Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Heron]

You have to remember tens of thousands of match day going fans only see us from going, they aren’t on forums, social media or maybe don’t even watch much footy outside of us so they don’t over analyse things or see things from many perspectives. If they see a player making a mistake they will have a go. I think in general, especially this season, fans by and large have been great and you cannot blame anyone for the odd dissent or show of frustration. It’s the numpties that will slag Lascelles off and call him shit for example if he makes a mistake. Thankfully they appear to be in the minority.

Aye. That's a fair point like. Booing the team off too is just idiotic. We all get pissed off and frustrated and kick off but to say people are shit or boo them off is just pointless, when they're giving it their all.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I'd love to see what would happen if Rafa would encourage this lot to "express themselves"

 

Well we all know it'd be a massacre, and not the good kind. What Rafa is doing right now is absolutely spot on and the only realistic way for us to survive.

 

All these cries for attacking football or "going for it" really frustrate me. We aren't good enough to take care of the ball. We make a lot of easy mistakes controlling the ball or passing the ball. If lose your shape and make that mistake in transition several times a match then you're always looking like conceding. The shape and rigidness is what's keeping us a live and covering for those mistakes.

 

There is going for it and going gun ho. No one expects us to go all out attack. But there should be a balance. Second half we literally dropped back and conceded territory, possession and the game to them and when we did equalise the game was begging out for us to go back at them and bury them and we didn’t.

 

I’m of the opinion that someone like Hughton for example would have us doing just as well (or bad whatever way you want to look at it) with the same players, but we’d play better football and not be so negative, especially at home.

 

Now that’s not me saying I’d swap Rafa for Hughton before anyone starts or that I think Rafa is shit. I just don’t buy into this whole we have to play this way because the players are crap.

 

First half we did everything but score. Why couldn’t we play the same way in the second half? You cannot say because we don’t have the players or if we did we’d get beat. We actually conceded and looked like losing by playing the opposite to how we played in the first half. We were not all out attacking or gung ho on the first half, we were on the front foot though and caused them problems and again, did everything but score.

 

Such tactics have cost us at home dearly and if we go down, we can look at that as one of the main reasons.

[Kasper]

I'd love to see what would happen if Rafa would encourage this lot to "express themselves"

 

Well we all know it'd be a massacre, and not the good kind. What Rafa is doing right now is absolutely spot on and the only realistic way for us to survive.

 

All these cries for attacking football or "going for it" really frustrate me. We aren't good enough to take care of the ball. We make a lot of easy mistakes controlling the ball or passing the ball. If lose your shape and make that mistake in transition several times a match then you're always looking like conceding. The shape and rigidness is what's keeping us a live and covering for those mistakes.

 

There is going for it and going gun ho. No one expects us to go all out attack. But there should be a balance. Second half we literally dropped back and conceded territory, possession and the game to them and when we did equalise the game was begging out for us to go back at them and bury them and we didn’t.

 

I’m of the opinion that someone like Hughton for example would have us doing just as well (or bad whatever way you want to look at it) with the same players, but we’d play better football and not be so negative, especially at home.

 

Now that’s not me saying I’d swap Rafa for Hughton before anyone starts or that I think Rafa is shit. I just don’t buy into this whole we have to play this way because the players are crap.

 

First half we did everything but score. Why couldn’t we play the same way in the second half? You cannot say because we don’t have the players or if we did we’d get beat. We actually conceded and looked like losing by playing the opposite to how we played in the first half. We were not all out attacking or gung ho on the first half, we were on the front foot though and caused them problems and again, did everything but score.

 

Such tactics have cost us at home dearly and if we go down, we can look at that as one of the main reasons.

 

Like someone just said in the match thread: Do you think Newcastle is alone on the pitch? There's this other team there who can change things and improve their game.

 

We were dropping back first half as well. It was clearly a plan to get some space behind their defense and use our fast players to get there when we won the ball. Maybe they changed something that made it harder for us. I don't know. But clearly it isnt as simple as "why couldnt the second half be like the first".

[STM]

HTT we dont have the capability of opening up against teams. It's nothing to do with tactics whatsoever.

 

You can't attack more without defending less IMO and in this scenario we can't afford to play any more expansive.

 

One of my big gripes about the criticism of Rafa after the city game, was the idea that we were deliberately conceeding possesion against them, as apposed to the reality, which was that we couldn't get the ball of them.

[mighty__mag]

You have to remember tens of thousands of match day going fans only see us from going, they aren’t on forums, social media or maybe don’t even watch much footy outside of us so they don’t over analyse things or see things from many perspectives. If they see a player making a mistake they will have a go. I think in general, especially this season, fans by and large have been great and you cannot blame anyone for the odd dissent or show of frustration. It’s the numpties that will slag Lascelles off and call him shit for example if he makes a mistake. Thankfully they appear to be in the minority.

Aye. That's a fair point like. Booing the team off too is just idiotic. We all get pissed off and frustrated and kick off but to say people are shit or boo them off is just pointless, when they're giving it their all.

 

That can sometimes be their only call collectively to say to the players try harder, at the end of 90 mins its because they are obviously pissed they gave their weekend up and paid for a poor performance, but at half time it can work in the fans favour if the players buck up and come out in the second half and respond.

 

I know how I would respond to boos as a player. But it also has a bad effect on some sensitive types, I guess thats down to Raffa and Jamaal to bring them together. Lascelles keeps mentioning although we might not see it, theyre a tight group.

[Guest neesy111]

I think we could had opened up vs Swansea mind.  Their first 11 was worse than ours on paper, probably the only time that's happened this season.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I'd love to see what would happen if Rafa would encourage this lot to "express themselves"

 

Well we all know it'd be a massacre, and not the good kind. What Rafa is doing right now is absolutely spot on and the only realistic way for us to survive.

 

All these cries for attacking football or "going for it" really frustrate me. We aren't good enough to take care of the ball. We make a lot of easy mistakes controlling the ball or passing the ball. If lose your shape and make that mistake in transition several times a match then you're always looking like conceding. The shape and rigidness is what's keeping us a live and covering for those mistakes.

 

There is going for it and going gun ho. No one expects us to go all out attack. But there should be a balance. Second half we literally dropped back and conceded territory, possession and the game to them and when we did equalise the game was begging out for us to go back at them and bury them and we didn’t.

 

I’m of the opinion that someone like Hughton for example would have us doing just as well (or bad whatever way you want to look at it) with the same players, but we’d play better football and not be so negative, especially at home.

 

Now that’s not me saying I’d swap Rafa for Hughton before anyone starts or that I think Rafa is s***. I just don’t buy into this whole we have to play this way because the players are crap.

 

First half we did everything but score. Why couldn’t we play the same way in the second half? You cannot say because we don’t have the players or if we did we’d get beat. We actually conceded and looked like losing by playing the opposite to how we played in the first half. We were not all out attacking or gung ho on the first half, we were on the front foot though and caused them problems and again, did everything but score.

 

Such tactics have cost us at home dearly and if we go down, we can look at that as one of the main reasons.

 

Like someone just said in the match thread: Do you think Newcastle is alone on the pitch? There's this other team there who can change things and improve their game.

 

We were dropping back first half as well. It was clearly a plan to get some space behind their defense and use our fast players to get there when we won the ball. Maybe they changed something that made it harder for us. I don't know. But clearly it isnt as simple as "why couldnt the second half be like the first".

 

We are at home, the onus is on us, they were well happy with a point from minute one.  By doing what we did in the second half we allowed them back into it. Again had we played the same way or more importantly tried to as we did in the first half, we run out comfortable winners and put another nail in their coffin.

 

I understand the opposition can change things to change their own game which can effect things, but we clearly and this is clearly the plan, changed how we played or approached the second half which had a negative effect on us and a positive one on them which ended up costing us all 3 points and almost a point.

 

I just don’t get it it, it’s nonsense really.

 

Hey lads, you did everything but score in the first half, but in the second I want yours to stop pressing, drop back deeper and launch it long because we will get in behind them...

 

Er we did that many a time in the first half despite them sitting very deep.

 

That second half is inexcusable and fans have a right to get pissed off with us seemingly happy with a point, at home, against the worst team in the division who on minute 45 with a corner were time wasting.

 

After we equalised we should have went at them and they would have folded like a pack of cards, but we didn’t.

[STM]

I think we could had opened up vs Swansea mind.  Their first 11 was worse than ours on paper, probably the only time that's happened this season.

 

You saw what happened at the end of the second half though? We lost the ball in a dangerous area and nearly conceded because we didn't have the quality to maintain the pressure.

[STM]

HTT, I don't think Rafa changed the game plan at half time. I think they did.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

HTT we dont have the capability of opening up against teams. It's nothing to do with tactics whatsoever.

 

You can't attack more without defending less IMO and in this scenario we can't afford to play any more expansive.

 

One of my big gripes about the criticism of Rafa after the city game, was the idea that we were deliberately conceeding possesion against them, as apposed to the reality, which was that we couldn't get the ball of them.

 

We opened them up time and time again in the first half so that’s bull shit. This is Swansea we are talking about, the one side where we are better than. Not man fucking city.

 

Let’s just get this straight.

 

First half we played a pressing game, high tempo and were quite high up the pitch. As a result we created many chances and had them penned in and were unlucky not to go in at least a goal up.

 

Second half we dropped 20 yards back, stopped pressing, launched it long and conceded possession.

 

WHY?

 

They did nowt to force that, nothing.

 

That was our tactics second half. Seemingly to draw them out to hit them over the top and on the break. Well that’s bull shit because we were doing that in the first half.

 

You can not defend that second half, the tactics nor the approach.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

HTT, I don't think Rafa changed the game plan at half time. I think they did.

 

Of course he did, as soon as we kicked off we dropped back and started launching it long. Perez dropped deeper and our pressing game stopped. They did fuck all to change the game second half after kick-off. They were content with a point. By doing what we did though they started seeing more of the ball and thought fucking hell, they too are happy with a point. Let’s see what we can do we may nick this and low and behold they scored.

[Kasper]

I'll watch the start of the second half later again but I'd bet decent money that we're not any deeper by default. Obviously you're pushed back if you keep loosing the ball and opposition finds space in your defense and manages to keep posession.

 

I think you're just very wrong on this one.

[STM]

I'm not having that like. We were worse in the second half but I don't think Rafa changed anything and I stand by that.

 

I was openly critical of him not changing things before they scored, as you could see it coming and also critical of his decision not to bring Murphy on.

 

Other than that, I don't think he could have done anything differently.

 

Edit: What Kaspar said.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think we could had opened up vs Swansea mind.  Their first 11 was worse than ours on paper, probably the only time that's happened this season.

 

You saw what happened at the end of the second half though? We lost the ball in a dangerous area and nearly conceded because we didn't have the quality to maintain the pressure.

 

Oh come on for fuck sake man. We didn’t have the quality to maintain pressure? Have you heard yourself, seriously? We pressured the fuck out of them in the first half man. They were and are piss poor, worse than us, much worse. We may have lost the ball and they may have scored from it but that’s got fuck all to do with us not having quality to pressure them. Sometimes on a game that can happen. We did the same to Man City, did they lack the quality to maintain pressure?

 

It’s quite simple, we stopped playing the way we did on the first half which saw us get lots of joy and had we kept playing that way, we would have ran out comfortable winners. We inexplicably stopped playing that way because Rafa in his wisdom thought we would be able to nick it on the counter or draw them out. And then they scored and we had to change it again and then it become a game of cat and mouse. We get an equaliser and what do we do? We settle for not losing.

 

Trust his players much? Does he fuck, well sorry, but I don’t trust you Rafa at home. The points lost don’t lie.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I'll watch the start of the second half later again but I'd bet decent money that we're not any deeper by default. Obviously you're pushed back if you keep loosing the ball and opposition finds space in your defense and manages to keep posession.

 

I think you're just very wrong on this one.

 

We definately dropped back and off. They didn’t force that on us. It’s a common theme of ours at home man so no need to rewatch or think this is an isolated thing. On.y thing is we usually do it from the start. We did it after the break this time. Inexplicable and baffling really.

[STM]

Most of the points we have lost are down to the lack of quality in the squad, not Rafa's tactics. We'd be in Swansea's position without Rafa's tactics.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I'm not having that like. We were worse in the second half but I don't think Rafa changed anything and I stand by that.

 

I was openly critical of him not changing things before they scored, as you could see it coming and also critical of his decision not to bring Murphy on.

 

Other than that, I don't think he could have done anything differently.

 

Edit: What Kaspar said.

 

You cannot be serious. We were the total opposite in the second half man. You say Swansea forced that. Bull shit. They didn’t and even if they did we did fuck all to counter it and were happy to sit in there and contain and protect. Either way it was bull shit nonsense at home to a worse side than us who again wee wasting time from minute one happy to get a point. This sums up their adventure. 45 minutes they get a corner and they take an absolute age to take it. There was little chance of us breaking from it but they didn’t want to just send it in and take a chance. They couldn’t wait for that whistle. WE invited them back into the game by dropping off, not pressing and launching it long. Basically the opposite to what we did in the first half where we carved the, open, they couldn’t get out and we created chance almost after chance or opportunities.

[Kasper]

Just wake up for a minute and think. Why on earth would Rafa tell them to stop playing the way they did first half? Swansea wasn't dangerous at all, there was no need to change to a more defensive approach. If you're argument is that Rafa would settle for a point then we could've played the same way we did first half. We were very compact already. You're argument is that Rafa is a complete moron.

 

Why do you think he made these "changes"? Quotes because it didnt happen.

[mighty__mag]

Most of the points we have lost are down to the lack of quality in the squad, not Rafa's tactics. We'd be in Swansea's position without Rafa's tactics.

 

Naa, thats totally naive. And almost sounds like a Rafa infatuation.

 

Collectively we they are responsible as a whole.I have heard Benitez cant rember the fixture but admits he got it wrong.

We could have done more yesterday, we didnt, but we also didnt lose.

[STM]

Most of the points we have lost are down to the lack of quality in the squad, not Rafa's tactics. We'd be in Swansea's position without Rafa's tactics.

 

Naa, thats totally naive. And almost sounds like a Rafa infatuation.

 

Collectively we they are responsible as a whole.I have heard Benitez cant rember the fixture but admits he got it wrong.

We could have done more yesterday, we didnt, but we also didnt lose.

 

I never said hes perfect. Just slightly more perfect than most of our fans.

 

HTT, calm down man. I like your posts, I just happen to disagree with you on this one.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Just wake up for a minute and think. Why on earth would Rafa tell them to stop playing the way they did first half? Swansea wasn't dangerous at all, there was no need to change to a more defensive approach. If you're argument is that Rafa would settle for a point then we could've played the same way we did first half. We were very compact already. You're argument is that Rafa is a complete moron.

 

Why do you think he made these "changes"? Quotes because it didnt happen.

 

So they just decided to play that way or Swansea forced us into playing that way then is that it? I was there and saw Rafa telling the players to keep it, Lascelles telling the keeper to keep a hold of it, Rafa instructing Perez to go deeper. As soon as the whistle went we dropped back deeper and stopped pressing. Again this isn’t a one off, we usually start that way at home, only we started that way second half this time. It’s s if because we didn’t score first half Rafa decided a different approach. Again this sums up Rafa. He didn’t trust the team to keep going in the same vein and getting reward so decided he’d try a different way, a way which let Swansea back into it and to take the lead. Then he had to make a change which did work, but by then it was a case of oh well, a point is better than a loss.

[Kasper]

I'm not having that like. We were worse in the second half but I don't think Rafa changed anything and I stand by that.

 

I was openly critical of him not changing things before they scored, as you could see it coming and also critical of his decision not to bring Murphy on.

 

Other than that, I don't think he could have done anything differently.

 

Edit: What Kaspar said.

 

You cannot be serious. We were the total opposite in the second half man. You say Swansea forced that. Bull shit. They didn’t and even if they did we did fuck all to counter it and were happy to sit in there and contain and protect. Either way it was bull shit nonsense at home to a worse side than us who again wee wasting time from minute one happy to get a point. This sums up their adventure. 45 minutes they get a corner and they take an absolute age to take it. There was little chance of us breaking from it but they didn’t want to just send it in and take a chance. They couldn’t wait for that whistle. WE invited them back into the game by dropping off, not pressing and launching it long. Basically the opposite to what we did in the first half where we carved the, open, they couldn’t get out and we created chance almost after chance or opportunities.

 

You're talking complete crap man. They had lots of posession in the first half. Actually they had more in the first half than second.

 

Almost all our chances in the first half came from them just passing it around and eventually making a mistake. It wasnt a relentless pressure you're describing at all. We were patient, waiting for the chance to win the ball and going direct when we did. Nothing changed in our tactical approach.

[Kasper]

Just wake up for a minute and think. Why on earth would Rafa tell them to stop playing the way they did first half? Swansea wasn't dangerous at all, there was no need to change to a more defensive approach. If you're argument is that Rafa would settle for a point then we could've played the same way we did first half. We were very compact already. You're argument is that Rafa is a complete moron.

 

Why do you think he made these "changes"? Quotes because it didnt happen.

 

So they just decided to play that way or Swansea forced us into playing that way then is that it? I was there and saw Rafa telling the players to keep it, Lascelles telling the keeper to keep a hold of it, Rafa instructing Perez to go deeper. As soon as the whistle went we dropped back deeper and stopped pressing. Again this isn’t a one off, we usually start that way at home, only we started that way second half this time. It’s s if because we didn’t score first half Rafa decided a different approach. Again this sums up Rafa. He didn’t trust the team to keep going in the same vein and getting reward so decided he’d try a different way, a way which let Swansea back into it and to take the lead. Then he had to make a change which did work, but by then it was a case of oh well, a point is better than a loss.

 

He didn't trust them to keep going the same way? What are you on about? We played a very compact shape first half and they never looked like scoring from anything other than a set piece.

 

The argument that Rafa wanted to make us more defensive after half time is just mind bogglingly stupid.

[STM]

Just wake up for a minute and think. Why on earth would Rafa tell them to stop playing the way they did first half? Swansea wasn't dangerous at all, there was no need to change to a more defensive approach. If you're argument is that Rafa would settle for a point then we could've played the same way we did first half. We were very compact already. You're argument is that Rafa is a complete moron.

 

Why do you think he made these "changes"? Quotes because it didnt happen.

 

So they just decided to play that way or Swansea forced us into playing that way then is that it? I was there and saw Rafa telling the players to keep it, Lascelles telling the keeper to keep a hold of it, Rafa instructing Perez to go deeper. As soon as the whistle went we dropped back deeper and stopped pressing. Again this isn’t a one off, we usually start that way at home, only we started that way second half this time. It’s s if because we didn’t score first half Rafa decided a different approach. Again this sums up Rafa. He didn’t trust the team to keep going in the same vein and getting reward so decided he’d try a different way, a way which let Swansea back into it and to take the lead. Then he had to make a change which did work, but by then it was a case of oh well, a point is better than a loss.

 

He didn't trust them to keep going the same way? What are you on about? We played a very compact shape first half and they never looked like scoring from anything other than a set piece.

 

The argument that Rafa wanted to make us more defensive after half time is just mind bogglingly stupid.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I'm not having that like. We were worse in the second half but I don't think Rafa changed anything and I stand by that.

 

I was openly critical of him not changing things before they scored, as you could see it coming and also critical of his decision not to bring Murphy on.

 

Other than that, I don't think he could have done anything differently.

 

Edit: What Kaspar said.

 

You cannot be serious. We were the total opposite in the second half man. You say Swansea forced that. Bull s***. They didn’t and even if they did we did f*** all to counter it and were happy to sit in there and contain and protect. Either way it was bull s*** nonsense at home to a worse side than us who again wee wasting time from minute one happy to get a point. This sums up their adventure. 45 minutes they get a corner and they take an absolute age to take it. There was little chance of us breaking from it but they didn’t want to just send it in and take a chance. They couldn’t wait for that whistle. WE invited them back into the game by dropping off, not pressing and launching it long. Basically the opposite to what we did in the first half where we carved the, open, they couldn’t get out and we created chance almost after chance or opportunities.

 

You're talking complete crap man. They had lots of posession in the first half. Actually they had more in the first half than second.

 

Almost all our chances in the first half came from them just passing it around and eventually making a mistake. It wasnt a relentless pressure you're describing at all. We were patient, waiting for the chance to win the ball and going direct when we did. Nothing changed in our tactical approach.

 

It wasn’t relentless no, but it was constant getting at them or trying to. Their keeper for example never had time on the ball. Shelvey, Gayle, Perez, Diame, Ritchie and Atsu were camped in their half constantly nicking the ball due to pressing and we were often a man up running at them. They couldn’t get out basically and started launching it long which Clarke and Lascelles gobbled up.