Nine Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I think it’s pretty straightforward, ASM needs to adapt his game and incorporate himself into the attacking phases of our game better than just trying to take 4/5 players himself or just cut in and shoot. Remains to be seen if he can do this or more to the point, if Howe thinks he’s coachable enough to adapt.. the player needs to drop his ego down a few levels before he can even begin imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 hours ago, gjohnson said: How's the bacon? PFMs live by this as it's an easy way out That's a bollocks thing to say in this instance. Not least because the Allardyces of the world manipulate and hide behind statistics all the while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said: Given the fact he doesn't really contribute off the ball and gets dispossessed more times than 99% of the league, he really needs to be contributing to like ~15 goals a season. The kind of numbers Bowen and Barnes are hitting. I don't think that's right. I swear I'd seen stats where he is way out Infront as the best dribbler in the league. A quick Google gave me this... "His completion stats make even better reading. Of his 225 dribbles, 139 of them have been successful" 4 May 2022 Edited July 25, 2022 by alexf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, alexf said: I don't think that's right. I swear I'd seen stats where he is way out Infront as the best dribbler in the league. A quick Google gave me this... "His completion stats make even better reading. Of his 225 dribbles, 139 of them have been successful" 4 May 2022 This stat makes him sound more effective than he is in reality, he must attempt dribbles 4/5x more than a lot of wingers in the league. As the old saying goes - if you throw enough shit eventually some will stick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Nine said: This stat makes him sound more effective than he is in reality, he must attempt dribbles 4/5x more than a lot of wingers in the league. As the old saying goes - if you throw enough shit eventually some will stick. https://www.kickest.it/en/premier-league/stats/players/successful-dribbles Abit more data here. What's clear to my eye, even without the stats l, is we have one of, if not the best, dribbler in the league. Get him doing it higher up the pitch 1v1 will result in more goals and assists. We have a great talent in our squad and it's really annoying this theme on here lately that he's some sort of problem. Hopefully now that the club is moving in the right direction he will perform even better and his output will increase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, alexf said: https://www.kickest.it/en/premier-league/stats/players/successful-dribbles Abit more data here. What's clear to my eye, even without the stats l, is we have one of, if not the best, dribbler in the league. Get him doing it higher up the pitch 1v1 will result in more goals and assists. We have a great talent in our squad and it's really annoying this theme on here lately that he's some sort of problem. Hopefully now that the club is moving in the right direction he will perform even better and his output will increase. That’s the key, getting him higher up the pitch. He plays so deep as we do, he has to take everyone on and we rarely have more than two options further forward for him. Imagine if he had just a full-back to beat to cut in and shoot, or cross, or he was in a two vs 3 and could try and slip in someone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, alexf said: https://www.kickest.it/en/premier-league/stats/players/successful-dribbles Abit more data here. What's clear to my eye, even without the stats l, is we have one of, if not the best, dribbler in the league. Get him doing it higher up the pitch 1v1 will result in more goals and assists. We have a great talent in our squad and it's really annoying this theme on here lately that he's some sort of problem. Hopefully now that the club is moving in the right direction he will perform even better and his output will increase. Of course he has talent and I agree he’d be alot more effective if he started his runs further up. As I said before he needs to adapt his entire game though, I’m just not sure that he can.. even pushed further up he needs to learn decisive attacking actions rather than just playing like someone on fifa. Imagine those runs but with a decently timed pass on the end of them rather than just running into the 3rd defender that’s on him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, 80 said: That's a bollocks thing to say in this instance. Not least because the Allardyces of the world manipulate and hide behind statistics all the while. Can you explain what it means though ? I googled PFMs and it was nowt to do with football. Edited July 25, 2022 by madras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, alexf said: https://www.kickest.it/en/premier-league/stats/players/successful-dribbles Ryan Fraser had one successful dribble last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, madras said: Can you explain what it means though ? I googled PMF and it was nowt to do with football. Proper manager, football! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Pata said: Ryan Fraser had one successful dribble last season. That was when he first gazed at Dan Burn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoneys Tache Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I’ve been saying for a while that he’s the new ketsbaia but the Georgian loon played in a much better team than ASM has so far and therefore his quirks were a bit more apparent more quickly. Running down blind alleys and losing the ball is a trait they both have / had, and so is limited end product. saying that selling your best attacking player makes no sense only applies if your best attacking player is actually effective. ASM has his moments, but not many and if he’s replaced by someone better then it makes perfect sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mahoneys Tache said: I’ve been saying for a while that he’s the new ketsbaia but the Georgian loon played in a much better team than ASM has so far and therefore his quirks were a bit more apparent more quickly. Running down blind alleys and losing the ball is a trait they both have / had, and so is limited end product. saying that selling your best attacking player makes no sense only applies if your best attacking player is actually effective. ASM has his moments, but not many and if he’s replaced by someone better then it makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure Howe would sell him if there was any genuine interest from somewhere. I wonder what sort of money it would take for us to let him go? I reckon around £25-30m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, TRon said: I'm pretty sure Howe would sell him if there was any genuine interest from somewhere. I wonder what sort of money it would take for us to let him go? I reckon around £25-30m. I suspect you’d need to double that… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, SteV said: I suspect you’d need to double that… Not if you want the sale to go through. No is going to pay £50m for ASM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bompeter Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, TRon said: I'm pretty sure Howe would sell him if there was any genuine interest from somewhere. I wonder what sort of money it would take for us to let him go? I reckon around £25-30m. What has Howe said or done that makes you ”pretty sure” he’d be happy to sell him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, madras said: Can you explain what it means though ? I googled PFMs and it was nowt to do with football. My interpretation was that he was accusing you of having same level of thought as 'proper football men' like Steve Bruce and Graeme Souness, and aren't enlightened enough to see the clarity and wisdom statistics offer. GSCE Sociology logic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, TRon said: Not if you want the sale to go through. No is going to pay £50m for ASM. Look at what we’ve been quoted for various attacking players. We’d have to really, really want rid to let him to go for that kind of price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, alexf said: I don't think that's right. I swear I'd seen stats where he is way out Infront as the best dribbler in the league. A quick Google gave me this... "His completion stats make even better reading. Of his 225 dribbles, 139 of them have been successful" 4 May 2022 He's in the 99th percentile of wingers/forwards for being dispossessed. Also in the 99th percentile (top all in all I think) for successful dribbles. He's obviously very good running with the ball but he needs to make better decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, TRon said: Not if you want the sale to go through. No is going to pay £50m for ASM. I reckon Chelsea might come close, maybe even a swap deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoneys Tache Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: He's in the 99th percentile of wingers/forwards for being dispossessed. Also in the 99th percentile (top all in all I think) for successful dribbles. He's obviously very good running with the ball but he needs to make better decisions. I’d be interested what the criteria are for successful dribbles. Getting past players and looking flash is one thing but then doing nowt effective with the ball after makes it all a bit redundant. Any bull mastiff in the world can dribble all day long but I wouldnt put old Fido in a shirt and set him off against Leicester City. Edited July 25, 2022 by Mahoneys Tache Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, Bompeter said: What has Howe said or done that makes you ”pretty sure” he’d be happy to sell him? That's just my opinion, I think Howe being a good manager likes players who are a bit more intelligent and release the ball earlier rather than take on 2 players then lose the ball trying to beat the 3rd. He's not part of the French international set up because of those failings as well. He's got loads of talent but he wastes it a lot of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoneys Tache Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, TRon said: That's just my opinion, I think Howe being a good manager likes players who are a bit more intelligent and release the ball earlier rather than take on 2 players then lose the ball trying to beat the 3rd. He's not part of the French international set up because of those failings as well. He's got loads of talent but he wastes it a lot of the time. i think it would be a no brainier if someone threw stupid money at us for him and there was a more effective player waiting in the wings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 29 minutes ago, Ben said: I reckon Chelsea might come close, maybe even a swap deal. If the rumours of Chelsea being interested actually turn out to be true....I'll be very surprised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Find it a bit odd how keen some are to see him offloaded. Let’s see how he does under a full season under EH. Some of you might have second thoughts. 5 subs this season so if nothing else he could change a game. Flair wingers will always be infuriating at times but it’s great when someone gets you out your seat also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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