madras Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 He's there on merit at the moment, paying very well and maybe benefitting from a more balamced team around him. My only worry with him is the rush of blood that leads to challenges like he did v Everton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 He's doing very well, and him being captain doesn't bother me in the slightest. Amazing what a good run of form will do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMLeazesender Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 I'll just let Eddie decide, he seems to know what he is doing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Has he showed effort? Yes, has he played better and looked more fit under Howe? Yes he has. Having said the above I still think he’s immobile and slow both on and off the ball. He’s too weak defensively for what he offers offensively. Hope we upgrade our CM enough in the summer so that he’s nowhere near the 1st team next season. IMHO I ideally don’t even want him on the bench for next season if we stay up. I understand that we won’t be signing that many players so I’m content with him being backup to Bruno at best. I know we are winning but I still see so many weaknesses in his game. Details here and there that will be massively improved on once we get one or two new CM in the summer. Players that have quality on the ball but can also run. That will improve us both defensively and offensively. Credit where it’s due though, he’s done reasonably well lately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 39 minutes ago, Ikon said: Has he showed effort? Yes, has he played better and looked more fit under Howe? Yes he has. Having said the above I still think he’s immobile and slow both on and off the ball. He’s too weak defensively for what he offers offensively. Hope we upgrade our CM enough in the summer so that he’s nowhere near the 1st team next season. IMHO I ideally don’t even want him on the bench for next season if we stay up. I understand that we won’t be signing that many players so I’m content with him being backup to Bruno at best. I know we are winning but I still see so many weaknesses in his game. Details here and there that will be massively improved on once we get one or two new CM in the summer. Players that have quality on the ball but can also run. That will improve us both defensively and offensively. Credit where it’s due though, he’s done reasonably well lately. I don't recognise the Shelvey I've seen play since just before Christmas from your post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, madras said: I don't recognise the Shelvey I've seen play since just before Christmas from your post. He has improved greatly but he’s still immobile and a liability. Only a few games ago he should have seen red for a stupid scissor tackle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Just now, Ikon said: He has improved greatly but he’s still immobile and a liability. Only a few games ago he should have seen red for a stupid scissor tackle. Totally agree about the red mist and I posted similar earlier, don't get the immobile bit though, goes against what I've actually watched. He even looks to have more pace making it appear that it wasn't lack of pace but lack of defensive thought that let opposition players run off him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) I get it but even just switching play effectively can be huge if you're set up right, not everything in football has to be some outrageous, defence splitting wonder ball. Pressing, one of the most effective tools in modern football, requiring virtually no actual skill with the ball, is another example of this. It's the same with Henderson under Klopp who has been vital for years despite everyone calling him shite (Henderson is obviously better than Shelvey I know). Edited February 27, 2022 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, madras said: Totally agree about the red mist and I posted similar earlier, don't get the immobile bit though, goes against what I've actually watched. He even looks to have more pace making it appear that it wasn't lack of pace but lack of defensive thought that let opposition players run off him. Fair enough mate. Personally I still think and see him chasing shadows too often. But imo it isn’t quite as obvious anymore since we are better in our tactical side of the game and our positioning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Just now, Ikon said: Fair enough mate. Personally I still think and see him chasing shadows too often. But imo it isn’t quite as obvious anymore since we are better in our tactical side of the game and our positioning. Yip, the big thing is, and this goes for a few of them, is this form permanent or temporary ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, madras said: Yip, the big thing is, and this goes for a few of them, is this form permanent or temporary ? aye difficult question. I think they genuinely are capable of this, but I doubt it’s sustainable in the long run. At least for some of them but not for everyone. Providing that we stay up we really need to get the balance right. Keep the spirit and morals up by not signing too many new players. Being ruthless but not in a too ruthless way if that makes any sense. We obviously will and need to strengthen but it’s equally important to keep the morals up. I say quality over quantity signings wise. Most importantly that the players we get in are proper good characters with the right mentality and winners attitude. How many teams through the years have been shite despite being good on paper? Only need to look at Everton now for example. Looked good and motivated against City but shite many other times. This is why I think a team need the likes of Targett for example. I really went off topic here talking about many things that has nothing to do with this. Having said the above I still think some of our players can be even better with time and better players around them. Growing in belief and quality. Good feeling about Howe at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 On 27/02/2022 at 11:46, madras said: Totally agree about the red mist and I posted similar earlier, don't get the immobile bit though, goes against what I've actually watched. He even looks to have more pace making it appear that it wasn't lack of pace but lack of defensive thought that let opposition players run off him. Fitness, just like most other players were shockingly out of shape under Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnonel Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) Not quite Joelinton redemption, but Jonjo deserves some credit. I hated him, but dislike him a lot less now. Keep learning and progressing and he might earn respect of the crowds Edited February 28, 2022 by arnonel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Man Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Totally despised him a few months ago and still don't trust him by any means but starting to look like this might not be a false dawn. He's been putting in the hard work fairly consistently, is making less glaring errors and just looks a lot sharper in general. Think it's a massive credit to Howe that he's been able to bring about such a transformation given Shelvey's obvious physical and mental shortcomings in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likelylad Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Tbf, i remember Howe specifically mentioned Shelvey early on. I thought he was just doing some basic man management to try and keep him engaged. However, he's clearly getting a decent enough tune of him to both their credits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 He is getting a decent tune out of him and massive credit to Howe. Will be interesting to see what he can do with a proper player in there replacing Shelvey further ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Howe has realised what many knew of Jonjo and players of his ilk - surround him with legs and he'll be grand. It's not terribly dissimilar at the top level to Pirlo at Juventus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Grand?? Pirlo… in the same sentence as Shelvey.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maze Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Pirlo will be getting called The Maned Shelvey in a few years time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Easy lads. I was not saying Shelvey is on the level of Pirlo - hence why I said 'at the top level'. The point is, if you're looking at their respective games they are both players that excel technically but don't offer much physically. The way Juventus offset that weakness was by having Arturo Vidal charging round with four lungs breaking it up and and Paul Pogba playing halfway between an 8 and a 10 - operating in the final third but able to drop deep and make it a more flat three when needed. That's exactly what Howe has done with Joelinton, Willock, and Shelvey. Now when I say 'he'll be grand' I mean he'll be sufficient for a team aiming to finish between 16th and 12th. The reason it's not sustainable long term is because Shelvey is not the level of Pirlo and the investment isn't worth the payoff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greydos Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 On 27/02/2022 at 10:51, madras said: Yip, the big thing is, and this goes for a few of them, is this form permanent or temporary ? This question is really: “Can Howe and the management team permanently get a tune out of Shelvey to match where we want to finish each season?” All the evidence at present points to back Howe’s judgment over our assessments of players. I’m comfortable if Howe wants Shelvey to stay the next 2 years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 After Bruno came on I thought Shelley made a couple of positional errors. Twice I think he was resting a bit, nothing wrong with that per se, but you have to rest in position and he wasn’t. He was not central where he has to rest as the deep CM. He was on the left and given the ball was with Brentford on the right I thought that was the 1st time I’ve noticed him make a definite tactical error since Bruno showed up. He was slow to react and just kind of ambled more to the middle. Up to now I think he’s been pretty good tbh (last 6 games) but those couple of little lapses made me wonder if that’s the crack that Bruno squeezes through to start a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 He's played well, I'll give him that, but with Bruno in the squad its time to move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Jinx Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Keep playing him, when he does make a stupid tackle and gets sent off, that opens the door for Bruno to take his place. It's quite obvious you cannot drop either Joelinton or Willock from the starting 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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