Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[Wandy]

1 minute ago, Pata said:

 

He posted his best per 90 numbers this season, only behind Wilson and Isak in the team.

 

That doesnt say much for his previous seasons then tbh.

 

I go off what my eyes see anyway, rather than stats, and the only thing of note he did last season was the Man City performance and the goal at Wolves. Everything else I just found immensely frustrating and a general disappointment.

[HaydnNUFC]

23 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

You'd think we weren letting peak David Ginola go, the way some have reacted. 

 

Clearly not given ASM averaged a goal or assist in fewer minutes for us than Ginola did for us. 

[Pata]

7 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

No, you should take it down immediately

 

You used to get in trouble for posting fixture lists and any compilation videos were a massive NO, still not entirely sure about videos but was encouraged by the goal compilation in Barnes thread.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Pata

[Skeletor]

2 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

You used to get in trouble for posting fixture lists and any compilation videos were a massive NO, still not entirely sure about videos but was encouraged by the goal compilation in Barnes thread.

 

 

 

 

The old HTT and Toontastic forums were shut down for posting fixtures. It used to be a serious thing where only one fan site was allowed to have the rights to post fixtures (always NUFC.com) but then the law changed. Same with videos but now they're YouTube's responsibility.

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

You used to get in trouble for posting fixture lists and any compilation videos were a massive NO, still not entirely sure about videos but was encouraged by the goal compilation in Barnes thread.

 

 

 

Got you

 

Compilation videos of player seems an odd one for N-O to want to take down, but it isn’t my rulebook I suppose

[Rich]

All fair game these days IMO, people can post streams for all I care. Fuck the police.

[Wandy]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Clearly not given ASM averaged a goal or assist in fewer minutes for us than Ginola did for us. 

 

I'd actually find that hard to believe, but whatever. David Ginola in his first few months at NUFC is still the most exciting player I have ever seen at the club. And after those months passed he merely went from magical to "just" fantastic.

[Pata]

1 minute ago, Skeletor said:

 

The old HTT and Toontastic forums were shut down for posting fixtures. It used to be a serious thing where only one fan site was allowed to have the rights to post fixtures (always NUFC.com) but then the law changed. Same with videos but now they're YouTube's responsibility.

 

Interesting, thanks. Should have probably known that's it's down to Youtube know tbh.

[Kid Icarus]

We've gone full circle. Just a couple of weeks ago we were talking about how Ginola is a great example of goals and assists not being the be-all-and-end-all of a player's worth.

[HaydnNUFC]

Just now, Wandy said:

 

I'd actually find that hard to believe, but whatever. David Ginola in his first few months at NUFC is still the most exciting player I have ever seen at the club. And after those months passed he merely went from magical to "just" fantastic.

 

Yep. Ginola for us in his two seasons had 19 goals and assists in 5195 minutes. Works out at 1 goal involvement every 273 minutes.

 

ASM has 30 goals and assists over 8067 minutes, works out 1 goal involvement per 268 minutes.

 

Marginal but still fewer.

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

That doesnt say much for his previous seasons then tbh.

 

I go off what my eyes see anyway, rather than stats, and the only thing of note he did last season was the Man City performance and the goal at Wolves. Everything else I just found immensely frustrating and a general disappointment.

Players like ASM are very useful for lower half table sides, as a team set up to counter loves having an ASM.  Watching him run at a panicking, back-pedalling defence was always great fun. He can ‘dance’, and those players are always fun to watch.  

 

But he isn’t a top level player, and now we are a very good side and as teams sit off us, his usefulness diminishes.  And then frustration kicks in, as he sets off on runs from the middle of the pitch into a bank of eight defenders.  The player he reminds me most of when he does that is Ketsbaia - ASM is a more talented dribbler, but the outcome was usually the same. 

 

I do think that sometimes the idea of ASM outweighs the actuality.  

[Wandy]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Players like ASM are very useful for lower half table sides, as a team set up to counter loves having an ASM.  Watching him run at a panicking, back-pedalling defence was always great fun. He can ‘dance’, and those players are always fun to watch.  

 

But he isn’t a top level player, and now we are a very good side and as teams sit off us, his usefulness diminishes.  And then frustration kicks in, as he sets off on runs from the middle of the pitch into a bank of eight defenders.  The player he reminds me most of when he does that is Ketsbaia - ASM is a more talented dribbler, but the outcome was usually the same. 

 

I do think that sometimes the idea of ASM outweighs the actuality.  

 

Your last sentence nails it. People imagine him becoming the player that he never will be.

[Vinny Green Balls]

I’ll miss him, but we were generally pretty damn entertaining the times he didn’t play last season. 

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Yep. Ginola for us in his two seasons had 19 goals and assists in 5195 minutes. Works out at 1 goal involvement every 273 minutes.

 

ASM has 30 goals and assists over 8067 minutes, works out 1 goal involvement per 268 minutes.

 

Marginal but still fewer.

Context is important.  Ginola for that first six months was absolutely unplayable - and that’s why Barcelona tried to sign him from us.  He was kicked off the park at Highbury in the League Cup and never returned to form in 95/96.

 

The year after, he looked like he was back - until Dalglish arrived.  And that was that.

 

Ginola, for most, represented a standard we just weren’t used to seeing.  Three years before he signed we were nearly relegated to the third division - and had ‘enjoyed’ years of footballing mediocrity which make the Ashley years look halcyon.  If Ginola was 25 again and signed today his impact wouldn’t be anything like the same as it was in ‘95. 

[Wandy]

6 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Yep. Ginola for us in his two seasons had 19 goals and assists in 5195 minutes. Works out at 1 goal involvement every 273 minutes.

 

ASM has 30 goals and assists over 8067 minutes, works out 1 goal involvement per 268 minutes.

 

Marginal but still fewer.

 

Interesting. But for me Ginola was twice as good as ASM, as a player to actually watch anyway.

[HaydnNUFC]

9 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Context is important.  Ginola for that first six months was absolutely unplayable - and that’s why Barcelona tried to sign him from us.  He was kicked off the park at Highbury in the League Cup and never returned to form in 95/96.

 

The year after, he looked like he was back - until Dalglish arrived.  And that was that.

 

Ginola, for most, represented a standard we just weren’t used to seeing.  Three years before he signed we were nearly relegated to the third division - and had ‘enjoyed’ years of footballing mediocrity which make the Ashley years look halcyon.  If Ginola was 25 again and signed today his impact wouldn’t be anything like the same as it was in ‘95. 

 

I admit I'm being a minute bit facetious. People, not solely on here but across socials, have been going on about ASM being exciting and about how they will miss him but have been shot down by others saying Barnes is better because his numbers are better and that ASM was/is nowhere near the likes of Ginola, Robert, Ben Arfa etc. 

 

Which is counterintuitive as his goals and assists per 90, which are what some are using to rate Barnes as clear of ASM, are better than Ginola's whom people say ASM is nowhere near. So which is it? 

 

I don't care too much tbh. I'm sad to see ASM go and don't think he would be going if FFP didn't restrict us. But he is, we're onwards to better things. And I'll be chuffed with the window if we get a RW on top of Livramento, Barnes and Tonali.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by HaydnNUFC

[TheBrownBottle]

5 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

Interesting. But for me Ginola was twice as good as ASM, as a player to actually watch anyway.

I remember reading Johan Cruyff saying that he could identify a great technical player through the sound his boot made when striking the ball.  Ginola was one of those players - he stroked the ball even when shooting.  He could beat a man, but never seemed in a hurry to do so.

[clintdempsey]

It is possible to love ASM as a throwback ‘artist’, a memory of how football was played when we all were little. I didn’t give a fuck about the kids kicking the ball the hardest or making all the right decisions when I was playing as a kid. I loved being on the same team as the skillful little fuckers though. There’s something to be said for dribbling 8 people before jinking the ball over the line (1 out of 10 tries).
 

It’s the romantic part of the sport that absolutely anything is possible and that can create magical moments even in dark times. ASM represented that for me during the Bruce years - he gave me something to cling on to however small or little. I will miss him hugely and would have loved for him to stay. I do think that Barnes will be good for us as well and will contribute solid numbers. But he probably won’t ignite that feeling that ASM did when picking up the ball and going full pelt towards the opposition.

 

In a way ASM is the football equivalent of the lover of years gone - it wasn’t reliable, it wasn’t always great but when she was on it hot damn you were in for a treat. Barnes would be more of of the kind of girl you settled down with - steady, missionary sex twice a week and a satisfying but somewhat predictable and ultimately plain experience. Give me the best of both worlds however… 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by clintdempsey

[hakka]

4 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I admit I'm being a minute bit facetious. People, not solely on here but across socials, have been going on about ASM being exciting and about how they will miss him but have been shot down by others saying Barnes is better because his numbers are better and that ASM was/is nowhere near the likes of Ginola, Robert, Ben Arfa etc. 

 

Which is counterintuitive as his goals and assists per 90, which are what some are using to rate Barnes as clear of ASM, are better than Ginola's whom people say ASM is nowhere near. So which is it? 

 

I don't care too much tbh. I'm sad to see ASM go and don't think he would be going if FFP didn't restrict us. But he is, we're onwards to better things. And I'll be chuffed with the window if we get a RW on top of Livramento, Barnes and Tonali.

 

 

 

 

Good take.

[hakka]

3 minutes ago, clintdempsey said:

It is possible to love ASM as a throwback ‘artist’, a memory of how football was played when we all were little. I didn’t give a fuck about the kids kicking the ball the hardest or making all the right decisions when I was playing as a kid. I loved being on the same team as the skillful little fuckers though. There’s something to be said for dribbling 8 people before jinking the ball over the line (1 out of 10 tries).
 

It’s the romantic part of the sport that absolutely anything is possible and that can create magical moments even in dark times. ASM represented that for me during the Bruce years - he gave me something to cling on to however small or little. I will miss him hugely and would have loved for him to stay. I do think that Barnes will be good for us as well and will contribute solid numbers. But he probably won’t ignite that feeling that ASM did when picking up the ball and going full pelt towards the opposition.

 

In a way ASM is the football equivalent of the lover of years gone - it wasn’t reliable, it wasn’t always great but when she was on it hot damn you were in for a treat. Barnes would be more of of the kind of girl you settled down with - steady, missionary sex twice a week and a satisfying but somewhat predictable and ultimately plain experience. Give me the best of both worlds however… 

 

 

 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I admit I'm being a minute bit facetious. People, not solely on here but across socials, have been going on about ASM being exciting and about how they will miss him but have been shot down by others saying Barnes is better because his numbers are better and that ASM was/is nowhere near the likes of Ginola, Robert, Ben Arfa etc. 

 

Which is counterintuitive as his goals and assists per 90, which are what some are using to rate Barnes as clear of ASM, are better than Ginola's whom people say ASM is nowhere near. So which is it? 

 

I don't care too much tbh. I'm sad to see ASM go and don't think he would be going if FFP didn't restrict us. But he is, we're onwards to better things. And I'll be chuffed with the window if we get RW in top of Livramento, Barnes and Tonali.

 

 

 

I’m afraid I was always a fully fledged member of the Laurent Robert fan club - I like my tricky wingers to also have output  - many of the criticisms applied to ASM also apply to Ginola (though I also think Ginola was a better technical footballer than ASM).

 

I think Barnes makes far more sense in an Eddie Howe team - having Bruno, Willock, Big Joe and Tonali means he’s going to have ample midfielders to feed him those little one-twos he thrives off.

 

I suspect ASM likely would still be off irrespective of FFP - I just don’t think the management rate him, or perhaps it’s more fair to say he doesn’t fit with what they’re looking to do.

 

I think many of the negative reactions (certainly including mine) come from the desire to want to see Howe put together the team in his own image. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

18 minutes ago, clintdempsey said:

In a way ASM is the football equivalent of the lover of years gone - it wasn’t reliable, it wasn’t always great but when she was on it hot damn you were in for a treat. Barnes would be more of of the kind of girl you settled down with - steady, missionary sex twice a week and a satisfying but somewhat predictable and ultimately plain experience. Give me the best of both worlds however… 

 

 

 

sounds like that Grindr date Fantail Breeze had.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Vinny Green Balls

[HaydnNUFC]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’m afraid I was always a fully fledged member of the Laurent Robert fan club - I like my tricky wingers to also have output  - many of the criticisms applied to ASM also apply to Ginola (though I also think Ginola was a better technical footballer than ASM).

 

I think Barnes makes far more sense in an Eddie Howe team - having Bruno, Willock, Big Joe and Tonali means he’s going to have ample midfielders to feed him those little one-twos he thrives off.

 

I suspect ASM likely would still be off irrespective of FFP - I just don’t think the management rate him, or perhaps it’s more fair to say he doesn’t fit with what they’re looking to do.

 

I think many of the negative reactions (certainly including mine) come from the desire to want to see Howe put together the team in his own image. 

 

Given what Howe's said since his appointment regarding ASM, his place in the team in 2021-22 when he started 31 matches, this season when we slightly tweaked how we played (mid March when ASM, Isak, Murphy displaced the usual front 3 of Almiron, Wilson and Joelinton) and his affection for the club, area and fans I don't think he would be off tbh. But out of the players in the squad we have, he's probably the only one that would garner a sizeable fee that could help with FFP and that we wouldn't miss too much, as seen last season with his injuries. As there is no chance we could entertain selling any of Bruno, Isak or Botman right now.

 

But I do feel as someone who really likes ASM that there's been a mixture of revisionism about him and a refusal to give him credit on top of a perpetuation of things such as him not tracking back, working hard enough etc from some. He is what he is, he'll frustrate. If he didn't frustrate more than not he likely wouldn't have signed for us in summer 2019. But he's hella entertaining and capable of things few if any in the squad have been in his time here. I'll miss him a lot; he's the type of player you love watching and are more than happy to pay your money to go and see just like you thought with Ginola. G+A don't matter with that regard as has been pointed out. 

 

But onwards we go, we'll get better players who will hopefully he capable of what ASM could do when he's on it and then some.

[greydos]

34 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Players like ASM are very useful for lower half table sides, as a team set up to counter loves having an ASM.  Watching him run at a panicking, back-pedalling defence was always great fun. He can ‘dance’, and those players are always fun to watch.  

 

But he isn’t a top level player, and now we are a very good side and as teams sit off us, his usefulness diminishes.  And then frustration kicks in, as he sets off on runs from the middle of the pitch into a bank of eight defenders.  The player he reminds me most of when he does that is Ketsbaia - ASM is a more talented dribbler, but the outcome was usually the same. 

 

I do think that sometimes the idea of ASM outweighs the actuality.  

If we go deep in the Champs Leeg or Europa there’ll be games where we can’t high press up the pitch or sustain possession and will need Maxi. If Real were forced to play that way verse a few teams, we will be also

[greydos]

I really want Howe to have weapons. Why not give the master tactician both the best dribbler in the league and the best ‘give n go’ finisher. That’s really what’s sad and FFP is bunk!