Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[DJ_NUFC]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

 

And news organizations like CNN are 100% correct in doing so. However silly or dangerous one's views, censorship is, of course, never the answer. What's funny is that the same people who are afforded an international platform, total freedom, to air their views, then cry persecution when they get called out, or someone refutes their claims You have a right to speak your mind, you don't have the right to not let others speak theirs in return. If you're going to post dumb shit, get used to being called one.

 

That's not the point. They are not correct in treating such views equally to accepted science, and creating controversy where there is none. Not about censorship, but reminding less-informed people that they are fringe conspiracy theories that are not taken seriously for a good reason. Massive difference.

 

Not when it comes to climate science, an issue that actual governments treat like totally not a settled matter, as seen in the US. It's hardly fringe when the gov't is gutting the EPA based on this supposed fringe. As a news org, it's your duty at that point to have someone on who's on the side of all this power. It's your job at that point to refute them point by point, by having actual scientists there who can do so.

[STM]

What does anyone gain from criticising Rafa? Of course he makes errors, he's a human. They are few and far between though.

 

Personally, I prefer to save my anger towards the owner, who is much more of a reason behind us losing games.

[Vinny Green Balls]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

 

And news organizations like CNN are 100% correct in doing so. However silly or dangerous one's views, censorship is, of course, never the answer. What's funny is that the same people who are afforded an international platform, total freedom, to air their views, then cry persecution when they get called out, or someone refutes their claims You have a right to speak your mind, you don't have the right to not let others speak theirs in return. If you're going to post dumb shit, get used to being called one.

 

That's not the point. They are not correct in treating such views equally to accepted science, and creating controversy where there is none. Not about censorship, but reminding less-informed people that they are fringe conspiracy theories that are not taken seriously for a good reason. Massive difference.

 

Not when it comes to climate science, an issue that actual governments treat like totally not a settled matter, as seen in the US. It's hardly fringe when the gov't is gutting the EPA based on this supposed fringe. As a news org, it's your duty at that point to have someone on who's on the side of all this power. It's your job at that point to refute them point by point, by having actual scientists there who can do so.

 

yes, but having a soundbite format with one scientist and one denier makes it appear like it is a controversy. It is one glaring problem with the Fairness Doctrine, and has worked to the advantage of big oil by throwing manufactured doubt in the mix, and already capitalizing on people's natural confirmation bias. Anyway, almost every major government does in fact treat it like a settled matter. Big Oil's Big Tobacco tactics have only been massively effective in the US.

 

Back to this, people should give these views a bit more context, instead of treating this like some Inquisition.

[DJ_NUFC]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

 

And news organizations like CNN are 100% correct in doing so. However silly or dangerous one's views, censorship is, of course, never the answer. What's funny is that the same people who are afforded an international platform, total freedom, to air their views, then cry persecution when they get called out, or someone refutes their claims You have a right to speak your mind, you don't have the right to not let others speak theirs in return. If you're going to post dumb shit, get used to being called one.

 

That's not the point. They are not correct in treating such views equally to accepted science, and creating controversy where there is none. Not about censorship, but reminding less-informed people that they are fringe conspiracy theories that are not taken seriously for a good reason. Massive difference.

 

Not when it comes to climate science, an issue that actual governments treat like totally not a settled matter, as seen in the US. It's hardly fringe when the gov't is gutting the EPA based on this supposed fringe. As a news org, it's your duty at that point to have someone on who's on the side of all this power. It's your job at that point to refute them point by point, by having actual scientists there who can do so.

 

yes, but having a soundbite format with one scientist and one denier makes it appear like it is a controversy. It is one glaring problem with the Fairness Doctrine, and has worked to the advantage of big oil by throwing manufactured doubt in the mix, and already capitalizing on people's natural confirmation bias.

 

I agree the format of our entire news television is terrible, and not conducive to long-form debates or chats, where nuance can actually come through. Instead almost all of these chats devolve into shouting matches.

[Vinny Green Balls]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

 

And news organizations like CNN are 100% correct in doing so. However silly or dangerous one's views, censorship is, of course, never the answer. What's funny is that the same people who are afforded an international platform, total freedom, to air their views, then cry persecution when they get called out, or someone refutes their claims You have a right to speak your mind, you don't have the right to not let others speak theirs in return. If you're going to post dumb shit, get used to being called one.

 

That's not the point. They are not correct in treating such views equally to accepted science, and creating controversy where there is none. Not about censorship, but reminding less-informed people that they are fringe conspiracy theories that are not taken seriously for a good reason. Massive difference.

 

Not when it comes to climate science, an issue that actual governments treat like totally not a settled matter, as seen in the US. It's hardly fringe when the gov't is gutting the EPA based on this supposed fringe. As a news org, it's your duty at that point to have someone on who's on the side of all this power. It's your job at that point to refute them point by point, by having actual scientists there who can do so.

 

yes, but having a soundbite format with one scientist and one denier makes it appear like it is a controversy. It is one glaring problem with the Fairness Doctrine, and has worked to the advantage of big oil by throwing manufactured doubt in the mix, and already capitalizing on people's natural confirmation bias.

 

I agree the format of our entire news television is terrible, and not conducive to long-form debates or chats, where nuance can actually come through. Instead almost all of these chats devolve into shouting matches.

 

we digress

[wormy]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

 

And news organizations like CNN are 100% correct in doing so. However silly or dangerous one's views, censorship is, of course, never the answer. What's funny is that the same people who are afforded an international platform, total freedom, to air their views, then cry persecution when they get called out, or someone refutes their claims You have a right to speak your mind, you don't have the right to not let others speak theirs in return. If you're going to post dumb shit, get used to being called one.

 

That's not the point. They are not correct in treating such views equally to accepted science, and creating controversy where there is none. Not about censorship, but reminding less-informed people that they are fringe conspiracy theories that are not taken seriously for a good reason. Massive difference.

 

Not when it comes to climate science, an issue that actual governments treat like totally not a settled matter, as seen in the US. It's hardly fringe when the gov't is gutting the EPA based on this supposed fringe. As a news org, it's your duty at that point to have someone on who's on the side of all this power. It's your job at that point to refute them point by point, by having actual scientists there who can do so.

 

yes, but having a soundbite format with one scientist and one denier makes it appear like it is a controversy. It is one glaring problem with the Fairness Doctrine, and has worked to the advantage of big oil by throwing manufactured doubt in the mix, and already capitalizing on people's natural confirmation bias.

 

I agree the format of our entire news television is terrible, and not conducive to long-form debates or chats, where nuance can actually come through. Instead almost all of these chats devolve into shouting matches.

 

we digress

 

Please continue. Its the most constructive the football section has been in months.

[Vinny Green Balls]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

 

And news organizations like CNN are 100% correct in doing so. However silly or dangerous one's views, censorship is, of course, never the answer. What's funny is that the same people who are afforded an international platform, total freedom, to air their views, then cry persecution when they get called out, or someone refutes their claims You have a right to speak your mind, you don't have the right to not let others speak theirs in return. If you're going to post dumb shit, get used to being called one.

 

That's not the point. They are not correct in treating such views equally to accepted science, and creating controversy where there is none. Not about censorship, but reminding less-informed people that they are fringe conspiracy theories that are not taken seriously for a good reason. Massive difference.

 

Not when it comes to climate science, an issue that actual governments treat like totally not a settled matter, as seen in the US. It's hardly fringe when the gov't is gutting the EPA based on this supposed fringe. As a news org, it's your duty at that point to have someone on who's on the side of all this power. It's your job at that point to refute them point by point, by having actual scientists there who can do so.

 

yes, but having a soundbite format with one scientist and one denier makes it appear like it is a controversy. It is one glaring problem with the Fairness Doctrine, and has worked to the advantage of big oil by throwing manufactured doubt in the mix, and already capitalizing on people's natural confirmation bias.

 

I agree the format of our entire news television is terrible, and not conducive to long-form debates or chats, where nuance can actually come through. Instead almost all of these chats devolve into shouting matches.

 

we digress

 

Please continue. Its the most constructive the football section has been in months.

 

I don't know. Tube's exploration of different ideas every day is inspirational.

[Mattoon]

For me it's pretty simple really, we can all agree that the main culprit is Ashley, no that doesn't mean we can't question some of Rafa's choices but this is Rafa, he knows more about the game than the members of this forum put together and that earns him the right to make mistakes. If this was Alardyce or Pardew then have at you but it's not and if Rafa doesn't think a player is ready to join the first team, unlike Pardew, he won't play them. Our best 11 won't be fielded until he thinks they're ready to be fielded and when he thinks it's best to field them. Just like he did last season and the season before he'll spend the first 10 games mixing up the first team and easing players in, the main reason we don't suffer from injury set backs and why we're still relatively fresh in the vinegar strokes of the season.

 

There's a lot of factors damaging our form at the moment but I'd say 1% or maybe less of that is down to Rafa and only Rafa, come Christmas he'll have had time to get his best 11 together and singing from the same hymn sheet and we'll have enough results in the bag to not be flirting with relegation.

 

Whatever happens and when we do start to move free and gain some momentum my only hope is that the protests against Ashley only intensify otherwise we look fickle and Ashley will go back into hiding safe for another season.

[James]

Ashley aside our opening fixtures were terrible and it was disappointing and possibly corrupt that the Premier League let that happen.

 

So it’s 95% Ashley, 5% Premier League, Benitez blameless

[HaydnNUFC]

For me it's pretty simple really, we can all agree that the main culprit is Ashley, no that doesn't mean we can't question some of Rafa's choices but this is Rafa, he knows more about the game than the members of this forum put together and that earns him the right to make mistakes. If this was Alardyce or Pardew then have at you but it's not and if Rafa doesn't think a player is ready to join the first team, unlike Pardew, he won't play them. Our best 11 won't be fielded until he thinks they're ready to be fielded and when he thinks it's best to field them. Just like he did last season and the season before he'll spend the first 10 games mixing up the first team and easing players in, the main reason we don't suffer from injury set backs and why we're still relatively fresh in the vinegar strokes of the season.

 

There's a lot of factors damaging our form at the moment but I'd say 1% or maybe less of that is down to Rafa and only Rafa, come Christmas he'll have had time to get his best 11 together and singing from the same hymn sheet and we'll have enough results in the bag to not be flirting with relegation.

 

Whatever happens and when we do start to move free and gain some momentum my only hope is that the protests against Ashley only intensify otherwise we look fickle and Ashley will go back into hiding safe for another season.

[relámpago blanco]

Rafa is awesome and we won't get a better manager than him. We are so lucky to have him, I wonder why he is here but it's because he knows he can achieve a lot here and he is loved. Is he human? Yes. Will he make mistakes? Yes. We have had a ridiculous start to the season and no way to build momentum. We will be fine and we will not get relegated. We will finish between 8th and 12th.

[geordiedean]

Rafa is awesome and we won't get a better manager than him. We are so lucky to have him, I wonder why he is here but it's because he knows he can achieve a lot here and he is loved. Is he human? Yes. Will he make mistakes? Yes. We have had a ridiculous start to the season and no way to build momentum. We will be fine and we will not get relegated. We will finish between 8th and 12th.

 

If this squad finishes 8th ill eat hay with a donkey

[Altamullan]

Rafa is awesome and we won't get a better manager than him. We are so lucky to have him, I wonder why he is here but it's because he knows he can achieve a lot here and he is loved. Is he human? Yes. Will he make mistakes? Yes. We have had a ridiculous start to the season and no way to build momentum. We will be fine and we will not get relegated. We will finish between 8th and 12th.

 

If this squad finishes 8th ill eat hay with a donkey

What about eat hay once eaten by a donkey?

[Tubestationatmidnight]

Rafa is awesome and we won't get a better manager than him. We are so lucky to have him, I wonder why he is here but it's because he knows he can achieve a lot here and he is loved. Is he human? Yes. Will he make mistakes? Yes. We have had a ridiculous start to the season and no way to build momentum. We will be fine and we will not get relegated. We will finish between 8th and 12th.

 

If this squad finishes 8th ill eat hay with a donkey

 

We would have said the same last September or December and it nearly happened

[Zero]

"Rafa is always right" is different from "Rafa makes mistakes but he is absolutely blameless".  What I see is some posters simply point out what Rafa did wrong and then immediately get rinsed for "how dare you criticise Rafa".

 

He always got my support doesn't I mean I can agree with starting Hayden for the last game. I could never understand nor agree with this decision.

[Paully]

Rafa is awesome and we won't get a better manager than him. We are so lucky to have him, I wonder why he is here but it's because he knows he can achieve a lot here and he is loved. Is he human? Yes. Will he make mistakes? Yes. We have had a ridiculous start to the season and no way to build momentum. We will be fine and we will not get relegated. We will finish between 8th and 12th.

 

If this squad finishes 8th ill eat hay with a donkey

 

We would have said the same last September or December and it nearly happened

 

Aye but virtually every other team has massively improved whereas Rafa has spent about 12 pence!

[Guest Howaythetoon]

My concern right now is that after we added Dubravka and Kennedy last season and the more Lascelles and Lejune become a partnership at the back, we started to look a good team in general.

 

Nothing special, but able to defend and slack up pressure and nick a draw or a win or able to get at teams and do enough to go on and win. Lejune is a big miss at the back of course, but other than the basics and some huff and puff, there isn’t any real selmblance of a team at the moment in either area of the pitch, on and off the ball.

 

I think for the players despondency has set in following what can only be described as a really poor transfer window. Had we just added 2 or 3 really quality players and early enough to be fit and he’ll we would be much better off, but we have either replaced like for like or bought players of no pedigree who will need time to sell and adapt and even then they aren’t improving the team by much, if at all.

 

Then there is Rafa’s situation, the players are still playing for him and he is still giving his all and they and he will continue to do that, but it’s harder to keep what we had going last season and then try to build on that if the manager and his staff might not be here next season.

 

We all know Rafa takes each game at a time and the days or week or weeks leading up to a game is all about that game specifically, in terms of developing the players through coaching, however, it’s always about tomorrow and not today as Rafa tries to create a long-term style that can evolve and change as happened towards the end of last season where we become more progressive in attack and more confident on the ball having laid down the defensive foundations.

 

Obviously being restricted in the transfer market doesn’t help in that sense as we have seen how in Dubravka and Kennedy alone last season just by adding their quality and extra attributes can speed up the evolution of the team or enable it to grow.

 

We seem to have regressed, yes we have had a tough start in terms of fixtures, but we have looked desperately short all over the park, in defence, midfield and mostly in attack.

 

There is not one thing you can say we are good at, do well or can work on and only get better at. Not at current.

 

Last season there was a sense of trying to put right a wrong of relegation, for players to prove themselves and hope for a brighter future. I would t even call this a second season syndrome, I’d call this an eniveability of what happens when you don’t build on things to kick on.

 

Rafa is a great manager but he can’t be expected to churn out a top 10 finish with if not the same players a team that bears the same lack of quality all the same and keep such a team fighting to do what is extremely hard to keep doing, improving, not when that improvement last year was a form of overachievement and not a natural progression.

 

Last season is over, it’s gone, Rafa needs to find a new solution and soon because you can’t keep doing the same things over and over again we did last season that only barely just worked.

 

He’s not daft though, if anyone can find a way, it’s him. It won’t be pretty though and now it’s all about just staying up and all the way from now and until the end of the season.

 

Sadly it neednt have been that way and shouldn’t be not with 53k fans and Rafa in the dugout and all that TV money.

 

This is gonna be another season in many which will be a page if the in the annals of the club’s history, like most of Pardew’s where everything just seems a bit pointless which is what we as a club are right now.

 

What’s the point in having 53k fans?

What’s the point in all that TV money?

What’s the point in having a world class manager?

What’s the point if even being a PL club?

 

There are clubs like Wolves and Fulham who have tried to become a PL club for many a year and will do their best to not just stay one, but to become a PL club of note that want to write new chapters, make new history and compete as best as they can and as high as they can.

 

It’s kind of not fair that we went up just to make up the numbers when there are many clubs who didn’t and may never will would love a crack at the PL so they can become a club worthy of the top-flight. We are not worthy. Rafa is, as fans we are worthy and some of our players are.

 

Ashley though, he doesn’t deserve to own such a club and have such a manager in the dugout.

 

Fans dont deserve Ashley either, but if we don’t do something, anything, we don’t deserve Rafa, a great team and a top club. Rafa has fought from day one for that and will right up until the day he leaves, be it under Ashley or someone else.

 

A lot of fans have fought too and will keep fighting, but if the majority don’t join the fight it’s always going to be a losing battle and a landslide victory for Ashley.

 

A lifetime of Ashley, really? Because that’s where it’s all heading. Imagine a decade of Rafa being backed and supported financially and what he could achieve, what we as a club could do. Imagine that kind of chapter in our history books...

 

The last 10 have been relegations, relegation battles, greats humiliated and took to court, our better players sold constantly, outspent by championship clubs, our stadium decaying, fans fighting, media laughing, our history and status eroded and worst of all our club becoming synonymous with Sports Direct where now we are a vehicle for that and it’s majority shareholder, owner and all his cronies, and nothing else.

 

Sports Direct United.

[Guest neesy111]

Every HTT post needs an abstract.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Basically for the hard of reading...

 

Rafa = doing a great job

Rafa = cannot really do much more

Rafa = expecting him to is expecting too much

Ashley = blame him, it’s never going to change while he’s around

Rafa = 

[Vinny Green Balls]

Every HTT post needs an abstract.

 

[Vinny Green Balls]

If George R.R. Martin was as prolific a writer as HTT, he would have finished the series in the 2nd quarter of 2001.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If George R.R. Martin was as prolific a writer as HTT, he would have finished the series in the 2nd quarter of 2001.

 

You say that, but I probably have one of the lowest post counts on here given my length of time on here, again, I post to gather my own thoughts and enjoy it. Takes me a few minutes which helps of course

[Vinny Green Balls]

If George R.R. Martin was as prolific a writer as HTT, he would have finished the series in the 2nd quarter of 2001.

 

You say that, but I probably have one of the lowest post counts on here given my length of time on here, again, I post to gather my own thoughts and enjoy it. Takes me a few minutes which helps of course

 

but probably the highest word count by about 15-25 million words.

[geordiedean]

This thread is going to be like a loved one has died come the end of the season when he walks away

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I go for quality over quantity...