quayside Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 So we set up: Murphy Gayle Atsu Diame (or Perez) Ritchie Shelvey Dumett Clark Lascelles Anita/Yedlin/Jesus Darlow For a home match - is that worth a shot? I have never managed a Champs League winning side - or even come close. But as regards what I (and many others) have suggested, if not why not? We have been humped at SJP by several teams below us so something is not right. Football intellectuals on this forum talk me through it. BTW I love Rafa etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 If only we could have appointed a world class manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Just going to let the man get on with it and not piss and moan personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Toon Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Somewhere down a dark back lane lies one man who thinks he would do a better job. A man who proclaims himself to be the best manager in the league... EVER. http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03281/carver2_3281254b.jpg No thanks, leave this to Rafa. His month is approaching. The month he's been banging on about all season. April. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh. Rafa Benitez is our manager. Our manager under a Mike Ashley regime. Predeccesors include Kinnear, Hughton, Pardew and McClaren. Just let that sink in for a minute. He's a helluva problem to have. This is hitting the nail on the head (although I think you were being ironic about Rafa !).....the problem is Ashley - he cannot just support the manager. If Rafa had been able to sign Cairney or another midfielder in Jan we would have looked(and been)a much better side at home since. Our m/f stinks when Shelvey has an off day because Colback is never going to help in the positive sense and Diame has been hopeless since the ACN. Rafa wouldn't have been under any scrutiny had we been able to strengthen the squad in Jan - and although I do often bring up KKs 92/93 team as a comparison, we have to acknowledge that KK was able to get Andy Cole and Sellars in the run-in to promotion and they made a hell of a difference to our play. Ashley has blocked Rafa from doing something similar and KK also didn't have the Transfer Window to cope with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rafa is getting us used to how we will have to play next season should we go up. Even in the home games next year we are not going to be in control of the game, we are often going to be on the back foot and every result we get will be ground out. This is the reason why we play like we do at home, because if we went into games thinking we can control next season then we will get torn to shreds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rafa is getting us used to how we will have to play next season should we go up. Even in the home games next year we are not going to be in control of the game, we are often going to be on the back foot and every result we get will be ground out. This is the reason why we play like we do at home, because if we went into games thinking we can control next season then we will get torn to shreds. We CANNOT go into a PL season with many of this side....the m/f especially will have to be reconstructed as there is no pace in it and the only creativity comes from Shelvey. Question marks about the defence, esp at CB and LB and up front also ; Will Gayle do the biz in the PL, who will come in to replace Mitro..? Murphy is a great squad man but too old to play many full games. We WILL get taken apart if we approach the PL season with this team - whether or not we play cautiously at SJP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I'm of the thinking that hes the best thing to happen to us since Sir Bobby but can also see that he is not without his flaws (as no manager in world football would be) I would be interested though to hear what peoples views and opinions would be if we went on a bad run and missed out on automatic promotion, would the Rafa can do no wrong crowd still be as accommodating? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 We won't like. 3 maybe 4 starters and we'll be fine. CM, LM, AM/CF, Defender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I'm of the thinking that hes the best thing to happen to us since Sir Bobby but can also see that he is not without his flaws (as no manager in world football would be) I would be interested though to hear what peoples views and opinions would be if we went on a bad run and missed out on automatic promotion, would the Rafa can do no wrong crowd still be as accommodating? Who and where are the Rafa can do no wrong crowd? Maybe people remember the absolute shite we've been trough and think nit picking is not the best thing to do and the negativity serves no purpose. The negativity is way out of proportion to where we've been and where we are.I said I'd rather go down with Rafa in charge than stay up with the crap we've been through. Not everything is perfect but we're still in a very good position and I can live with a few imperfections. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's not nit-picking. It's genuine constructive criticism and Rafa looks to subbornly sticking to his way at home. We get 7 points from 3 really tricky fixtures. We expected to open our legs and relax away into the final sprint. Instead we've picked up 1 point from 6 and our rivals are back on our shoulders again. That's annoying. A Newcastle manager isn't going to lose 1-3 at home to Fulham and escape criticism. If there were any justice in the world it would've been 1-4 with a teenager scoring a hat-trick. It's appaling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Spot on that Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's not nit-picking. It's genuine constructive criticism and Rafa looks to subbornly sticking to his way at home. We get 7 points from 3 really tricky fixtures. We expected to open our legs and relax away into the final sprint. Instead we've picked up 1 point from 6 and our rivals are back on our shoulders again. That's annoying. A Newcastle manager isn't going to lose 1-3 at home to Fulham and escape criticism. If there were any justice in the world it would've been 1-4 with a teenager scoring a hat-trick. It's appaling. The result itself is indeed very dissappointing but your speaking for yourself if you were expecting us to open our legs to a relaxed finish. It's a tough place and we just about have superior quality. What's more I know that any valid criticism of Rafa isn't just going to be dismissed like the pond slime before him would do and keep spewing shite, he'll act on it. I don think he should explore the 442 option from time to time. Seems an easy way to wrong foot teams who think they'll have us sussed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I'm of the thinking that hes the best thing to happen to us since Sir Bobby but can also see that he is not without his flaws (as no manager in world football would be) I would be interested though to hear what peoples views and opinions would be if we went on a bad run and missed out on automatic promotion, would the Rafa can do no wrong crowd still be as accommodating? It isn't about Rafa can do no wrong, for me I have doubts about whether these players are equipped to the job if they were set up differently. To go more attacking would need more pace and energy in midfield, ruthless strikers and a defence which can pass the ball out and cope with playing a high line. A defensive midfielder who can cover the ground quickly to close down the spaces would also be essential. Is Colback that man? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The bed wetting after every defeat or poor performance, although clearly way over the top, is to be expected given the high stakes involved. Its a minority by the way. The vast majority, especially the match day going fans, well the sun shines out of Rafa's arse and he's up there with KK almost as a messiah like figure and that is the way it should be. For the bed wetters, I think its down to frustration because of expectation and the knowledge that we probably have the best squad with some of the best players and of course a world-class manager in Rafa. At home there is no doubt we should be doing much better, much much better in fact. We arent and that's a legitimate worry and could effect whether we go up automatically or not. If we don't go up, that would be it for us as a long-term viable thing basically. If we have been a shell of a club the past decade, see what not going up would do. Rafa would go, Gayle, Shelvey et al and I could honestly see 20K or so dropping out. Its up or bust. With that in mind, though, that is all it should be about now - just going up. fuck performances, record points totals, more possession, more shots just fucking get up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I'm of the thinking that hes the best thing to happen to us since Sir Bobby but can also see that he is not without his flaws (as no manager in world football would be) I would be interested though to hear what peoples views and opinions would be if we went on a bad run and missed out on automatic promotion, would the Rafa can do no wrong crowd still be as accommodating? It isn't about Rafa can do no wrong, for me I have doubts about whether these players are equipped to the job if they were set up differently. To go more attacking would need more pace and energy in midfield, ruthless strikers and a defence which can pass the ball out and cope with playing a high line. A defensive midfielder who can cover the ground quickly to close down the spaces would also be essential. Is Colback that man? Absolutely not, and I agree I think the biggest limitation this season is the players, both ability and mentality in certain situations, I also think complacency has been a big factor across the season but lets not forget, Rafa was given 50-60 million to spend in the summer and has brought in a fair chunk of this team, hes done alright but I can't help but feel hes missed a trick by not bringing in extra or different players especially in the midfield department. It appeared early in the season that Shelvey wasn't going to be a nailed on starter, so did he really think Colback and Hayden would work for quite a large part of the season? Yes he should have been allowed to spend again in January but we shouldn't have even started the season with the limited midfield options we did IMO. Whatever people may say when challenged on here, there's a fair few who think we shouldn't criticise anything Rafa does because we've had it worse, hes one of the best managers we've had or likely to have but if he makes a mistake or does something wrong its OK to talk about it, its not like its being screamed in his face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's not nit-picking. It's genuine constructive criticism and Rafa looks to subbornly sticking to his way at home. We get 7 points from 3 really tricky fixtures. We expected to open our legs and relax away into the final sprint. Instead we've picked up 1 point from 6 and our rivals are back on our shoulders again. That's annoying. A Newcastle manager isn't going to lose 1-3 at home to Fulham and escape criticism. If there were any justice in the world it would've been 1-4 with a teenager scoring a hat-trick. It's appaling. The result itself is indeed very dissappointing but your speaking for yourself if you were expecting us to open our legs to a relaxed finish. It's a tough place and we just about have superior quality. What's more I know that any valid criticism of Rafa isn't just going to be dismissed like the pond slime before him would do and keep spewing s****, he'll act on it. I don think he should explore the 442 option from time to time. Seems an easy way to wrong foot teams who think they'll have us sussed. Lots of people were talking about potentially beating the points tally set the last time we were in this division after the Huddersfield game. Win 6 out of 11 or something and we are easily up. Seemed straight forward then. It's now win 6 out of 9 to be supremely confident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's not nit-picking. It's genuine constructive criticism and Rafa looks to subbornly sticking to his way at home. We get 7 points from 3 really tricky fixtures. We expected to open our legs and relax away into the final sprint. Instead we've picked up 1 point from 6 and our rivals are back on our shoulders again. That's annoying. A Newcastle manager isn't going to lose 1-3 at home to Fulham and escape criticism. If there were any justice in the world it would've been 1-4 with a teenager scoring a hat-trick. It's appaling. The result itself is indeed very dissappointing but your speaking for yourself if you were expecting us to open our legs to a relaxed finish. It's a tough place and we just about have superior quality. What's more I know that any valid criticism of Rafa isn't just going to be dismissed like the pond slime before him would do and keep spewing s****, he'll act on it. I don think he should explore the 442 option from time to time. Seems an easy way to wrong foot teams who think they'll have us sussed. Lots of people were talking about potentially beating the points tally set the last time we were in this division after the Huddersfield game. Win 6 out of 11 or something and we are easily up. Seemed straight forward then. It's now win 6 out of 9 to be supremely confident. Aye and they were daft to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's not nit-picking. It's genuine constructive criticism and Rafa looks to subbornly sticking to his way at home. We get 7 points from 3 really tricky fixtures. We expected to open our legs and relax away into the final sprint. Instead we've picked up 1 point from 6 and our rivals are back on our shoulders again. That's annoying. A Newcastle manager isn't going to lose 1-3 at home to Fulham and escape criticism. If there were any justice in the world it would've been 1-4 with a teenager scoring a hat-trick. It's appaling. Tactics didn't lose us the game. Have you even seen it? We lost the game because we couldn't pass the ball to our own players, we couldn't win the ball back and we couldn't create space. Our movement with and without the ball was appalling and they're not tactis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Is the managers only responsibility to give players tactics? I never absolve players of personal responsibility for poor performances but also the manager takes some of the load. We lost due to fundamental problems with the teams performance. Not individual mistakes. Rafa takes some of the blame. He's responsible for the teams performance. The team underperforms at home. Rafa is partly responsible for that, he's made mistakes and continues to do so at home. That's all anyone is trying to say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I'm of the thinking that hes the best thing to happen to us since Sir Bobby but can also see that he is not without his flaws (as no manager in world football would be) I would be interested though to hear what peoples views and opinions would be if we went on a bad run and missed out on automatic promotion, would the Rafa can do no wrong crowd still be as accommodating? It isn't about Rafa can do no wrong, for me I have doubts about whether these players are equipped to the job if they were set up differently. To go more attacking would need more pace and energy in midfield, ruthless strikers and a defence which can pass the ball out and cope with playing a high line. A defensive midfielder who can cover the ground quickly to close down the spaces would also be essential. Is Colback that man? Absolutely not, and I agree I think the biggest limitation this season is the players, both ability and mentality in certain situations, I also think complacency has been a big factor across the season but lets not forget, Rafa was given 50-60 million to spend in the summer and has brought in a fair chunk of this team, hes done alright but I can't help but feel hes missed a trick by not bringing in extra or different players especially in the midfield department. It appeared early in the season that Shelvey wasn't going to be a nailed on starter, so did he really think Colback and Hayden would work for quite a large part of the season? Yes he should have been allowed to spend again in January but we shouldn't have even started the season with the limited midfield options we did IMO. Whatever people may say when challenged on here, there's a fair few who think we shouldn't criticise anything Rafa does because we've had it worse, hes one of the best managers we've had or likely to have but if he makes a mistake or does something wrong its OK to talk about it, its not like its being screamed in his face. None of us know if he wanted more or different players in the Summer and nobody could possibly know how well the players we did bring in would work out either individually or as a team. As far as criticism goes, I think a lot of what we are seeing is reactionary and a lot of it is unfair and unhelpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 We've the 7 best home record in the league. It's not reactionary. Ashley is the reason why we won't maximise our potential as a club. With or without Rafa. To make promotion certain we should've signed a couple more players aye.. but it's a little irrelevant as we put ourselves in a position to get promoted with some space and now it's tight again. Imo we are 2 players off a first XI that would stay up in the PL anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Wondering just how important to everyone this "7th best home record in the league" is? Personally I'm not bothered about it as long as we go up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Out of interest were we top of the away games table last time we were in the Championship? Obviously we'll have been top of the home games table having not lost a game at home but think we dropped more points away from home than this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Out of interest were we top of the away games table last time we were in the Championship? Obviously we'll have been top of the home games table having not lost a game at home but think we dropped more points away from home than this season. Yes 43 points away from home last time. West Brom in second got 40. 42 so far this time with 4 more to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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