Other clubs' transfers

[MidfieldGeneral]

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Would his ban not stop him playing in Brazil then?

[Yorkie]

6 hours ago, ponsaelius said:

 

Age and wages.

 

Not having a go at you in particular but it's always surprising to me how many people are still struggling with the economic element of signings in the modern era.

 

Paulinha might be at his peak now but in 4/5 years time at end of his contract he will be 32/33 so becomes an effective dead weight financially. Still worth it to a club like Bayern who have the money to burn and are looking for instant impact.

 

Anderson will likely improve or at least be the same by year 4 of his contract, and will be only 25. Value either the same or more at that point. His wage package will be very reasonable for a PL player hence the high fee is more reasonable for a club to pay.

 

The economics of the market is why we are able to find interest in our young players but almost none for those in their late 20s - even if they're good.

 

All of that is true but I can't believe the Anderson transfer passed the scrutiny of a fair market value test.   I've a hunch that we might not have heard the last about that deal, particularly with that random goalie coming the other way. Such is the determination to make an example of us. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

£35m for a young Englishman who has done quite well in PL doesn't seem arguable at all to me. It's a bit expensive but hardly ridiculous. 

[MidfieldGeneral]

13 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Would his ban not stop him playing in Brazil then?

You'd definitely think the only chance of him going there is if any possible ban only covers Europe. 

[r0cafella]

20 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

All of that is true but I can't believe the Anderson transfer passed the scrutiny of a fair market value test.   I've a hunch that we might not have heard the last about that deal, particularly with that random goalie coming the other way. Such is the determination to make an example of us. 

No such test exists as it wasn’t a related party transfer. 

[LFEE]

26 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

All of that is true but I can't believe the Anderson transfer passed the scrutiny of a fair market value test.   I've a hunch that we might not have heard the last about that deal, particularly with that random goalie coming the other way. Such is the determination to make an example of us. 

Surely not much different to Spurs signing a championship player from Leeds for £40m who’s had far less experience.

[Kanji]

Anderson had 50 odd PL appearances for a club who qualified for CL and finished top 10 the following, made cup and champions league appearances too and is young with time on his side. About time our own fans stop talking so much shit about our own players. 

[Yorkie]

 Steady on. I always liked Anderson but the fee is obscene, whilst coincidentally also being just high enough to rescue us from the PSR abyss. You could argue that spending that amount on a complete unknown quantity like Gray is more explicable than spending it on someone who's played loads but shown little evidence that they're gonna reach the top. 

 

If there's a mechanism to scrutinise the deal - if not FMV, then something else - would anyone be surprised if it happened? Ornstein said as much on that podcast the other day. 

[r0cafella]

6 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 Steady on. I always liked Anderson but the fee is obscene, whilst coincidentally also being just high enough to rescue us from the PSR abyss. You could argue that spending that amount on a complete unknown quantity like Gray is more explicable than spending it on someone who's played loads but shown little evidence that they're gonna reach the top. 

 

If there's a mechanism to scrutinise the deal - if not FMV, then something else - would anyone be surprised if it happened? Ornstein said as much on that podcast the other day. 

Ornstein was speaking with this north London hat on. As I’ve stated several times the premier league would find itself in a very deep crisis if it attempted to block these deals, they simply don’t have any form of robust rules to stop them. We the deal for Anderson has been completed and announce we can infer from that they have ratified it. 
 

It’s important to remember that the league has already over reached on an unprecedented scale already which has led to Man city’s legal action, they would need remarkably temerity to consider blocking a UK business from disposing an asset to another uk business. 
 

TLDR.

 

The media noise about these deals is just that, noise if they want to attempt to stop them they will require a new rule to do so and they are already flying close the wind. 

[Yorkie]

Aye hopefully not. For the record I've absolutely no issue with us finding loopholes and creative ways to get around a set of rules that are, at best, flawed and, at worst, unfair. 

 

Speaking of Ornstein; clearly the guy is as well-connected and reliable as can be when it comes to gossip but fuck me he talks like a right knob. Some of those Athletic podcasts are a grueling listen when they're essentially just having a pretend conversation; taking it in turns to read their recently penned articles. Some of them are better at it than others but his deliberate 'erms' - as if he can't find the word for 'Arsenal' - to make it sound more natural make me want to cave the speaker in.

[Zero]

Anderson is a complicated case. I find him very similar to Milner - lack the physical tools to beat opponents, but occasionally showing glimpse of excellent technique. He does have potential to beat his value, especially if he is playing for Forest where he should be a starter.

 

He may never become a 35m rated player if he stay. This transfer in hindsight probably is a win for all parties involved

 

This won’t be challenged by EPL. He may already shine for Forest before end of August and no one else will say this is overpriced.

 

 

Edited July 4 by Zero

[r0cafella]

13 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Aye hopefully not. For the record I've absolutely no issue with us finding loopholes and creative ways to get around a set of rules that are, at best, flawed and, at worst, unfair. 

 

Speaking of Ornstein; clearly the guy is as well-connected and reliable as can be when it comes to gossip but fuck me he talks like a right knob. Some of those Athletic podcasts are a grueling listen when they're essentially just having a pretend conversation; taking it in turns to read their recently penned articles. Some of them are better at it than others but his deliberate 'erms' - as if he can't find the word for 'Arsenal' - to make it sound more natural make me want to cave the speaker in.

He’s a politician, I was surprised when he spoke to scathingly by his standards about these deals. When it comes to his actual opinions they veer between just blind backing of the current order of things and hardcore club hoop licking. Don’t get me wrong he’s obviously the absolute gold standard when it comes to transfer news but it’s obvious where his loyalty is. 
 

And yeah, don’t worry about any of these deals absolutely nothing is going to happen, the most they can do is find a way to close this moving forwards but it won’t be easy to do so. 

[54]

For the record, the Anderson fee is basically the going rate these days, Archie Gray went for £30m and he had 0 Premier League experience.

[r0cafella]

Just now, 54 said:

For the record, the Anderson fee is basically the going rate these days, Archie Gray went for £30m and he had 0 Premier League experience.

Absolutely if you think about what we paid for Gordon at that time as well, his goal and assist record was poor at that point too. 
 

If Anderson were to go and have a season like Gordon just did we would be screaming murder and Forest would be talking about the bargain they got. All transfers involving younger players come with a large degree of uncertainty. 

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, 54 said:

For the record, the Anderson fee is basically the going rate these days, Archie Gray went for £30m and he had 0 Premier League experience.

 

Archie Gray is unreal though, and just turned 18.  Anderson is bog standard and is 3 years older.

 

It's not the going rate at all.  It's definitely PSR fuckery, and if it can be exploited I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

 

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

Absolutely if you think about what we paid for Gordon at that time as well, his goal and assist record was poor at that point too.

 

No way. Was clear Gordon was class IMO. £45m will turn out to be a bargain for him. Anderson will end up at Norwich for £10m in a few years.

[r0cafella]

4 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Archie Gray is unreal though, and just turned 18.  Anderson is bog standard and is 3 years older.

 

It's not the going rate at all.  It's definitely PSR fuckery, and if it can be exploited I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

 

 

No way. Was clear Gordon was class IMO. £45m will turn out to be a bargain for him. Anderson will end up at Norwich for £10m in a few years.

Maybe, maybe not but there’s potential for you, it’s extremely difficult to value. 

[Nucasol]

1 hour ago, r0cafella said:

Ornstein was speaking with this north London hat on. As I’ve stated several times the premier league would find itself in a very deep crisis if it attempted to block these deals, they simply don’t have any form of robust rules to stop them. We the deal for Anderson has been completed and announce we can infer from that they have ratified it. 
 

It’s important to remember that the league has already over reached on an unprecedented scale already which has led to Man city’s legal action, they would need remarkably temerity to consider blocking a UK business from disposing an asset to another uk business. 
 

TLDR.

 

The media noise about these deals is just that, noise if they want to attempt to stop them they will require a new rule to do so and they are already flying close the wind. 

Just listened to it now. Ornstein can stick it up his hoop. He champions the ShitHouse ladder pulling up clubs, he can bleat all he wants on behalf of his client clubs but the PL are one misstep away from a second lawsuit with their members.

 

One thing he mentioned is that the Premier League vets all these deals, so will have ultimately signed it off. Heard the “review the club’s communications” point - you’re on a sticky wicket if you go down that route.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

Just listened to it now. Ornstein can stick it up his hoop. He champions the ShitHouse ladder pulling up clubs, he can bleat all he wants on behalf of his client clubs but the PL are one misstep away from a second lawsuit with their members.

 

One thing he mentioned is that the Premier League vets all these deals, so will have ultimately signed it off. Heard the “review the club’s communications” point - you’re on a sticky wicket if you go down that route.

Aye absolutely staggering levels of over reach if they attempt that. They are already straddling a line. 
 

the way the league has gone is quite depressing to be honest, Scudamore would always build consensus but these clowns just do what they please as long as they 14 on board they plough on. 

[Guest]

£30m for a 21 year old top 8 squad player is about the going rate surely like. 

[54]

35 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Archie Gray is unreal though, and just turned 18.  Anderson is bog standard and is 3 years older.

 

It's not the going rate at all.  It's definitely PSR fuckery, and if it can be exploited I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

 

If it was exploitative and it was obvious I'd state it, take away the name, and say an unknown player had these facts:

 

• A 21 year old.
• Has several years of his contract remaining.
• He plays for a top 8 club, and played in the Champions League last season.
• Has over 50 Premier League appearances.
• Was being touted for an England call up before his back injury.
• Is English which comes at a premium anyway.
• He is tactically versatile, and can play CM, LW, CAM, LWB & CDM.
• Has stats like this:
• 

 

He's worth around £30m like, especially when players like Lewis Hall, Archie Gray etc are going for similar.

 

 

Edited July 4 by 54

[KaKa]

12 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

£30m for a 21 year old top 8 squad player is about the going rate surely like. 

 

Said it before on here already (and even showed the images), but all these clubs also lean a lot on football data analytics, and Anderson comes out very well on them. It's based on him playing in the Premier League too.

 

That would be a huge part of things.

[Froggy]

10 minutes ago, 54 said:

He's worth around £30m like, especially when players like Lewis Hall, Archie Gray etc are going for similar.

 

Not going to pretend to know anywhere close to what you lads do about him. Purely from an eye test I didn't think he looked to be near any of the other players you've mentioned in terms of current ability never mind potential. I was shocked at the fee to be honest.  

[Rod]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Not going to pretend to know anywhere close to what you lads do about him. Purely from an eye test I didn't think he looked to be near any of the other players you've mentioned in terms of current ability never mind potential. I was shocked at the fee to be honest.  

So you know nowt about Anderson but apparently are an expert on 18 year old Archie Gray?  I can honestly say, I haven't got a clue who Archie Gray is.

[r0cafella]

We can ignore @Froggyand anyone else on this, Forest thought he was worth it hence they paid. It’s not like it was a straight swap, they paid a significant amount for a player they obviously rate at 35m.