Guest Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the fuck went on? And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly... Great comparison. That’s part of football. Happens every game. Refereeing decisions like that have no part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the fuck went on? And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly... Great comparison. That’s part of football. Happens every game. Refereeing decisions like that have no part. They have a part. Atleast in the world we live and have lived so far. If you want every decision to be 100% correct the whole game of football will be something completely different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it. Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the fuck went on? And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly... Great comparison. That’s part of football. Happens every game. Refereeing decisions like that have no part. They have a part. Atleast in the world we live and have lived so far. If you want every decision to be 100% correct the whole game of football will be something completely different. The referee’s job isn’t to have a bearing on the outcome of a match. It’s to call what happens between the two teams. You can have all the misplaced passes, poor shots, bad quality football you like, the referee had a fairly simple call there to give a penalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the fuck went on? And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly... Great comparison. That’s part of football. Happens every game. Refereeing decisions like that have no part. They have a part. Atleast in the world we live and have lived so far. If you want every decision to be 100% correct the whole game of football will be something completely different. The referee’s job isn’t to have a bearing on the outcome of a match. It’s to call what happens between the two teams. You can have all the misplaced passes, poor shots, bad quality football you like, the referee had a fairly simple call there to give a penalty. Yes and he made a mistake, that happens and has always happened. If you want to take human error out of it completely then you need VAR. I'm not sure what your point is. I was answering to Stifler who said VAR wont change anything and referees make mistakes just because they are horribly trained or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the fuck went on? And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly... Great comparison. That’s part of football. Happens every game. Refereeing decisions like that have no part. They have a part. Atleast in the world we live and have lived so far. If you want every decision to be 100% correct the whole game of football will be something completely different. The referee’s job isn’t to have a bearing on the outcome of a match. It’s to call what happens between the two teams. You can have all the misplaced passes, poor shots, bad quality football you like, the referee had a fairly simple call there to give a penalty. Yes and he made a mistake, that happens and has always happened. If you want to take human error out of it completely then you need VAR. I'm not sure what your point is. I was answering to Stifler who said VAR wont change anything and referees make mistakes just because they are horribly trained or something. VAR won't take human error out of it, as we saw with the world cup and particularly the final. It's just another human ref making decisions but with a video. It might reduce the error frequency though and catch a few of the most shocking decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The WC was infinitely more enjoyable seeing correct decisions being made. I thought it was one of the best WC in a long time. Yes, there were a few 50/50 calls but the refs can be trained to judge these things better. Without VAR they cannot be trained to see and judge handballs like what happened in the WC final because it happens too fast for them to see it. With video the judgment can be refined over time, much like the NBA and MLB continues to refine its judgment of what occurs on the field/court. Rules can change, interpretations can change, but with video we can reduce the variation of judgment, which is more important. The handball in the WC final can be used as an example of a correct decision or a wrong decision, and refs can be trained on that, and then they will use it as precedent in the future. If people don't like the interpretation then the rules can be changed. Hopefully the dinosaurs get outvoted and we get VAR in the PL next season. It's not only about reducing error frequency but reducing variation in judgment. Today one ref's judgment of what is a handball and another's is different because they see the game at different speeds and different views. With video, they can see the game at the same speed and be trained on the same footage to judge what is and isn't a handball. Over time this will reduce variation in judgment and will lead to more enjoyment because the focus will be on the action on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it. Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened. These things aren't the same. And Kenedy has to face the media scrutiny and questions constantly. Kenedy missing a penalty isn't a decision on his part. A referee looks at an incident and makes a decision. They get feedback from who, the referees panel, great. There is no reason why they can't explain decisions that are made. They get paid well enough and its fair to assess what they've done wrong and right. Whats wrong with a quick explanation of a decision, for clarity? As it is nobody knows why he didn't give the penalty. Refs here (Norway) sometimes get questioned after the game and are showed incidents on video being asked if they made the right decision or not with the benefit of hindsight. A few are cunts and refuse to admit fault, whilst a few has apologies to teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 So far so good with VAR in La Liga. We've had quite a few key decisions called correctly thanks to VAR, and it makes the game just much more enjoyable knowing that. It's still far from perfect. Still believe we need a system like the NFL where teams can also formally ask for a limited number of reviews, instead of just the ref. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I don't really believe in team reviews, surely the point should be to get as many decisions right as possible? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I don't really believe in team reviews, surely the point should be to get as many decisions right as possible? Definitely. It won’t be used often enough for challenges to be needed either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it. Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened. These things aren't the same. And Kenedy has to face the media scrutiny and questions constantly. Kenedy missing a penalty isn't a decision on his part. A referee looks at an incident and makes a decision. They get feedback from who, the referees panel, great. There is no reason why they can't explain decisions that are made. They get paid well enough and its fair to assess what they've done wrong and right. Whats wrong with a quick explanation of a decision, for clarity? As it is nobody knows why he didn't give the penalty. Refs here (Norway) sometimes get questioned after the game and are showed incidents on video being asked if they made the right decision or not with the benefit of hindsight. A few are cunts and refuse to admit fault, whilst a few has apologies to teams. Think that’s a bit mean spirited really. Its not like strikers are pulled in after a game and asked how they missed a sitter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it. Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened. These things aren't the same. And Kenedy has to face the media scrutiny and questions constantly. Kenedy missing a penalty isn't a decision on his part. A referee looks at an incident and makes a decision. They get feedback from who, the referees panel, great. There is no reason why they can't explain decisions that are made. They get paid well enough and its fair to assess what they've done wrong and right. Whats wrong with a quick explanation of a decision, for clarity? As it is nobody knows why he didn't give the penalty. Refs here (Norway) sometimes get questioned after the game and are showed incidents on video being asked if they made the right decision or not with the benefit of hindsight. A few are cunts and refuse to admit fault, whilst a few has apologies to teams. Think that’s a bit mean spirited really. Its not like strikers are pulled in after a game and asked how they missed a sitter They do that over here. Feel like post-match interviews with players and staff are very common, only a natural extension that they show incidents to ask them for their reaction to them, and see no reason for that to not be extended to referees as they are just as much part of the match as the players/staff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I don't really believe in team reviews, surely the point should be to get as many decisions right as possible? Well, the things that have been still called incorrectly are usually because the referee chose not to review them. I think a limited appeal system might help here. Then there's also plays that are so close/subjective to call that are always going to be controversial. But so far I'm really happy with VAR in La Liga, will see how it works throughout a long competition (i.e. if defenders have to adjust since we're having more penalties being called). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitely Content Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The WC was infinitely more enjoyable seeing correct decisions being made. 100% this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think most people would be a little bit easier on referees if they actually came out and gave their point of view after games like - explaining why they made key decisions they way they did and admitting where they've made mistakes and the reasons why. It's not like it's punishing them or anything, we know they're human and we know they'll make mistakes. Obviously people will still rage like, and some decisions will still be 'unforgivable', but it would potentially let fans understand the referees role more instead of being slightly anonymous daft cunts who fuck us up every week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 insane to me that VAR is available for the cup, but only at PL stadiums. what a fucking rubbish system,. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think most people would be a little bit easier on referees if they actually came out and gave their point of view after games like - explaining why they made key decisions they way they did and admitting where they've made mistakes and the reasons why. It's not like it's punishing them or anything, we know they're human and we know they'll make mistakes. Obviously people will still rage like, and some decisions will still be 'unforgivable', but it would potentially let fans understand the referees role more instead of being slightly anonymous daft cunts who fuck us up every week. This is it. You can't compare players and managers mistakes because they do get vilified and have no hiding place. There's a whole campaign to give referees respect FFS. Whilst I appreciate the sentiment of that, it's a joke that they're allowed to make such bullshit decisions then go and hide with no repercussions apart from a couple of lines in a news article. Kenedy got a whole article dedicated to his disappointing performance against Cardiff, didn't he? Exactly how often is a whole article dedicated to one referee's performance in a national circulation? I get your sentiment on referees being able to help themselves BTW Stifleaay. But to write off VAR as a result is insane. Anything to help there be more accountability and a chance to overturn a bullshit decision is okay in my book. Mental that you'd disregard VAR because they'll sometimes let an already bullshit decision stand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Another week of la liga, another week of almost zero ref drama. Really liking this. The only issue was the red card in the Sevilla derby but that was a subjective decision. VAR can't really help there. It's still weird to see players celebrating two minutes after scoring because the ref wanted to check VAR, though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Another week of la liga, another week of almost zero ref drama. Really liking this. The only issue was the red card in the Sevilla derby but that was a subjective decision. VAR can't really help there. It's still weird to see players celebrating two minutes after scoring because the ref wanted to check VAR, though! That's the biggest thing it takes away from the game, unfortunately. With regards to teams having X amount of appeals, could this not be abused to give a team a breather when they're on the ropes? Say we're winning 1-0 and the opposition are all over us in the dying minutes but we have two appeals left. Could we not just appeal any two decisions to force a stoppage and allow us to regroup? It seems open to abuse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Another week of la liga, another week of almost zero ref drama. Really liking this. The only issue was the red card in the Sevilla derby but that was a subjective decision. VAR can't really help there. It's still weird to see players celebrating two minutes after scoring because the ref wanted to check VAR, though! That's the biggest thing it takes away from the game, unfortunately. With regards to teams having X amount of appeals, could this not be abused to give a team a breather when they're on the ropes? Say we're winning 1-0 and the opposition are all over us in the dying minutes but we have two appeals left. Could we not just appeal any two decisions to force a stoppage and allow us to regroup? It seems open to abuse. You have a point regarding abusing challenges, I guess we could draw on yanks' experience with video refs on that regard. But overall, the occasional stoppage for VAR is a price I am willing to pay given how much we gain. Far fewer games decided by badly called penalties, offsides, cards, etc... It's so much more satisfying. Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Another week of la liga, another week of almost zero ref drama. Really liking this. The only issue was the red card in the Sevilla derby but that was a subjective decision. VAR can't really help there. It's still weird to see players celebrating two minutes after scoring because the ref wanted to check VAR, though! That's the biggest thing it takes away from the game, unfortunately. With regards to teams having X amount of appeals, could this not be abused to give a team a breather when they're on the ropes? Say we're winning 1-0 and the opposition are all over us in the dying minutes but we have two appeals left. Could we not just appeal any two decisions to force a stoppage and allow us to regroup? It seems open to abuse. Should still have strict rules about what can be appealed. Team on the ropes would rarely have anything that they could appeal if it was restricted to for example penalties and red cards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 The speed of getting to a decision should improve in a couple of years as well, understandable that they are taking a bit of time during its infancy to make sure the decision is as uncontestable as possible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Can't see how that's fair like. The rules should be the same for everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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