Colos Short and Curlies Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm going to try and dig around a bit, but a very quick glance around does suggest that Belgium wont be an isolated case. Between 2010 and 2015 SD charged UK VAT on all sales to EU countries, HMRC recommended that they contacted all 27 countries to clarify the position - SD appealed against this and won in a UK court but that doesn't mean that an EU court wouldn't over rule this (As the Belgians have done). SD have a distribution centre in Austria so I can definitely see that being an issue (and the Austrian tax regime is tough). France and Germany unfortunately I think will be pretty much covered as I think SD have registered companies there so not much in the way of sales from the UK. Fingers crossed Italy get interested, if so expect this total bill to be north of €1bn, the question would then be how much is VAT (and in part reclaimable form HMRC) and how much is fines and interest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm going to try and dig around a bit, but a very quick glance around does suggest that Belgium wont be an isolated case. Between 2010 and 2015 SD charged UK VAT on all sales to EU countries, HMRC recommended that they contacted all 27 countries to clarify the position - SD appealed against this and won in a UK court but that doesn't mean that an EU court wouldn't over rule this (As the Belgians have done). SD have a distribution centre in Austria so I can definitely see that being an issue (and the Austrian tax regime is tough). France and Germany unfortunately I think will be pretty much covered as I think SD have registered companies there so not much in the way of sales from the UK. Fingers crossed Italy get interested, if so expect this total bill to be north of €1bn, the question would then be how much is VAT (and in part reclaimable form HMRC) and how much is fines and interest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm going to try and dig around a bit, but a very quick glance around does suggest that Belgium wont be an isolated case. Between 2010 and 2015 SD charged UK VAT on all sales to EU countries, HMRC recommended that they contacted all 27 countries to clarify the position - SD appealed against this and won in a UK court but that doesn't mean that an EU court wouldn't over rule this (As the Belgians have done). SD have a distribution centre in Austria so I can definitely see that being an issue (and the Austrian tax regime is tough). France and Germany unfortunately I think will be pretty much covered as I think SD have registered companies there so not much in the way of sales from the UK. Fingers crossed Italy get interested, if so expect this total bill to be north of €1bn, the question would then be how much is VAT (and in part reclaimable form HMRC) and how much is fines and interest Any idea how much he'll claim back from HMRC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 27% fall in shite direct share price. Excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Eh? It’s down 9.95% and recovering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm going to try and dig around a bit, but a very quick glance around does suggest that Belgium wont be an isolated case. Between 2010 and 2015 SD charged UK VAT on all sales to EU countries, HMRC recommended that they contacted all 27 countries to clarify the position - SD appealed against this and won in a UK court but that doesn't mean that an EU court wouldn't over rule this (As the Belgians have done). SD have a distribution centre in Austria so I can definitely see that being an issue (and the Austrian tax regime is tough). France and Germany unfortunately I think will be pretty much covered as I think SD have registered companies there so not much in the way of sales from the UK. Fingers crossed Italy get interested, if so expect this total bill to be north of €1bn, the question would then be how much is VAT (and in part reclaimable form HMRC) and how much is fines and interest Any idea how much he'll claim back from HMRC? Its really difficult to put a decent guess on it as what we don't know is the breakdown of the £600m bill. Trying to be a bit realistic, 25% of the bill being interest etc would be sensible so £480 would be VAT. Belgian VAT is 21% and as most of these sales were post 2011 UK VAT has been 20% for the full time - the UK VAT paid on sales would be £457m. Putting together SD would have to find the £120m fine/interest and £23m additional VAT (Assuming HMRC accept that the VAT was paid in error and not as a malicious attempt to pay less VAT in which case they would levy their own fines...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Eh? It’s down 9.95% and recovering. Just what I read in that article in the guardian above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm going to try and dig around a bit, but a very quick glance around does suggest that Belgium wont be an isolated case. Between 2010 and 2015 SD charged UK VAT on all sales to EU countries, HMRC recommended that they contacted all 27 countries to clarify the position - SD appealed against this and won in a UK court but that doesn't mean that an EU court wouldn't over rule this (As the Belgians have done). SD have a distribution centre in Austria so I can definitely see that being an issue (and the Austrian tax regime is tough). France and Germany unfortunately I think will be pretty much covered as I think SD have registered companies there so not much in the way of sales from the UK. Fingers crossed Italy get interested, if so expect this total bill to be north of €1bn, the question would then be how much is VAT (and in part reclaimable form HMRC) and how much is fines and interest Any idea how much he'll claim back from HMRC? Its really difficult to put a decent guess on it as what we don't know is the breakdown of the £600m bill. Trying to be a bit realistic, 25% of the bill being interest etc would be sensible so £480 would be VAT. Belgian VAT is 21% and as most of these sales were post 2011 UK VAT has been 20% for the full time - the UK VAT paid on sales would be £457m. Putting together SD would have to find the £120m fine/interest and £23m additional VAT (Assuming HMRC accept that the VAT was paid in error and not as a malicious attempt to pay less VAT in which case they would levy their own fines...... appreciated. Would the same apply to any other countries that do the same? I mean if other countries slapped him with a bill? He is currently down £143 mill? Is that right? So if the impact on share price means the price of repurchasing is reduced by more than £143M he's done okay. I'm not suggestig he's an evil genius that planned this all along, I'm just not convinced it's anything to celebrate. £457milion taken from HMRC will lead to an increased number of customers for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm going to try and dig around a bit, but a very quick glance around does suggest that Belgium wont be an isolated case. Between 2010 and 2015 SD charged UK VAT on all sales to EU countries, HMRC recommended that they contacted all 27 countries to clarify the position - SD appealed against this and won in a UK court but that doesn't mean that an EU court wouldn't over rule this (As the Belgians have done). SD have a distribution centre in Austria so I can definitely see that being an issue (and the Austrian tax regime is tough). France and Germany unfortunately I think will be pretty much covered as I think SD have registered companies there so not much in the way of sales from the UK. Fingers crossed Italy get interested, if so expect this total bill to be north of €1bn, the question would then be how much is VAT (and in part reclaimable form HMRC) and how much is fines and interest Any idea how much he'll claim back from HMRC? Its really difficult to put a decent guess on it as what we don't know is the breakdown of the £600m bill. Trying to be a bit realistic, 25% of the bill being interest etc would be sensible so £480 would be VAT. Belgian VAT is 21% and as most of these sales were post 2011 UK VAT has been 20% for the full time - the UK VAT paid on sales would be £457m. Putting together SD would have to find the £120m fine/interest and £23m additional VAT (Assuming HMRC accept that the VAT was paid in error and not as a malicious attempt to pay less VAT in which case they would levy their own fines...... appreciated. Would the same apply to any other countries that do the same? Absolutely. The UK is one of the lowest VAT rates in the EU, Germany is lower at 19% but from memory that is the only one less than 20% and I'm ignoring any zero rated goods in the UK as I don't think SD will sell many of these but if they do then the impact is a lot worse than my first example (yay). Its the fines that get you, Belgium is one of the more lenient countries. I keep mentioning Italy and this being massive, if they think that its a deliberate attempt to withhold tax there the fines can be 400% of the original VAT. As I mentioned on Friday I'm unwinding a total of €2m in VAT etc across the EU and this was on £700k paid to HMRC originally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On the subject of fat poor people shopping at SD, he's not alone in providing shite for the ever-growing poverty market. You've got home bargains and B&M, to name two. Just because you can only afford to feed your kids on Pot Noodles and Parma Violets, doesn't mean you don't deserve a garden swing-seat to park your fat arse in, when it's just too hot to move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 This arsehole bought Blockbuster yet to turn it into the Netflix of the high street? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chicken little Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On the subject of fat poor people shopping at SD, he's not alone in providing shite for the ever-growing poverty market. You've got home bargains and B&M, to name two. Just because you can only afford to feed your kids on Pot Noodles and Parma Violets, doesn't mean you don't deserve a garden swing-seat to park your fat arse in, when it's just too hot to move. hahaha take that, poor people! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On the subject of fat poor people shopping at SD, he's not alone in providing shite for the ever-growing poverty market. You've got home bargains and B&M, to name two. Just because you can only afford to feed your kids on Pot Noodles and Parma Violets, doesn't mean you don't deserve a garden swing-seat to park your fat arse in, when it's just too hot to move. hahaha take that, poor people! I would have thought my extensive knowledge on the inventory of B+M would identify me as poor, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm ignoring any zero rated goods in the UK as I don't think SD will sell many of these but if they do then the impact is a lot worse than my first example (yay). Kid's clothes & shoes are zero rated in the UK aren't they? Don't know about the rest of the EU, but this suggests not. Would think that's a significant percentage of sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm ignoring any zero rated goods in the UK as I don't think SD will sell many of these but if they do then the impact is a lot worse than my first example (yay). Kid's clothes & shoes are zero rated in the UK aren't they? Don't know about the rest of the EU, but this suggests not. Would think that's a significant percentage of sales. "2.3 million children found to be in persistent poverty", would suggest you're correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I'm ignoring any zero rated goods in the UK as I don't think SD will sell many of these but if they do then the impact is a lot worse than my first example (yay). Kid's clothes & shoes are zero rated in the UK aren't they? Don't know about the rest of the EU, but this suggests not. Would think that's a significant percentage of sales. The UK and Ireland are the only countries who have a zero rate for VAT, it is a reduced rate across the EU - on average this would be around 10%. So yes, if children's clothing make up a significant amount of EU sales then the amount that they can reclaim from HMRC in proportion to the total bill goes down dramatically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 How's child poverty in Europe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 kids from poor families wanting sports gear - with a label. SD is where they'll go. again, not something u can criticise them for. i can choose not to shop at SD. not everyone has to boycott SD just because we hate ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Down over 8% today https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-29/sports-direct-s-scattergun-strategy-tax-bill-alarm-analysts?utm_campaign=news&utm_medium=bd&utm_source=applenews Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 kids from poor families wanting sports gear - with a label. SD is where they'll go. again, not something u can criticise them for. i can choose not to shop at SD. not everyone has to boycott SD just because we hate ashley. Utter guff. Nobody has to shop at SD. Nobody has no other choices. Anybody can avoid shopping there if they so wish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 kids from poor families wanting sports gear - with a label. SD is where they'll go. again, not something u can criticise them for. i can choose not to shop at SD. not everyone has to boycott SD just because we hate ashley. No but you can blame them for being poor. APPARENTLY. Like I say, poverty is a growing market. And it is sensible business practice (in our current fucked up system) to exploit it. Ashley is probably a god amongst men in those circles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 kids from poor families wanting sports gear - with a label. SD is where they'll go. again, not something u can criticise them for. i can choose not to shop at SD. not everyone has to boycott SD just because we hate ashley. Utter guff. Nobody has to shop at SD. Nobody has no other choices. Anybody can avoid shopping there if they so wish. yes they can, but if they're not interested in nufc, why should they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Do people in Liverpool who aren't interested in LFC buy The Sun? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Howay man, Wullie, not even close to being the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Howay man, Wullie, not even close to being the same thing. What? Sacrifice your morning boobfeast, or clothing your children? I'm not sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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