NUFC : Next Manager (Bruce is here forever)

[Dokko]

I think the £~22m we spent on Gayle and Ritchie is literally some of the best best money we've ever spent. Can't underestimate how vital it was to get promoted and then stay up, and those two had an enormous part in that.

 

He made four outright bad signings imo. Sels, Lazaar, Murphy and Muto.

 

Sels is doing alright in France isn't he? Also we got our money back (5.5) with loan (1.8) and transfer (3.5) fee. Don't think we needed a GK at the time mind. Lazaar was only 2.3m, i reckon we'd have seen half that back with loan fees as well.

 

Muto & Murphy though, at the time where we really needed players to challenge were a huge waste of resources and hindered us.

 

I'd add Joselu to the s*** list. Atsu was close to being mentioned but tbh in his loan spell here he was good and i would have signed him in case he stepped up.

 

To be fair to Rafa, I think his hands were tied by that point so I dont actually blame him at all for some of the s*** we bought when we got up. If anything it was a testament to his ability as a coach/manager to achieve what he did with some of that dross.

 

100%. If he can do that with players of that quality, what will he be able to do with top end players here? He certainly won't have to continuously drill the basics in to them so will be able to develop them quicker on other things.

 

I also think the players deserve credit for steeping up, most beyond their abilities. You've just got to look at Sunderland for the last 3 seasons to see players constantly under achieving, not performing and not giving their all to see how it can pan out. Where we look at the handful that haven't worked out, its the opposite for them and its the handful that have, who have all left already because everyone and everything else around them was shit. We'd end up there with Bruce imo. 2 more seasons max and any good work will have been undone and we'd be in freefall.

[Dokko]

I think the £~22m we spent on Gayle and Ritchie is literally some of the best best money we've ever spent. Can't underestimate how vital it was to get promoted and then stay up, and those two had an enormous part in that.

 

He made four outright bad signings imo. Sels, Lazaar, Murphy and Muto.

 

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek.

 

They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer?

 

Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price.

 

Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different.

 

Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well...

 

Agreed, but you're aiming that at the wrong man in this situation.

[Thumbheed]

We aren't struggling to shift them though are we?

 

The club just gave Ritchie a 3 tweet year extension, there were plenty of clubs interested in Hayden and Diame's gone

 

Who's happy that we have Ritchie for another 3 years? That's got Bruce written all over it, Diame literally left on a free, he could have been signed for a nominal fee by anyone who really wanted him, and Hayden has literally been begging to leave and still can't orchestrate a move.

 

That's not Rafa's fault though is it? Rafa bought Diame and Ritchie to get us out of the Championship and solidify our place in the Prem, which they did. Rafa would have moved Ritchie on last summer or this summer

 

Loads of clubs would have bought Hayden but we didn't sell him and his personal problems seem to have eased

Well that's kind of my point, he bought for the Championship when he had the option to buy players who would have got us up AND been assets if/when we got up. You can read the Ritchie and Gayle threads to see how they're viewed by the fan base. Largely seen as liabilities now.

 

I have not heard of a single bid for Hayden, I could be wrong like.

[joeyt]

He didn't have the option to buy Townsend instead of Ritchie though did he?

[Thumbheed]

I think the £~22m we spent on Gayle and Ritchie is literally some of the best best money we've ever spent. Can't underestimate how vital it was to get promoted and then stay up, and those two had an enormous part in that.

 

He made four outright bad signings imo. Sels, Lazaar, Murphy and Muto.

 

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek.

 

They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer?

 

Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price.

 

Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different.

 

Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well...

 

Agreed, but you're aiming that at the wrong man in this situation.

Perhaps I am, yeh. My reading of it at the time was Rafa did have free reign at the time and so was fully accountable for what we signed in that particular window. I felt that way because he seemed pretty content (no murmrings of unrest in the media) and the transfer policy was basically scrapped for him.

[joeyt]

I think the £~22m we spent on Gayle and Ritchie is literally some of the best best money we've ever spent. Can't underestimate how vital it was to get promoted and then stay up, and those two had an enormous part in that.

 

He made four outright bad signings imo. Sels, Lazaar, Murphy and Muto.

 

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek.

 

They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer?

 

Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price.

 

Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different.

 

Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well...

 

What does Hodgson have to do with it?

[Thumbheed]

I think the £~22m we spent on Gayle and Ritchie is literally some of the best best money we've ever spent. Can't underestimate how vital it was to get promoted and then stay up, and those two had an enormous part in that.

 

He made four outright bad signings imo. Sels, Lazaar, Murphy and Muto.

 

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek.

 

They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer?

 

Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price.

 

Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different.

 

Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well...

 

What does Hodgson have to do with it?

 

Ah little mistake, but what difference does it make to my point?

[joeyt]

I think you think there are loads of players we had available to buy who would have been brilliant in the Championship and carry that form onto the Prem

 

Rafa bought players to get us out of the Championship and solidify our place in the Prem which they did

[Dokko]

I think the £~22m we spent on Gayle and Ritchie is literally some of the best best money we've ever spent. Can't underestimate how vital it was to get promoted and then stay up, and those two had an enormous part in that.

 

He made four outright bad signings imo. Sels, Lazaar, Murphy and Muto.

 

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek.

 

They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer?

 

Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price.

 

Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different.

 

Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well...

 

Agreed, but you're aiming that at the wrong man in this situation.

Perhaps I am, yeh. My reading of it at the time was Rafa did have free reign at the time and so was fully accountable for what we signed in that particular window. I felt that way because he seemed pretty content (no murmrings of unrest in the media) and the transfer policy was basically scrapped for him.

 

He could have said no to a signing, like he did with Joelinton but the club had said no to him about hist 1st few choices, so he's now taking chances on players further down the list. Next in line may have worked out better, who knows. but that's as far as control went. Hindsight: I'd rather we signed no one than Murphy and Muto, but it could have worked out well at the time they came in, that's the gamble.

[Thumbheed]

I think you think there are loads of players we had available to buy who would have been brilliant in the Championship and carry that form onto the Prem

 

Rafa bought players to get us out of the Championship and solidify our place in the Prem which they did

 

I think there was enough, yes, and that's literally my only point.

[joeyt]

I think you think there are loads of players we had available to buy who would have been brilliant in the Championship and carry that form onto the Prem

 

Rafa bought players to get us out of the Championship and solidify our place in the Prem which they did

 

I think there was enough, yes, and that's literally my only point.

 

Such as who?

 

We couldn't have signed Townsend instead of Ritchie

[Thumbheed]

I think the £~22m we spent on Gayle and Ritchie is literally some of the best best money we've ever spent. Can't underestimate how vital it was to get promoted and then stay up, and those two had an enormous part in that.

 

He made four outright bad signings imo. Sels, Lazaar, Murphy and Muto.

 

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek.

 

They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer?

 

 

 

Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price.

 

Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different.

 

Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well...

 

Agreed, but you're aiming that at the wrong man in this situation.

Perhaps I am, yeh. My reading of it at the time was Rafa did have free reign at the time and so was fully accountable for what we signed in that particular window. I felt that way because he seemed pretty content (no murmrings of unrest in the media) and the transfer policy was basically scrapped for him.

 

He could have said no to a signing, like he did with Joelinton but the club had said no to him about hist 1st few choices, so he's now taking chances on players further down the list. Next in line may have worked out better, who knows. but that's as far as control went. Hindsight: I'd rather we signed no one than Murphy and Muto, but it could have worked out well at the time they came in, that's the gamble.

100% agree with that, I have absolutely no idea if there were any constraints imposed upon him for that summer 2016 window, I just thought there was enough evidence to suggest all those signings were his first choice because I'm sure we'd have heard about it if he felt seriosuly restricted at that time.

[Dokko]

BTW we sold Townsend (relegation release clause) the same month we bought Ritchie. Townsend was available on loan in the jan window after a poor start under fat head. It didn't go through and by the time we came back up in the following summer he was playing well under Roy (i think) so wasn't available.

[Dokko]

I think the £~22m we spent on Gayle and Ritchie is literally some of the best best money we've ever spent. Can't underestimate how vital it was to get promoted and then stay up, and those two had an enormous part in that.

 

He made four outright bad signings imo. Sels, Lazaar, Murphy and Muto.

 

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek.

 

They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer?

 

 

 

Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price.

 

Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different.

 

Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well...

 

Agreed, but you're aiming that at the wrong man in this situation.

Perhaps I am, yeh. My reading of it at the time was Rafa did have free reign at the time and so was fully accountable for what we signed in that particular window. I felt that way because he seemed pretty content (no murmrings of unrest in the media) and the transfer policy was basically scrapped for him.

 

He could have said no to a signing, like he did with Joelinton but the club had said no to him about hist 1st few choices, so he's now taking chances on players further down the list. Next in line may have worked out better, who knows. but that's as far as control went. Hindsight: I'd rather we signed no one than Murphy and Muto, but it could have worked out well at the time they came in, that's the gamble.

100% agree with that, I have absolutely no idea if there were any constraints imposed upon him for that summer 2016 window, I just thought there was enough evidence to suggest all those signings were his first choice because I'm sure we'd have heard about it if he felt seriosuly restricted at that time.

 

He probably acquired his top targets earlier on in his time here because he was looking at lower level players to get us out of the Championship. All his buys then cam off imo, I remember thinking WTF you doing buying Murphy? Then made to eat humble pie as he did his bit, even got a good fee back for him. After that i stopped questioning him on transfers.  Murphy and Muto were later in the reign. By then the club were in a power struggle with him and less willing to meet any of his demands. They would push through younger players on his list as it met their resale objectives but weren't committing to his plan any more. I think Almiron was the one player all parties agreed on, but price meant it we wasted a long time trying to secure him. Signing Joelinton was a fuck you from Ashley to Rafa in hope of him producing the goods. Looks like Rafa was right. He's our Grigg.

[Thumbheed]

I think you think there are loads of players we had available to buy who would have been brilliant in the Championship and carry that form onto the Prem

 

Rafa bought players to get us out of the Championship and solidify our place in the Prem which they did

 

I think there was enough, yes, and that's literally my only point.

 

Such as who?

 

We couldn't have signed Townsend instead of Ritchie

 

I honestly dont know the answer to that because I dont have contacts in football who would tell me who was available at that time.

 

I think youre taking this Ritchie vs Towsend comparative too literally.

 

There's 10 top clubs in the Premier league, they have 25 man squad and 17 matchday players(?). That leaves a pool of 80 players who are on the books of a top 10 team who cant get into the playing squad. Chose 3-4 of them who are probably unlucky not to play, and that's just from the premier league only.

[joeyt]

I think you're incredibly oversimplifying things there like

[Thumbheed]

I think you're incredibly oversimplifying things there like

 

 

Loftus Cheek is literally one example of that ffs :lol:

 

Edit: sneaky edit, Joeyt

[Thumbheed]

I think you're incredibly oversimplifying things there like

 

Well, tell me why then? Give me a logical reason why it makes zero sense to you as it clearly does.

[sh74]

Think Rafa will definitely be here at the start of next season.

[Thumbheed]

I fucking hope so.

[joeyt]

Loftus Cheek would have cost an absolute fortune wouldn't he? 19 years old, at Chelsea? I can't even remember us being linked with him permanently in the Championship. Why would he join us permanently?

 

We did what you suggested with Atsu, Yedlin, Gayle, Hayden and Ritchie. We bought Premier League players who were surplus at their teams.

[Thumbheed]

Loftus Cheek would have cost an absolute fortune wouldn't he? 20 years old, at Chelsea? I can't even remember us being linked with him in the Championship. Why would he join us permanently?

 

We did what you suggested with Atsu, Yedlin, Gayle and Ritchie. We bought Premier League players who were surplus at their teams. And you've said that was the wrong strategy

 

I think Atsu and Yedlin are the only real examples of that strategy and I know I named Yedlin in my list of poor buys but I'd probably retract that irrespective of having the hindsight he didnt turn out to be a great player.

 

The others 2 were players from average premier league teams and we've not even looked at what we could have looked at in other leagues.

 

And I still think the point stands for the other players signed, they all turned out to be good championship players and poor/average prem players and you probably didnt need hindsight for you to come to that conclusion in most cases.

 

 

[SUPERTOON]

Wonder if Simeone will be available assuming this was to go through

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I’d hire Rafa to run my business never mind my team, his expertise in every area would negate the need to hire such people in such areas. He’s a one stop shop manager, then there is the added adoration of the fans, his connection with the city and his actually CV ain’t bad either. No other candidate, if it costs 20m, it’s 20m well spent and the best money the new owners will ever spend. Come home Rafael!

[STM]

I’d hire Rafa to run my business never mind my team, his expertise in every area would negate the need to hire such people in such areas. He’s a one stop shop manager, then there is the added adoration of the fans, his connection with the city and his actually CV ain’t bad either. No other candidate, if it costs 20m, it’s 20m well spent and the best money the new owners will ever spend. Come home Rafael!

 

From a business point of view it would be a no brainer, especially in the short term (4/5 seasons).