Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[huss9]

if we've had a handful of matches with our full strength team against mid/lower league teams and do fuck all - then u can have a go at rafa.

[Bimpy474]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

[Dokko]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

[Wallsendmag]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

To be fair to Rafa he's been here just over 2 years and has made a £27m profit in the transfer market whilst the teams we're up against have literally spent 100s of millions improving their squads so he isn't exactly competing on a level playing field here which most supporters understand.

 

If we had a proper owner and money was being invested in the team and we were doing poorly I'm sure he'd be under some scrutiny.

[Vinny Green Balls]

The problem is you bring no sense of context into your posts.  At a normal club, then sure, criticism may be warranted but even then it's a matter of opinion.  What's missing from your view is the recognition that our manager is being forced to work with a squad that's not fit for purpose and has been constructed not in order to win football matches but to maximise the bottom line at the end of the season.

 

You may disagree with tactics or substitutions (or the lack thereof) but the simple fact is we have a master craftsman being forced to work with broken, rusty tools swiped from a lockup by the river.

 

Like it or not, he's doing the best he can with what he has and no amount of wisdom in hindsight changes that fact.

 

I completely agree with you on this and yes he is working within massive restraints but even within the restraints he has some of his choices are puzzling at times. Starting players like Hayden,Joselu,Manquillo,Murphy and leaving people like Shelvey,Muto,Rondon etc on the bench is a head scratcher. As you said football is very opinion based and everyones opinion differs but I do not think he can always be absolved of any criticism no matter the restraints hes under

 

On the surface, this seems reasonable, but you have taken pretty much every opportunity to take a swipe at Rafa. You can't tone your posts down to this level without utterly revising the history of your responses. You were calling for his head one year ago, and no matter how much you gild the turd, that will not change.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

People like geordiedean get slated by most for their over-the-top, invariably negative, contextless, hyper-reactive posts. It's a bit absurd to call it a cult of Rafa for attacking people like him. Some on here really seem to get off on heroic victim complexes.

[Robster]

but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

yes, but usually the one who get attacked seem to be the perpetual criticizers. FFS remember last year. This apparent revisionism is depressing.

[geordiedean]

The problem is you bring no sense of context into your posts.  At a normal club, then sure, criticism may be warranted but even then it's a matter of opinion.  What's missing from your view is the recognition that our manager is being forced to work with a squad that's not fit for purpose and has been constructed not in order to win football matches but to maximise the bottom line at the end of the season.

 

You may disagree with tactics or substitutions (or the lack thereof) but the simple fact is we have a master craftsman being forced to work with broken, rusty tools swiped from a lockup by the river.

 

Like it or not, he's doing the best he can with what he has and no amount of wisdom in hindsight changes that fact.

 

I completely agree with you on this and yes he is working within massive restraints but even within the restraints he has some of his choices are puzzling at times. Starting players like Hayden,Joselu,Manquillo,Murphy and leaving people like Shelvey,Muto,Rondon etc on the bench is a head scratcher. As you said football is very opinion based and everyones opinion differs but I do not think he can always be absolved of any criticism no matter the restraints hes under

 

On the surface, this seems reasonable, but you have taken pretty much every opportunity to take a swipe at Rafa. You can't tone your posts down to this level without utterly revising the history of your responses. You were calling for his head one year ago, and no matter how much you gild the turd, that will not change.

 

I made the error of calling for his head and calling him the Spanish Pulis after another completely inept display during that 9 game losing run we had last season. Was a completely emotive response and I was wrong for doing so. Things can be said in the heat of the moment

 

I am a fan of his but im not one of these people that thinks absolutely nothing is his fault some of the decisions he seems to make are bordering on stubbornness and mind games in his power struggle

 

 

[Bimpy474]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

Rafa has been screwed left right and centre any fool should know and see it. I get the 'just keep blaming the dealer' argument, and the obvious and perfectly correct his squad isn't good enough because of Ashley, so what can he do.

 

My point and i reckon others on here is, even if Rafa had spent £100m i would still comment on a sub, the timing of one or a certain tactic or approach, a poor starting pick etc as that's football. And what i love to talk about, scrutinise and study more than anything else.

 

 

[Vinny Green Balls]

The problem is you bring no sense of context into your posts.  At a normal club, then sure, criticism may be warranted but even then it's a matter of opinion.  What's missing from your view is the recognition that our manager is being forced to work with a squad that's not fit for purpose and has been constructed not in order to win football matches but to maximise the bottom line at the end of the season.

 

You may disagree with tactics or substitutions (or the lack thereof) but the simple fact is we have a master craftsman being forced to work with broken, rusty tools swiped from a lockup by the river.

 

Like it or not, he's doing the best he can with what he has and no amount of wisdom in hindsight changes that fact.

 

I completely agree with you on this and yes he is working within massive restraints but even within the restraints he has some of his choices are puzzling at times. Starting players like Hayden,Joselu,Manquillo,Murphy and leaving people like Shelvey,Muto,Rondon etc on the bench is a head scratcher. As you said football is very opinion based and everyones opinion differs but I do not think he can always be absolved of any criticism no matter the restraints hes under

 

On the surface, this seems reasonable, but you have taken pretty much every opportunity to take a swipe at Rafa. You can't tone your posts down to this level without utterly revising the history of your responses. You were calling for his head one year ago, and no matter how much you gild the turd, that will not change.

 

I made the error of calling for his head and calling him the Spanish Pulis after another completely inept display during that 9 game losing run we had last season. Was a completely emotive response and I was wrong for doing so. Things can be said in the heat of the moment

 

I am a fan of his but im not one of these people that thinks absolutely nothing is his fault some of the decisions he seems to make are bordering on stubbornness and mind games in his power struggle

 

 

 

You made the error for something like 6 weeks straight. HTT's was heat of the moment. Yours was and has been consistent. There is a massive difference.

[Dokko]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

People like geordiedean get slated by most for their over-the-top, invariably negative, contextless, hyper-reactive posts. It's a bit absurd to call it a cult of Rafa for attacking people like him. Some on here really seem to get off on heroic victim complexes.

 

GD is on the other side of the wing with crumpy. It’s the middle ground I’m personally looking for. IT feels like brexit vs remain, you must take a side. when the truth is although brexit is horrifically bad, there are one or two things to be said in favour of it (somewhere I’m sure). Just like Rafa isn’t always right, it’s ok to think that and point it out.

 

It’s not all black and white, however this place has always been the same, it’s hard to have an opinion that doesn’t match the majority.

[Darth Crooks]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

Rafa has been screwed left right and centre any fool should know and see it. I get the 'just keep blaming the dealer' argument, and the obvious and perfectly correct his squad isn't good enough because of Ashley, so what can he do.

 

My point and i reckon others on here is, even if Rafa had spent £100m i would still comment on a sub, the timing of one or a certain tactic or approach, a poor starting pick etc as that's football. And what i love to talk about, scrutinise and study more than anything else.

 

 

 

Well, that's ultimately being spoilt by him n all. I suppose hyper sensitivity is partly from this bullshit narrative attacking Rafa and people want to defend him to the hilt. Also I'm finding it hard to see the relevance of the on pitch stuff so everything is viewed through the other lens. Sad but there you go.

[Dokko]

Are we not overreacting, when i moan or point out something within a particular game, that's for just that incident in that game.

 

It's not slating Rafa or not wanting him, it's the type of thing a fan points out in any game, winning or losing. Sometimes it's as if we're waiting to jump on anything or something anyone says about Rafa that isn't praise.

 

Or we've developed the cult of Corbyn in here too like.

 

Rafa has been a cult on here for some time. It’s a combination of our situation and his ability which in light of the situation is incredible he’s still here (so all situation really)

 

He’d be under far more scrutiny if we had a proper owner I’m sure, but it seems you can’t say anything negative as all you’ll get is that it’s the situation and Ashley is to blame...which is hard to argue with as he has created it, but sometimes you can do more with the hand you’ve been dealt rather than just keep blaming the dealer.

 

Rafa has been screwed left right and centre any fool should know and see it. I get the 'just keep blaming the dealer' argument, and the obvious and perfectly correct his squad isn't good enough because of Ashley, so what can he do.

 

My point and i reckon others on here is, even if Rafa had spent £100m i would still comment on a sub, the timing of one or a certain tactic or approach, a poor starting pick etc as that's football. And what i love to talk about, scrutinise and study more than anything else.

 

Can’t argue with any of that.

[Vinny Green Balls]

I really don't see it that way. What I see most frequently are a few people who continually act persecuted, which reeks of victim complex.

 

Once again, the people who get regularly slated are those on the extreme side of the wing. I am sure a few people will attack every criticism of Rafa, which I agree is a bit ridiculous. But those who appear to stick out the most by some distance are the likes of gd.

[Bimpy474]

Footy and opinions, ha it would be boring without them. I find it hard to write down exactly what i mean sometimes, it gets lost in translation although to be fair to me I'm from Essex so i have a ready made excuse 

 

I've no doubt if we all discussed Rafa, the club, the football etc face to face things would be interpreted differently. Obviously there are knackers who can't see he's the best chance we have of winning anything (if we can get shot of Ashley) but then they're entitled to that view, mad as that is.

[Vinny Green Balls]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

[Bimpy474]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

[Vinny Green Balls]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

[DJ_NUFC]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

 

And news organizations like CNN are 100% correct in doing so. However silly or dangerous one's views, censorship is, of course, never the answer. What's funny is that the same people who are afforded an international platform, total freedom, to air their views, then cry persecution when they get called out, or someone refutes their claims You have a right to speak your mind, you don't have the right to not let others speak theirs in return. If you're going to post dumb shit, get used to being called one.

[TRon]

Watching Newcastle at the moment, it is a bit depressing and I can see the temptation to blame it on Rafa's negative tactics, transfer signings who can't get in the team etc. I just try and look at the bigger picture:

 

1) We are going through a really tough opening fixture list.

2) Rafa is a brave man who won't chuck in new players unless he feels they are up to speed. That takes balls and even though it's frustrating, I admire him for sticking to his convictions.

 

I think we are just going to have to keep our heads down and see where we are in a few weeks where we might see fortunes turn with a kinder fixture list.

[Tsunami]

He looked absolutely fed up on Saturday; his body language was not good. I sit reasonably close to the dugout and he appeared very subdued. He’s probably counting the days until he can leave now. That second half was horrendous.

[geordiedean]

Watching Newcastle at the moment, it is a bit depressing and I can see the temptation to blame it on Rafa's negative tactics, transfer signings who can't get in the team etc. I just try and look at the bigger picture:

 

1) We are going through a really tough opening fixture list.

2) Rafa is a brave man who won't chuck in new players unless he feels they are up to speed. That takes balls and even though it's frustrating, I admire him for sticking to his convictions.

 

I think we are just going to have to keep our heads down and see where we are in a few weeks where we might see fortunes turn with a kinder fixture list.

Not playing your strongest 11 is a dangerous game to play especially with us because what we have in reserve is so inferior. If these guys are fit enough to be on the bench they should be fit enough to start a game

[joeyt]

You can be fit enough to be on the bench but not fit enough to start like

[Vinny Green Balls]

And people are entitled to call them out on it. They are not being persecuted, man.

 

Never said you couldn't, I'm just talking from my perspective. You may or may not have noticed that Tubes does my utter nut in, with his trillionth post about how Rafa should be walking away, and me asking him to shud up already.

 

Agreed. I just see some people applying the Fairness Doctrine to this situation like CNN does to anthropogenic climate-change deniers. That shit is problematic, because without the proper context, one could argue that there is one cult persecuting people for their views.

 

And news organizations like CNN are 100% correct in doing so. However silly or dangerous one's views, censorship is, of course, never the answer. What's funny is that the same people who are afforded an international platform, total freedom, to air their views, then cry persecution when they get called out, or someone refutes their claims You have a right to speak your mind, you don't have the right to not let others speak theirs in return. If you're going to post dumb shit, get used to being called one.

 

That's not the point. They are not correct in treating such views equally to accepted science, and creating controversy where there is none. Not about censorship, but reminding less-informed people that they are fringe conspiracy theories that are not taken seriously for a good reason. Massive difference.