Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Zero]

I thought Rafa has said he felt some of the new signings needed time to adapt or get fit and thats why they are being eased in. I dont believe its a trust thing.

 

It's nearly two months into the season now, you would like to think someone like Muto can offer a bit more than Perez or Joselu. They might press the defenders as per Rafa's instructions, but they just don't offer enough threat in the penalty area.

 

Bearing in mind most of them didn't really get a pre-season with us it doesn't surprise me in the least. They may be better players who can offer more individually but Rafa's all about the collective. He probably wants to have coached them for longer, hence all his comments at the beginning of the window about getting players in ASAP.

 

So is Murphy "settled" now?

[Guest]

Has there been any mention from pundits that the two teams we set up to defend against this season, with Rafa getting stick, put 4 each past teams where goal difference might be important for survival come the end of the season?

[NG32]

Has there been any mention from pundits that the two teams we set up to defend against this season, with Rafa getting stick, put 4 each past teams where goal difference might be important for survival come the end of the season?

 

None from what ive seen.

 

Edit:  Most pundits dont care about teams lving at the bottom end of the table, all they want to see is the top six spanking teams week in - week out and woe be tired if a bottom half of the table team stifles a game and ruins their afternoon.

 

 

 

 

[Mattoon]

It's also important to remember Rafa is all about rotation at the beginning of the season, under him we've pretty much always started slow (admittedly much slower this season) and kicked on as the season has gone on, also finishing relatively strongly. At a time where most teams are getting injuries and fatigue, the way Rafa mixes it up leaves us stronger towards the end of the season and keeps our injury list relatively low at all times. When he thinks we're ready we'll see his best 11 week in, week out but it's never at the start of the season.

[ToonArmy1892]

Our own fans having a go at Rafa ffs

 

Won championship and finished 10th, end of story.

[geordiedean]

Our own fans having a go at Rafa ffs

 

Won championship and finished 10th, end of story.

 

Does he get a free pass with everything he does then? He has to harbour some of the blame and criticism at times, his tactics and team selection and substitutions are frustrating at times

 

You cant just let the fella have a free ride and be absolved of any criticism at all even the best managers get criticised

 

Pardew finished 5th and he was despised and rightly so

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

I get the impression some fans think NUFC should try and play swashbuckling, Keegan style football. When Keegan did that we had one of the best squads in the league and I'd say tactics, fitness, etc of all the teams have come along way since the 1990s. When Keegan returned and the squad wasn't as good he said the team couldn't compete (he got a bollocking off Mike Ashley for stating that fact). Not even Keegan could play good attacking football with the squad he had under Mike Ashley. The squad now is worse in quality (compared to the rest of the league) than it was in Keegan's second stint.

 

An attacking manager may get the odd better result than Rafa with the same squad but they'd also get hammered a lot more. Rafa wins points he probably shouldn't against the better teams. Sometimes he doesn't get wins when they are expected. Averaged out over a season, with the squad available I'd think Rafa would get more points than the manager who went for it every game.

 

Rafa is playing the hand he's been dealt. If you won't pay the money you won't get decent attacking players. Attacking players are usually a lot more expensive than defensive players. Mike Ashley has NUFC taking a knife to a gunfight.

[loki679]

The problem is you bring no sense of context into your posts.  At a normal club, then sure, criticism may be warranted but even then it's a matter of opinion.  What's missing from your view is the recognition that our manager is being forced to work with a squad that's not fit for purpose and has been constructed not in order to win football matches but to maximise the bottom line at the end of the season.

 

You may disagree with tactics or substitutions (or the lack thereof) but the simple fact is we have a master craftsman being forced to work with broken, rusty tools swiped from a lockup by the river.

 

Like it or not, he's doing the best he can with what he has and no amount of wisdom in hindsight changes that fact.

[geordiedean]

The problem is you bring no sense of context into your posts.  At a normal club, then sure, criticism may be warranted but even then it's a matter of opinion.  What's missing from your view is the recognition that our manager is being forced to work with a squad that's not fit for purpose and has been constructed not in order to win football matches but to maximise the bottom line at the end of the season.

 

You may disagree with tactics or substitutions (or the lack thereof) but the simple fact is we have a master craftsman being forced to work with broken, rusty tools swiped from a lockup by the river.

 

Like it or not, he's doing the best he can with what he has and no amount of wisdom in hindsight changes that fact.

 

I completely agree with you on this and yes he is working within massive restraints but even within the restraints he has some of his choices are puzzling at times. Starting players like Hayden,Joselu,Manquillo,Murphy and leaving people like Shelvey,Muto,Rondon etc on the bench is a head scratcher. As you said football is very opinion based and everyones opinion differs but I do not think he can always be absolved of any criticism no matter the restraints hes under

[ToonArmy1892]

The point is, blaming Rafa for what's going on is pointless.

[geordiedean]

The point is, blaming Rafa for what's going on is pointless.

 

Events off the pitch he cannot be criticised for but events and decisions he makes on the pitch hes open to criticism for in my opinion

[Darth Crooks]

These methods have worked in the recent past - difference is this season the manager has been supported even less, the politics have been laid even more bare with tensions whilst other clubs have strengthened not only in personnel terms but also through the drive of being first season in the premier league, boards and fans pulling in the same direction and just being bothered about being an actual football club. You can't ignore that context - it's far more of a factor than what sub could have been done or a formation.

[loki679]

Other clubs are trying to compete on the pitch, we're trying to compete at the accountants, that's the big difference.

[huss9]

if we've had a handful of matches with our full strength team against mid/lower league teams and do fuck all - then u can have a go at rafa.

[Bimpy474]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

[Dokko]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

[Wallsendmag]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

To be fair to Rafa he's been here just over 2 years and has made a £27m profit in the transfer market whilst the teams we're up against have literally spent 100s of millions improving their squads so he isn't exactly competing on a level playing field here which most supporters understand.

 

If we had a proper owner and money was being invested in the team and we were doing poorly I'm sure he'd be under some scrutiny.

[Vinny Green Balls]

The problem is you bring no sense of context into your posts.  At a normal club, then sure, criticism may be warranted but even then it's a matter of opinion.  What's missing from your view is the recognition that our manager is being forced to work with a squad that's not fit for purpose and has been constructed not in order to win football matches but to maximise the bottom line at the end of the season.

 

You may disagree with tactics or substitutions (or the lack thereof) but the simple fact is we have a master craftsman being forced to work with broken, rusty tools swiped from a lockup by the river.

 

Like it or not, he's doing the best he can with what he has and no amount of wisdom in hindsight changes that fact.

 

I completely agree with you on this and yes he is working within massive restraints but even within the restraints he has some of his choices are puzzling at times. Starting players like Hayden,Joselu,Manquillo,Murphy and leaving people like Shelvey,Muto,Rondon etc on the bench is a head scratcher. As you said football is very opinion based and everyones opinion differs but I do not think he can always be absolved of any criticism no matter the restraints hes under

 

On the surface, this seems reasonable, but you have taken pretty much every opportunity to take a swipe at Rafa. You can't tone your posts down to this level without utterly revising the history of your responses. You were calling for his head one year ago, and no matter how much you gild the turd, that will not change.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

People like geordiedean get slated by most for their over-the-top, invariably negative, contextless, hyper-reactive posts. It's a bit absurd to call it a cult of Rafa for attacking people like him. Some on here really seem to get off on heroic victim complexes.

[Robster]

but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

yes, but usually the one who get attacked seem to be the perpetual criticizers. FFS remember last year. This apparent revisionism is depressing.

[geordiedean]

The problem is you bring no sense of context into your posts.  At a normal club, then sure, criticism may be warranted but even then it's a matter of opinion.  What's missing from your view is the recognition that our manager is being forced to work with a squad that's not fit for purpose and has been constructed not in order to win football matches but to maximise the bottom line at the end of the season.

 

You may disagree with tactics or substitutions (or the lack thereof) but the simple fact is we have a master craftsman being forced to work with broken, rusty tools swiped from a lockup by the river.

 

Like it or not, he's doing the best he can with what he has and no amount of wisdom in hindsight changes that fact.

 

I completely agree with you on this and yes he is working within massive restraints but even within the restraints he has some of his choices are puzzling at times. Starting players like Hayden,Joselu,Manquillo,Murphy and leaving people like Shelvey,Muto,Rondon etc on the bench is a head scratcher. As you said football is very opinion based and everyones opinion differs but I do not think he can always be absolved of any criticism no matter the restraints hes under

 

On the surface, this seems reasonable, but you have taken pretty much every opportunity to take a swipe at Rafa. You can't tone your posts down to this level without utterly revising the history of your responses. You were calling for his head one year ago, and no matter how much you gild the turd, that will not change.

 

I made the error of calling for his head and calling him the Spanish Pulis after another completely inept display during that 9 game losing run we had last season. Was a completely emotive response and I was wrong for doing so. Things can be said in the heat of the moment

 

I am a fan of his but im not one of these people that thinks absolutely nothing is his fault some of the decisions he seems to make are bordering on stubbornness and mind games in his power struggle

 

 

[Bimpy474]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

Rafa has been screwed left right and centre any fool should know and see it. I get the 'just keep blaming the dealer' argument, and the obvious and perfectly correct his squad isn't good enough because of Ashley, so what can he do.

 

My point and i reckon others on here is, even if Rafa had spent £100m i would still comment on a sub, the timing of one or a certain tactic or approach, a poor starting pick etc as that's football. And what i love to talk about, scrutinise and study more than anything else.

 

 

[Vinny Green Balls]

The problem is you bring no sense of context into your posts.  At a normal club, then sure, criticism may be warranted but even then it's a matter of opinion.  What's missing from your view is the recognition that our manager is being forced to work with a squad that's not fit for purpose and has been constructed not in order to win football matches but to maximise the bottom line at the end of the season.

 

You may disagree with tactics or substitutions (or the lack thereof) but the simple fact is we have a master craftsman being forced to work with broken, rusty tools swiped from a lockup by the river.

 

Like it or not, he's doing the best he can with what he has and no amount of wisdom in hindsight changes that fact.

 

I completely agree with you on this and yes he is working within massive restraints but even within the restraints he has some of his choices are puzzling at times. Starting players like Hayden,Joselu,Manquillo,Murphy and leaving people like Shelvey,Muto,Rondon etc on the bench is a head scratcher. As you said football is very opinion based and everyones opinion differs but I do not think he can always be absolved of any criticism no matter the restraints hes under

 

On the surface, this seems reasonable, but you have taken pretty much every opportunity to take a swipe at Rafa. You can't tone your posts down to this level without utterly revising the history of your responses. You were calling for his head one year ago, and no matter how much you gild the turd, that will not change.

 

I made the error of calling for his head and calling him the Spanish Pulis after another completely inept display during that 9 game losing run we had last season. Was a completely emotive response and I was wrong for doing so. Things can be said in the heat of the moment

 

I am a fan of his but im not one of these people that thinks absolutely nothing is his fault some of the decisions he seems to make are bordering on stubbornness and mind games in his power struggle

 

 

 

You made the error for something like 6 weeks straight. HTT's was heat of the moment. Yours was and has been consistent. There is a massive difference.

[Dokko]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

People like geordiedean get slated by most for their over-the-top, invariably negative, contextless, hyper-reactive posts. It's a bit absurd to call it a cult of Rafa for attacking people like him. Some on here really seem to get off on heroic victim complexes.

 

GD is on the other side of the wing with crumpy. It’s the middle ground I’m personally looking for. IT feels like brexit vs remain, you must take a side. when the truth is although brexit is horrifically bad, there are one or two things to be said in favour of it (somewhere I’m sure). Just like Rafa isn’t always right, it’s ok to think that and point it out.

 

It’s not all black and white, however this place has always been the same, it’s hard to have an opinion that doesn’t match the majority.