Sean Longstaff

[janpawel]

It was clear Tonali lacked an understanding of our team and tactics in the first few games. 

 

If I remember correctly, he had some good games and some quite poor games. He was also playing in a few different positions in midfield I'm sure (Milan away I remember him being close to the touchline on the left hand side) 

 

With Longstaff it feels like his job is just to 'steady eddie' the position, he doesn't really offer a lot defensively or offensively 

[Bellars]

Let's not forget how many minutes he was forced to play. Essentially two 90+ minute shifts / week. 

 

Maybe it's not a total coincidence that his best form was early in the season before the injury crisis and cup runs.

 

 

[The Butcher]

Aye, played way too much. Even when extremely out of form and that's not his fault.

[TRon]

I think you can always gauge a players worth roughly by how much interest there is in him, and what sort of clubs want to buy him.

[LFEE]

30 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

Disagree totally, but entitled to your opinion 

 

28 minutes ago, Upthemags said:

I don't mean to be rude but did we watch the same team last season? Opposing teams cut through our Longstaffian midfield like butter. That's not to say he didn't have a couple of nice games after Tonali was out/beforehand.

He came into the team that had conceded 7 goals in 4 games losing 3 and we went on a run of…

Brentford 1-0

AC Milan (A) 0-0

Sheffield Utd (A) 0-8 (scored)

Man City (Injured/Rested) 1-0

Burnley 2-0 

PSG 4-1 (scored)

WHU (A) 2-2

Palace 4-0 (scored)

 

Then subbed against Dortmund finally losing 0-1 at home.

 

He then played 

 

Wolves (A) 2-2

Man Utd (A) 0-3

Arsenal 1-0

 

Then we lost again against Dortmund 2-0 away.

 

W 7

D 3

L 2 both against UCL finalist 🙂

 

If that’s not a significant change of form after being introduced to the team I’m not sure what is TBH.

 

I think we should sell him this summer (1yr only left on contract) for PSR but let’s have it right. In EH’s system he clearly does a decent job.

 

Do I want him in the team or on the bench this season? Ideally not. Doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate what he’s done in the past whilst clearly running on fumes at times.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2024 by LFEE

[Kid Icarus]

The idea that they get stick just because they play badly isn't exactly true like. 

 

I think it's fairer to say that they maybe gain a reputation for not performing well, then they become an easy target after that almost regardless of how they play or whether they're to blame, until they overcome it. Then for some it sticks and that's it, forever.

 

Longstaff didn't perform well last season (output notwithstanding), but it definitely applies with Miggy at times and, I think that 100% applies to Dan Burn last season. You'd think he was having 3 Bramble moments a match the way some people went on. 

 

We all know what our fans are like for scapegoating. 

[Pilko]

He was crap for large parts of last season but he played nearly every minute through knocks and injuries because there was literally nobody else, so I can see why he'd be frustrated with the criticism to a degree. It is easy to forget the season we finished 4th that he was excellent and whenever he dropped out of the side we looked much worse for it.

 

8 goals in all comps last season wasn't a bad return either for someone who's apparently a shite, donkey work midfielder.

 

Said it loads of times but when he reverts to his rightful position as squad player and substitute & is playing without injury he'll look a lot better for it. He's no world beater but he can still be a very useful contributor for us.

[timnufc22]

39 minutes ago, huss9 said:

As with shola back in the day, this lad doesn't pick himself and is only as good as what he is.

 

I would argue Shola was very much bordering on lack of effort on the odd occasion, very much a Rashford-esq vibes at times between him and the fans. One of SBR's biggest mistakes was constantly picking him over LuaLua (which was even more baffling considering he identified years earlier that a pacey Bellamy type player alongside Shearer was the best combo).

 

Longstaff doesn't help himself as he often appears laboured and definitely dives far too much. But once he crosses the white line he should be supported as much as possible and you can't deny he's had some great games for us too.

[Upthemags]

4 minutes ago, LFEE said:

 

He came into the team that had conceded 7 goals in 4 games losing 3 and we went on a run of…

Brentford 1-0

AC Milan (A) 0-0

Sheffield Utd (A) 0-8 (scored)

Man City (Injured/Rested) 1-0

Burnley 2-0 

PSG 4-1 (scored)

WHU (A) 2-2

Palace 4-0 (scored)

 

The subbed against Dortmund finally losing 0-1 at home.

 

If that’s not a significant change of form after being introduced to the team I’m not sure what is TBH.

 

I think we should sell him this summer (1yr only left on contract) for PSR but let’s have it right. In EH’s system he clearly does a decent job.

 

Do I want him in the team or on the bench this season? Ideally not. Doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate what he’s done in the past whilst clearly running on fumes at times.

 

 

 

Didn't mean to get chippy if I came off that way. He definitely had a nice little run I recall once Sandro went down. And I recall it being, in the moment, the right choice to start him over Sandro during Sandro's struggles. From my perspective, he is neither technically capable, nor athletic, and usually, you'd like one of the two, and preferably both.

[Bimpy474]

By the way there's no dislike of the lad, I cheer him as much as I would Bruno for instance, just with more moaning.

 

However, alongside Miggy, Murphy and BDB to name a few, you can see they need to be upgraded. It's the unfortunate way of progression that some players will get squeezed out. 

 

As squad players they're fine, but that's rapidly coming to head as we do indeed upgrade.

[TRon]

7 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said:

By the way there's no dislike of the lad, I cheer him as much as I would Bruno for instance, just with more moaning.

 

However, alongside Miggy, Murphy and BDB to name a few, you can see they need to be upgraded. It's the unfortunate way of progression that some players will get squeezed out. 

 

As squad players they're fine, but that's rapidly coming to head as we do indeed upgrade.

 

We also have to realise that if we are keeping these players around for whatever reason, that does come at a cost of selling others who we might prefer to keep instead.

[Geordie_once_removed]

2 hours ago, gbandit said:

It's such bizarre copy, I like Caulkin's writing as well

I'm not a fan of his style at all but that piece doesn't read like him at all. Very bizarre.

 

Re: Caulkin, I think him moving to The Athletic ruined him for me. His style was refreshing and different when you would get one piece on Newcastle every couple of months. But I find it quite grating when you have an article a week. Also his celebrating not know tactics and statistics etc. also annoys me given sports writing, where this is part and parcel, is literally his job. You can choose not to focus on it but to celebrate your ignorance annoys me.

[LFEE]

3 minutes ago, Upthemags said:

Didn't mean to get chippy if I came off that way. He definitely had a nice little run I recall once Sandro went down. And I recall it being, in the moment, the right choice to start him over Sandro during Sandro's struggles. From my perspective, he is neither technically capable, nor athletic, and usually, you'd like one of the two, and preferably both.

No offence taken 👍🏻 I did nearly add I attended all those games home & away apart from watching Wolves & West Ham on the TV.

 

I’m not a fan of his to be clear. I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make. I can see his limitations but not much he can do about them in a physical sense. The criticism for him should always be evened out by the fact he was willing to be overplayed to help the team and was injured from December but tried his best. He can’t help how fast he is etc but regardless without him that first half of the season before his injury he made a significant contribution to the team. Most of it the unseen work that doesn’t always catch the eye. Especially if not at the actual game.

[Upthemags]

10 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said:

By the way there's no dislike of the lad, I cheer him as much as I would Bruno for instance, just with more moaning.

 

However, alongside Miggy, Murphy and BDB to name a few, you can see they need to be upgraded. It's the unfortunate way of progression that some players will get squeezed out. 

 

As squad players they're fine, but that's rapidly coming to head as we do indeed upgrade.

BDB did a job latter half last season to be fair

[Upthemags]

1 minute ago, LFEE said:

No offence taken 👍🏻 I did nearly add I attended all those games home & away apart from watching Wolves & West Ham on the TV.

 

I’m not a fan of his to be clear. I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make. I can see his limitations but not much he can do about them in a physical sense. The criticism for him should always be evened out by the fact he was willing to be overplayed to help the team and was injured from December but tried his best. He can’t help how fast he is etc but regardless without him that first half of the season before his injury he made a significant contribution to the team. Most of it the unseen work that doesn’t always catch the eye. Especially if not at the actual game.

Absolutely - should have hastened to add that he was put in a tough spot last season. Don't doubt he did what he could and it wasn't his fault his replacement was done the entire year

[Terrymac1966]

Tonali will be a different animal when we see him again. Italian football is slow and gives you time. Tonali will be a lot fitter now understand fully how the team plays and be completely 'Eddied' Longstaff will play as his 'second in position'

[AyeDubbleYoo]

10 minutes ago, LFEE said:

No offence taken 👍🏻 I did nearly add I attended all those games home & away apart from watching Wolves & West Ham on the TV.

 

I’m not a fan of his to be clear. I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make. I can see his limitations but not much he can do about them in a physical sense. The criticism for him should always be evened out by the fact he was willing to be overplayed to help the team and was injured from December but tried his best. He can’t help how fast he is etc but regardless without him that first half of the season before his injury he made a significant contribution to the team. Most of it the unseen work that doesn’t always catch the eye. Especially if not at the actual game.

 

I'm not sure I fully buy this unseen work thing, because I watch the games and don't see it. But happy to accept that I'm biased against him and might not be able to fairly assess it. 

[LFEE]

14 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I'm not sure I fully buy this unseen work thing, because I watch the games and don't see it. But happy to accept that I'm biased against him and might not be able to fairly assess it. 

You didn’t see it regarding Jacob Murphy either 🙂

 

No good trying to judge anything fairly if admittedly bias against it.

 

At least you admit though 🙂👍🏻 Respect!

[AyeDubbleYoo]

7 minutes ago, LFEE said:

You didn’t see it regarding Jacob Murphy either 🙂

 

No good trying to judge anything fairly if admittedly bias against it.

 

At least you admit though 🙂👍🏻 Respect!

 

I admit I notice his mistakes primarily, because I've spent so long watching him making them.

 

Judging him on unseen work is fundamentally difficult I guess, stats would be the way to do that if I could be bothered to look them up. 

 

Murphy was also hopeless for a long time

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2024 by AyeDubbleYoo

[LFEE]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I admit I notice his mistakes primarily, because I've spent so long watching him making them.

 

Judging him on unseen work is fundamentally difficult I guess, stats would be the way to do that if I could be bothered to look them up. 

 

I disagree. Stats don’t pick up unseen work. Hence why they call it unseen. I don’t know of any stats that highlight him taking up certain positions on the pitch in certain scenarios or slowing down an oppositions attack  by blocking certain passing lanes etc. Maybe ‘I’m wrong and they are more sophisticated these days.

 

Personally I’ll always take my own eyes over stats when judging a player. The irony is our judgement of Longstaff is not that dissimilar from the regular discussions we have. I think we both see the same faults. It’s our patience of his limitations and understanding of his fitness circumstances and his appreciation of him doing the dirty work is probably where we differ. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Well if the eyes or the stats don't pick it up, the argument will remain unresolved

 

Get the overall point though. 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2024 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Holmesy]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

The idea that they get stick just because they play badly isn't exactly true like. 

 

I think it's fairer to say that they maybe gain a reputation for not performing well, then they become an easy target after that almost regardless of how they play or whether they're to blame, until they overcome it. Then for some it sticks and that's it, forever.

 

Longstaff didn't perform well last season (output notwithstanding), but it definitely applies with Miggy at times and, I think that 100% applies to Dan Burn last season. You'd think he was having 3 Bramble moments a match the way some people went on. 

 

We all know what our fans are like for scapegoating. 

I was one of Burn's biggest critics last season but like you say, there were only one or two games where there were blatant errors. The rest of it was positional and pace based and that wasn't really his fault. He was massively exposed for a run of about 7-8 games and it cost us goals. But despite me hurling vitriol at BDB out of pure frustration, the blame laid at the feet of the manager for persisting with him. 

 

But then moved into his correct position, Burn was probably our standout player towards the end of the season. 

 

Unfortunately for some of these players, we're in a transition from one thing to another. We have some world-beaters who are playing alongside hangovers from our previous iteration and probably making them appear worse than they actually are. 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2024 by Holmesy

[Skeletor]

Criticism of his performances is fine. We all know he is a limited player. But nothing he's done deserves the vitriol in all the years he's played for us.

[LFEE]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Well if the eyes or the stats don't pick it up, the argument will remain unresolved

 

Get the overall point though. 

 

 

 

And don’t forget I’m in the sell this summer camp whereas you think we need him for cover!  So please don’t ever take my defence of him as me being a fan of his!

 

 

Edited August 7, 2024 by LFEE

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, LFEE said:

And don’t forget I’m in the sell this summer camp whereas you think we need him for cover!  So please don’t ever take my defence of him as me being a fan of his!

 

I'd rather have him replaced, but I think we need someone.