love that. It's all in proportion, really. But with Pardew, we had enough of a sample size to see what he really is - a gobshite tactical dinosaur who sometimes won games with the good players at his disposal. He may win a few at Palace and Carver may continue the freefall, but it's bloody wonderful to know he's gone. Let's not re-write history. And this I agree with. But Pardew didn't create these problems but yet he is the villain. He's an awful manager. When we get the next guy - if the policy is exactly the same which I believe it will be... will we be happier if maybe the football is a bit better? If we lose to Chelsea but beat relegation teams? A more regular type of midtable mediocrity like Stoke rather than the ups and downs of Pardew? So that's why for me - I say Pardew is a mediocre PL manager. He could do a passable job for a number of PL teams and imo - based on how our club is run - he did a barebones job here. He wasn't awful. When we get a new manager, I don't think we'll do much better under Ashley. That's why i've always banged-on about him being the symptom. He's gone and we are still rotten to the core. If a new man came and decided to buck the trend and go for the cups I would love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. You have accepted we'll never ever win anything, forever? Good God man. You are broken. Can't be having that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Well it's highly unlikely in my lifetime. We aren't even trying to win a cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Well it's highly unlikely in my lifetime. We aren't even trying to win a cup. Of course there are rightful concerns about why we feel the need to spell out our priorities. However, Pardew seemed contrite enough over his own failures in the cups and derby's on soccer Saturday to suggest there was no diktat from above demanding weakened sides, something the club have also denied recently. Maybe not as much effort as the rest of us would like to see put in (just as in every aspect of the club), but to suggest they'd make no effort to win a cup or anything else is bunkum imho. Never let the candle of hope die. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Finishing mid-table is fine in itself - lots of clubs would kill to be mid-table Premier League. 10th in itself isn't a problem. Our current squad is roughly at that level. The main problem is the club's ethos, which is seeping out of every employee. Ashley's regime craves mediocrity and have no intentions of chasing success, that's what winds us up. Pardew was complicit in all this which, combined with his style of play and twattish personality, made us hate him. He showed no shame in slowly strangling the soul out of our club. A "well, it could be worse" attitude has captured some of our sheep fans. Just because things could be worse doesn't mean supporters should just accept things. Man Utd fans were right to be unhappy at 7th place, even though most other clubs would love that. It's all in proportion, really. But with Pardew, we had enough of a sample size to see what he really is - a gobshite tactical dinosaur who sometimes won games with the good players at his disposal. He may win a few at Palace and Carver may continue the freefall, but it's bloody wonderful to know he's gone. Let's not re-write history. And this I agree with. But Pardew didn't create these problems but yet he is the villain. He's an awful manager. When we get the next guy - if the policy is exactly the same which I believe it will be... will we be happier if maybe the football is a bit better? If we lose to Chelsea but beat relegation teams? A more regular type of midtable mediocrity like Stoke rather than the ups and downs of Pardew? So that's why for me - I say Pardew is a mediocre PL manager. He could do a passable job for a number of PL teams and imo - based on how our club is run - he did a barebones job here. He wasn't awful. When we get a new manager, I don't think we'll do much better under Ashley. That's why i've always banged-on about him being the symptom. He's gone and we are still rotten to the core. If a new man came and decided to buck the trend and go for the cups I would love it. He's the NikNak to Ashley's Scaramanga. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Excellent reference. Wonder if Ashley has three nipples? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 After skimming TCD's recent guff, I looked back in this thread to see what he had to say about Pardew back when he was doing his "best" with us. Skimming a good 20-30 pages or so from a few different days, I couldn't find a single post from him. I deride two things from that: 1) Halcyon days for the forum because he kept his fat fingers away from a thread and 2) he probably always was a Pardew supporter, and the worst kind who pipes down when he was breaking terrible records left, right and centre and now pops up to tell us how he "wasn't all that bad". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Finishing mid-table is fine in itself - lots of clubs would kill to be mid-table Premier League. 10th in itself isn't a problem. Our current squad is roughly at that level. The main problem is the club's ethos, which is seeping out of every employee. Ashley's regime craves mediocrity and have no intentions of chasing success, that's what winds us up. Pardew was complicit in all this which, combined with his style of play and twattish personality, made us hate him. He showed no shame in slowly strangling the soul out of our club. A "well, it could be worse" attitude has captured some of our sheep fans. Just because things could be worse doesn't mean supporters should just accept things. Man Utd fans were right to be unhappy at 7th place, even though most other clubs would love that. It's all in proportion, really. But with Pardew, we had enough of a sample size to see what he really is - a gobshite tactical dinosaur who sometimes won games with the good players at his disposal. He may win a few at Palace and Carver may continue the freefall, but it's bloody wonderful to know he's gone. Let's not re-write history. And this I agree with. But Pardew didn't create these problems but yet he is the villain. He's an awful manager. When we get the next guy - if the policy is exactly the same which I believe it will be... will we be happier if maybe the football is a bit better? If we lose to Chelsea but beat relegation teams? A more regular type of midtable mediocrity like Stoke rather than the ups and downs of Pardew? So that's why for me - I say Pardew is a mediocre PL manager. He could do a passable job for a number of PL teams and imo - based on how our club is run - he did a barebones job here. He wasn't awful. When we get a new manager, I don't think we'll do much better under Ashley. That's why i've always banged-on about him being the symptom. He's gone and we are still rotten to the core. If a new man came and decided to buck the trend and go for the cups I would love it. If you're a manager who can beat the dross consistently then you have a platform to push on and try to get somewhere a la Moyes and Everton. Pardew's mid table has to depend on big results and streaks rather than consistency and that will always fail in the long run, which is why his career is the way is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 After skimming TCD's recent guff, I looked back in this thread to see what he had to say about Pardew back when he was doing his "best" with us. Skimming a good 20-30 pages or so from a few different days, I couldn't find a single post from him. I deride two things from that: 1) Halcyon days for the forum because he kept his fat fingers away from a thread and 2) he probably always was a Pardew supporter, and the worst kind who pipes down when he was breaking terrible records left, right and centre and now pops up to tell us how he "wasn't all that bad". How can this be? He makes some of the most erudite points on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 He'll never live that down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. I'd be a lot happier than I am now. Obviously ambition is better, but we don't have any. So in the meantime I'd like to enjoy the match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. thought this had been covered by people more knowledgeable of the french league than your good self, accepted wisdom is that the current lyon team is benefitting massively from the work garde did in his time as manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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