England

[The Prophet]

Just now, WillingtonMag said:

You have to consider to teams that put us out and the manner of our exits though. Wasn't even a great Italian side they haven't even qualified for the world cup, we were more than capable of beating them and the game was there for the taking. 

 

I don't disagree that he's tactically limited. The Euro final saw the best and the worst of him. His set up to suprise Italy and they looked absolutely rattled for 20-25 minutes, but we didn't kill the game.

 

Then Mancini tweaks Italy, to give them an extra body in the middle of the park and he didn't have an answer.

 

That said, the fact we got to the final seems to be totally overlooked. It's so something that so many before him haven't managed, with far better squads.

[WillingtonMag]

7 minutes ago, HTT II said:

The maniacs are the ones calling for his head, the same mindset that would want KK sacked for finishing 2nd and not 1st. 

Would you be happy with Southgate at Newcastle If Howe wasn't here? 

[Hanshithispantz]

22 minutes ago, xLiaaamx said:

 

I know someone who would be mint but it would leave us out of a Manager and Club over Country everyday for me. 

 

It's why I'm perfectly happy for Southgate to keep plodding on. I don't want to lose Eddie. 

Howe wouldn't give up the Newcastle job for England at this stage though, I think Potter should be at a club like Arsenal but if someone like them aren't available for him I would imagine it wold be pretty tempting.

 

We would have to have a poor WC to consider it though.

[WillingtonMag]

Just now, Hanshithispantz said:

Howe wouldn't give up the Newcastle job for England at this stage though, I think Potter should be at a club like Arsenal but if someone like them aren't available for him I would imagine it wold be pretty tempting.

 

We would have to have a poor WC to consider it though.

I'm not so sure mind think it's possible he would take it.

[Hanshithispantz]

3 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said:

Would you be happy with Southgate at Newcastle If Howe wasn't here? 

But no manager of Howe's ability and suitability are going to be interested in the England job. Like I said maybe Potter if he's still milling about around 10th with Brighton a year from now?

[Hanshithispantz]

2 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said:

I'm not so sure mind think it's possible he would take it.

Not a chance Howe would leave one of the most exciting gigs in football for an international job like.

[WillingtonMag]

Just now, Hanshithispantz said:

Not a chance Howe would leave one of the most exciting gigs in football for an international job like.

Sure I've heard him asked in an interview mind and his answer wasn't very reassuring.

[WillingtonMag]

4 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Not a chance Howe would leave one of the most exciting gigs in football for an international job like.

Just seen one where he's asked and he said the England job is the ultimate job but doesn't think he'd be able to turn his back on Bournemouth so hopefully you're right and that would be the same here.

[Kid Icarus]

I know I said the World Cup 2018 squad was shit at the time and said we'd get slaughtered. But we got to a world cup semi final and a European final, so they must be the best English players since 66. Ferdinand, Terry, Scholes, Lampard or Gerrard, and Rooney couldn't hack it against Romania, the Yanks, Algeria, the Germans, and Iceland, but Maguire, Stones, Rice, and Phillips did so are better! Southgate did fuck all but hold them back with his negative shit. We only played easy teams in 2018 btw! The good ones we beat had nothing to do with Southgate, it was the players and home advantage and luck  I know easy teams beat hard teams at tournaments but we could have done better and would have won the Euros with a better manager. 

 

Ask anyone outside of the Southgate wank along on here and they'll tell you all that togetherness, team bonding, restored pride bollocks had nowt to do with him. It's just bullshit spread by his mates the guardian and Gary Lineker

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[Guest HTT II]

27 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said:

Would you be happy with Southgate at Newcastle If Howe wasn't here? 

No, but for me he’s not a club manager, he’s an international manager. Having said that give him Harry Kane up front and the players he has for England…

[Flip]

2 hours ago, Unbelievable said:

Again, I don’t think that’s accurate. I loved the first edition and how we reached the final beating Germany, France and England along the way. I think this type of disdain is similar to what we always get for the Europa League or the new Conference League. Yes, they’re not CL, but again I can tell from experience of people around me that e.g. Feyenoord reaching the Conference League final was great for them. I’d liken it to us winning the 1969 Fairs Cup. That too may have been a bit second rate as a competition, but if you’re competing in it and winning it, it still massively beats pre-season friendlies and that’s the same for the National League. Hell, I even celebrated when we won the Intertoto in 2006

 

I mean we could argue for ages, and I here you, but I don't agree. In a way you are right, the Conference League etc is very good for smaller clubs, the same way the Nations League is good for smaller nations. However, your example forgets the fact that Liverpool, Real etc aren't playing the CL, Europa League and Conference League. If they were, no one would care about the Europa League or Conference League. 

 

This is evident by the fact that many teams are treating it like friendlies with their line-ups. Trying new formations and new players as preparation for the World Cup. I mean, it's like saying Messi winning the Finalissima is a major international trophy for him. It's not. I promise you, ask any European country if they'd switch qualifying for a major international tournament for winning the Nations League. 

[JumpersForGoalposts]

50 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said:

Would you be happy with Southgate at Newcastle If Howe wasn't here? 

I'd be devastated about that. There's a massive gulf between club and international currently and Southgate is a proven failure at club level.

 

Yes, he'd wear a nice suit and say nice things, but I wouldn't want to see a harmonious squad of shite players relegated whilst playing heartless, boring, naive football. 

[Flip]

42 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I know I said the World Cup 2018 squad was shit at the time and said we'd get slaughtered. But we got to a world cup semi final and a European final, so they must be the best English players since 66. Ferdinand, Terry, Scholes, Lampard or Gerrard, and Rooney couldn't hack it against Romania, the Yanks, Algeria, the Germans, and Iceland, but Maguire, Stones, Rice, and Phillips did so are better! Southgate did fuck all but hold them back with his negative shit. We only played easy teams in 2018 btw! The good ones we beat had nothing to do with Southgate, it was the players and home advantage and luck  I know easy teams beat hard teams at tournaments but we could have done better and would have won the Euros with a better manager. 

 

Ask anyone outside of the Southgate wank along on here and they'll tell you all that togetherness, team bonding, restored pride bollocks had nowt to do with him. It's just bullshit spread by his mates the guardian and Gary Lineker

 

 

 

 

I'd agree here in many ways. We discussed Martinez wasting talents yesterday, but I feel like Southgate should receive far more criticism than Martinez in regards to that. England had the golden chance to reach a World Cup final and then lost to a rather average Croatia side (evident by the French demolishing them). I doubt many top nations has had an easier way to a World Cup final than England had in 2018. 

 

That being said, England have a good enough squad to win it all this year and national team managers aren't as important as in club football.

[Optimistic Nut]

8 minutes ago, JumpersForGoalposts said:

I'd be devastated about that. There's a massive gulf between club and international currently and Southgate is a proven failure at club level.

 

Yes, he'd wear a nice suit and say nice things, but I wouldn't want to see a harmonious squad of shite players relegated whilst playing heartless, boring, naive football. 

He had a pretty average squad at Boro and managed two comfortable mid-table finishes before relegation. That’s been his only job so seems a bit harsh saying he’s a proven failure? Could easily see him in a few years at someone like Palace.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Optimistic Nut

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Flip said:

 

I'd agree here in many ways. We discussed Martinez wasting talents yesterday, but I feel like Southgate should receive far more criticism than Martinez in regards to that. England had the golden chance to reach a World Cup final and then lost to a rather average Croatia side (evident by the French demolishing them). I doubt many top nations has had an easier way to a World Cup final than England had in 2018. 

 

That being said, England have a good enough squad to win it all this year and national team managers aren't as important as in club football.

 

Finding it a lot harder to detect the sarcasm in this post than in mine

[Flip]

3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Finding it a lot harder to detect the sarcasm in this post than in mine

 

  Having re-read your post I'm not even sure if I'm quoting the right post. Don't think I read it properly.  I read we beat the easy teams and then posted without reading it all. That's what happens when you post KI, I can't bother reading through the whole post  

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Flip

[Hanshithispantz]

Southgate looks like the kind of bloke who tries to keep up with modern methods - he just prefers the more cautious side of the game. He's not a dinosaur and is probably a much more knowledgeable manager than he was at Boro. He's obviously been heavily involved with Ashworth, so he sort of has to be. I wouldn't want him here but I wouldn't be surprised if he did well in the Premiership like.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[PeepShow4life]

People are saying Southgate must be good because of how far we got in the last two tournaments.

 

In both we had favourable fixtures, in the world cup we got easily beaten twice by Belgium, barely scrapped past Colombia and lost to an inferior Croatian team. Most of our goals came from set pieces and the football wasn't very good.

 

In the Euros, the Germany game aside which was very impressive, we had favourable fixtures again and couldn't beat a weak Italy side in the final.

 

I think I remember Bruce having a good cup run one year but we had the easiest draws ever and then once we came up against a good team, lost immediately. Does that make him a good manager then?

 

Southgate seems like a great guy but I don't rate him as a manager at all.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

We’ve had easy runs and lucks of the draw in the past and fucked it up, without getting within Extra-Time of a World Cup Final and a couple of penalty-kicks from winning the Euros.

 

One is luck, getting within a whisker twice in a row suggests he has something about him at that level.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Optimistic Nut

[Hanshithispantz]

We looked very strong in qualifying too. Three qualification runs without a hiccup now.

[Ste]

Both the Croatia and Italy games, we suffered from not taking our chances. I thought both games we started well and had a good first 45, then seemed to shrink in stature. To be expected with all the pressure, particularly that Italy game where you could feel the nervous energy from the stands. 

 

The entire Euros up to that point, aside from a spell in the Germany game where Pickford appeared to lose his nerve, we controlled most games and conceded 2 goals, 1 from open play. We played the tournament perfectly for me. 

 

It's far easier to get your team solid defensively and maintain a shape in the little time you have than to get them to play open and expansive attacking football.

 

Individual moments let us down more than anything Southgate does. The comparison to Bruce is ridiculous. Sacking Southgate couldn't be further from my mind currently, him and his team had me enjoying football while Bruce was capping off an utterly dreadful 14 years of Mike Ashley.

[WillingtonMag]

10 minutes ago, Ste said:

Both the Croatia and Italy games, we suffered from not taking our chances. I thought both games we started well and had a good first 45, then seemed to shrink in stature. To be expected with all the pressure, particularly that Italy game where you could feel the nervous energy from the stands. 

 

The entire Euros up to that point, aside from a spell in the Germany game where Pickford appeared to lose his nerve, we controlled most games and conceded 2 goals, 1 from open play. We played the tournament perfectly for me. 

 

It's far easier to get your team solid defensively and maintain a shape in the little time you have than to get them to play open and expansive attacking football.

 

Individual moments let us down more than anything Southgate does. The comparison to Bruce is ridiculous. Sacking Southgate couldn't be further from my mind currently, him and his team had me enjoying football while Bruce was capping off an utterly dreadful 14 years of Mike Ashley.

We didn't have a single shot on target against Italy in 90 minutes after scoring in the first 2 minutes...wasn't down to not taking chances at all it was down to how the manager set us up.

[Unbelievable]

1 hour ago, Flip said:

 

I mean we could argue for ages, and I here you, but I don't agree. In a way you are right, the Conference League etc is very good for smaller clubs, the same way the Nations League is good for smaller nations. However, your example forgets the fact that Liverpool, Real etc aren't playing the CL, Europa League and Conference League. If they were, no one would care about the Europa League or Conference League. 

 

This is evident by the fact that many teams are treating it like friendlies with their line-ups. Trying new formations and new players as preparation for the World Cup. I mean, it's like saying Messi winning the Finalissima is a major international trophy for him. It's not. I promise you, ask any European country if they'd switch qualifying for a major international tournament for winning the Nations League.

But that’s a bit of a false equivalence I would say. It’s like pointing out that top clubs in England would rather qualify for CL than win the FA Cup, which has been treated by many managers as a nice opportunity to give the stiffs and youngsters a run out since at least Wenger 20 odd years ago. Does that make the FA Cup irrelevant, or the cup final game insignificant? I wouldn’t say so at all. Going back to the Nations League, I think the timing here at the end of a long season is unfortunate, because at least some international managers definitely seem to place more value on it then they did meaningless friendlies. Because that would be and was for a long  time the alternative. Now at least teams play teams of similar strength and there is a promotion/relegation structure that adds interest and importance.

 

in any case, it’s fine if you don’t like it. I do happen to take an interest in the competitive element of it, and I doubt I am alone in that.

[Mike]

3 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Southgate can be frustrating as fuck on a matchday but he (and obviously the other staff) have pulled together the most harmonious England squad we've probably ever had 

 

There's a massive risk that we sack him and the whole thing falls apart. Unless it was like Graham Potter I cannot think of any definite imrovements who could carry on what Southgate has done?

 

Heard good things about this guy Steve Bruce. Seems pretty well liked. 1000 games in management as well!

[Hanshithispantz]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

Heard good things about this guy Steve Bruce. Seems pretty well liked. 1000 games in management as well!

Half a decade ago this would probably have been nailed on tbh

 

McLaren and fucking Allardyce man