Heron Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: You're nuts mate. I'll leave it at that. We won, I'm happy, and I'm happy with ASM's performance, including his work rate. I'm not gonna bring the mood down arguing in those circumstances I don't intend to "bring the mood down" just my observations. Anyone saying he belongs in our first 11 is wrong for me and seemingly for Eddie Howe too. He doesn't do enough to warrant a lack of effort. By contrast Miggy is adored for his high intensity, no bullshit, part of the team mentality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Couple of times he got his head up and played some great passes to launch the counter attack and linked up well with Isak also. Trying to make out he did anything wrong today or because he didn't score a worldie just sums up the weird attitude some fans have towards him. It's the Ben Arfa effect of, because they sometimes can be unplayable on their best day, the expectation level is unrealistic compared to other players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon_Geordie Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Thought ASM was great today. Mixed his game up, combined with teammates, looked more tactically aware and made a fucking tackle or two also! Being coached I think it's called... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, alexf said: Couple of times he got his head up and played some great passes to launch the counter attack and linked up well with Isak also. Trying to make out he did anything wrong today or because he didn't score a worldie just sums up the weird attitude some fans have towards him. It's the Ben Arfa effect of, because they sometimes can be unplayable on their best day, the expectation level is unrealistic compared to other players. Don't agree. People give ASM slack cause he's talented. This isn't afforded to Sean Longstaff for example. An entirely fucked up mentality. I know who makes it in my first 11, and Eddie Howes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Heron said: Don't agree. People give ASM slack cause he's talented. This isn't afforded to Sean Longstaff for example. An entirely fucked up mentality. I know who makes it in my first 11, and Eddie Howes. Sean Longstaff would never get shite for a performance like ASM's today, he really has to fuck up to be attacked by (probably intoxicated) fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Heron said: I don't intend to "bring the mood down" just my observations. Anyone saying he belongs in our first 11 is wrong for me and seemingly for Eddie Howe too. He doesn't do enough to warrant a lack of effort. By contrast Miggy is adored for his high intensity, no bullshit, part of the team mentality. I definitely think he should be in the first eleven pal. But we all have different opinions. He's not so much as popular on this forum as he is on other platforms, and it always seems when players are criticised he gets plenty even when he does well, I think because he shines under a donkey like Steve Bruce we all remember that superstar, but, since all these lads that Bruce used to have are now trained correctly, they're all much fitter, sharper, mentally tuned, we now see not just that one player shine, they're all at good levels, I'm one of ASM biggest advocates on here, I think most of the players under 12 months of Howe have adapted and reached their top levels in terms of fitness mentality and physically, Maximin is still catching up, but he is 100% capable, it might just be hes taking longer, cast your mind back to Man City, he was the best player on both sides. Honestly turn your focus to other players, now and then, I know what it's like, I go ape when Wood, Murphy, even Lascelles are in the side, gets on my tits, Maxi is not in those levels of coming on and offering absolutely fuck all. All said in a good heart pal?? Edited January 16, 2023 by mighty__mag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Can barely believe what I’m reading like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Pata said: Sean Longstaff would never get shite for a performance like ASM's today, he really has to fuck up to be attacked by (probably intoxicated) fans. Longstaff did more than Maxi today and also got less support and more stick. That's fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Just now, Heron said: Longstaff did more than Maxi today and also got less support and more stick. That's fact. Gan to bed mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Heron said: Longstaff did more than Maxi today and also got less support and more stick. That's fact. No it’s not. It’s your opinion, and that’s a fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, mighty__mag said: I definitely think he should be in the first eleven pal. But we all have different opinions. He's not so much as popular on this forum as he is on other platforms, and it always seems when players are criticised he gets plenty even when he does well, I think because he shines under a donkey like Steve Bruce we all remember that superstar, but, since all these lads that Bruce used to have are now trained correctly, they're all much fitter, sharper, mentally tuned, we now see not just that one player shine, they're all at good levels, I'm one of ASM biggest advocates on here, I think most of the players under 12 months of Howe have adapted and reached their top levels in terms of fitness mentality and physically, Maximin is still catching up, but he is 100% capable, it might just be hes taking longer, cast your mind back to Man City, he was the best player on both sides. Honestly turn your focus to other players, now and then, I know what it's like, I go ape when Wood, Murphy, even Lascelles gets on my tits, Maxi is not in those levels of coming on and offering absolutely fuck all. All said in a good heart pal?? Fair dues fella. I'm objective. Maximins aren't my kinda player. This forum treats Ben Arfa like a god but he achieved fuck all speaks volumes. Being talented and a baller don't necessarily cut it for me. Being part of a team that are champions does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Unbelievable said: No it’s not. It’s your opinion, and that’s a fact. Maxis name was sang. Longstaffs wasn't. No groans or boos for Maxis fuck ups, some for longstaffs. That IS fact. Edited January 16, 2023 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 @HeronIt's just different when it comes to talented players. Take Messi as the example of maybe the best ever, he regularly loses the ball statistically more than most back in his prime, but you forgive it because you know he is capable or scoring the winning goal etc. Longstaff, if he's the example you wana give the other way, is frustrating because he's possibly playing at his maximum or ceiling. So when he's constantly missing chances like recently you kind assume that's just his standard and he's not magically going to be able to create something. ASM on the flip side has proven many times that he can create moments of unbelievable individual quality so if he's not at his best, you still know in the back of your mind that he's still capable of a special moment. However he's also a player that has struggled with injuries and fitness and therefore game sharpness and is trying to adjust to the managers style. I will agree with you that maybe he isn't suited to Howe's future vision or current ideal 11, but I disagree with going so far the other way and being abit negative about his performance today when I think it's clear he is trying to adjust his game for the benefit of the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, alexf said: @HeronIt's just different when it comes to talented players. Take Messi as the example of maybe the best ever, he regularly loses the ball statistically more than most back in his prime, but you forgive it because you know he is capable or scoring the winning goal etc. Longstaff, if he's the example you wana give the other way, is frustrating because he's possibly playing at his maximum or ceiling. So when he's constantly missing chances like recently you kind assume that's just his standard and he's not magically going to be able to create something. ASM on the flip side has proven many times that he can create moments of unbelievable individual quality so if he's not at his best, you still know in the back of your mind that he's still capable of a special moment. However he's also a player that has struggled with injuries and fitness and therefore game sharpness and is trying to adjust to the managers style. I will agree with you that maybe he isn't suited to Howe's future vision or current ideal 11, but I disagree with going so far the other way and being abit negative about his performance today when I think it's clear he is trying to adjust his game for the benefit of the team. Fair assessment... However, how often, percentage wise, does ASM win us games compared with say Messi. Messi I'd argue about 70%, Maximin is 10% tops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Heron said: Maxis name was sang. Longstaffs wasn't. No groans or boos for Maxis fuck ups, some for longstaffs. That IS fact. Longstaff doing more is an opinion mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 You saying ASM isn't as good as Messi? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Heron said: Fair assessment... However, how often, percentage wise, does ASM win us games compared with say Messi. Messi I'd argue about 70%, Maximin is 10% tops. Fair. But I think my memory might be skewered by the years under Bruce where he literally at times felt like the only goals threat many times. Btw I wasn't comparing to Messi. I was just trying to give the extreme example. ? Edit. I do remember there was a ridiculous stat back then where we lost every game he didn't play and won quite a few when did. Edited January 16, 2023 by alexf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Unbelievable said: Longstaff doing more is an opinion mate It is. The above is fact though. Longstaff absolutely did more. Even if you assess the equivalent time on the pitch, more effort, more tackles, more passes - would be surprised if any of those stats were in ASMs favour. Granted they're different styles of player, but one is performing to the best of his ability and one isn't. Edited January 16, 2023 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Just now, alexf said: Fair. But I think my memory might be skewered by the years under Bruce where he literally at times felt like the only goals threat many times. Btw I wasn't comparing to Messi. I was just trying to give the extreme example. ? No, that's right and fair. My point is we cannot afford luxuries and certainly one's that aren't even that luxurious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Pata said: You saying ASM isn't as good as Messi? Obviously he isn't. That is not the point I was making. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Unfortunately for ASM I think we're a worse team when he plays, we lack cohesion and intensity when he's on the pitch. Compare his performance today with Mitoma for Brighton yesterday playing in the same position, I know who I would prefer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. TC Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 This is totally mad. He played really well, barely gave the ball away, nearly scored and gave us a huge outlet. The only thing he did wrong was lie on the floor in pain for five minutes while his team mates passed around him, but that doesn't take everything away from an all round, unselfish and incisive contribution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, Heron said: It is. The above is fact though. Longstaff absolutely did more. Even if you assess the equivalent time on the pitch, more effort, more tackles, more passes - would be surprised if any of those stats were in ASMs favour. Granted they're different styles of player, but one is performing to the best of his ability and one isn't. Why would you expect a winger to have more tackles or passes than a central midfielder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Dr. TC said: This is totally mad. He played really well, barely gave the ball away, nearly scored and gave us a huge outlet. The only thing he did wrong was lie on the floor in pain for five minutes while his team mates passed around him, but that doesn't take everything away from an all round, unselfish and incisive contribution. Yep, that was annoying but think once he knew we had the ball he started to get up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: Why would you expect a winger to have more tackles or passes than a central midfielder? Fair. But I'd also expect more assists, successful dribbles, assists and/or goals. Maxi' provides little of these too as stats suggest *according to fotmob* 12/14 successful passes 0/4 successful dribbles 1/1 successful tackles 0 goals 0 assists 0/1 shots on target Not the stand out player people are alluding to. Unless your levels are low. Edited January 16, 2023 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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