Eddie Howe - Nominated for Manager of the Season

[Coffee_Johnny]

Find all this talk of Howe not being up to it disappointing and bizarre. He is our second best performing PL manager. This takes into account disappointments (and glorious bits) of this season. Don’t know why I am bothered, as there were also people moaning about Keegan and Robson’s ineptitudes. Look what we have all endured since. Guess I just wish people could cope with disappointment better and, to steal a quote, still overestimate the power of logic and (wrongly) assume intelligent men are rational.

[The College Dropout]

Things were much worse here in Bobby last 6-8 months. He had few supporters on here.

 

95% of the forum are in support of Howe.

[sushimonster85]

There's always been a kneejerk, whiny section of the fanbase that want the manager sacked as soon at the first sign of trouble. Was going to say it feels like they've gotten worse, but I remember Bobby was getting a much worse time from them towards the end of his reign than Howe is currently getting. 

[sushimonster85]

All this has gotten me thinking of a (semi) interesting tangent. Which (PL era) manager under-performed the most in relation to what they had in terms of squad and funds? Guess the easy/obvious answer in Gullit. Though I think McClaren gives him a pretty good run. 

 

I actually think in terms of PL finishes Bruce had us almost exactly where we deserved to be, not that he had much to do with it at all. 

[Yorkie]

1 minute ago, sushimonster85 said:

All this has gotten me thinking of a (semi) interesting tangent. Which (PL era) manager under-performed the most in relation to what they had in terms of squad and funds? Guess the easy/obvious answer in Gullit. Though I think McClaren gives him a pretty good run. 

 

I actually think in terms of PL finishes Bruce had us almost exactly where we deserved to be, not that he had much to do with it at all. 

 

That's very easily Pardew imo. We arguably punched above our weight in 2011/12 but in the two seasons which followed we massively underachieved given the quality in the squad, ultimately setting the tone for the remainder of the Ashley era. 

 

That's why everyone was aching for him to get jettisoned: it was clear as day that the promising run in 2012 was never going to be replicated or built on. There was lots to hate about him but the fundamental issue was that - even in spite of the lack of investment - we were wasting a really good squad on a rubbish manager.

 

Speaking for myself, it took a little bit of time to realise that the lack of progress was, of course, all by design. Being oh so burdened with the Europa League in 2012/13 cemented in Ashley's mind that it wasn't worth competing. That was Pardew's fault and that's why people shouldn't forget the existentially disastrous implications of his tenure. 

[Keegans Export]

10 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said:

All this has gotten me thinking of a (semi) interesting tangent. Which (PL era) manager under-performed the most in relation to what they had in terms of squad and funds? Guess the easy/obvious answer in Gullit. Though I think McClaren gives him a pretty good run. 

 

I actually think in terms of PL finishes Bruce had us almost exactly where we deserved to be, not that he had much to do with it at all. 

McClaren would be my call. Also agree regarding Bruce although I think he would have relegated us that last season if the takeover hadn't happened.

[Yorkie]

I don't think it's McClaren at all. By that point we had next to nothing in the way of decent strikers; Remy and Ba were long gone, Cisse had all but lost the plot, Siem de Jong never assimilating, Mitro areet but very rough around the edges, Perez decent but just a young lad, Rivieire laughable. Then you had the likes of Sissoko who wasn't interested, Tiote well past his best, Anita and Colback who were basically rubbish, Thauvin who couldn't give a monkeys. Rob Elliot first choice goalie.

 

If it wasn't for Wijnaldum and Perez we probably wouldn't have got a single point.

[Kid Icarus]

25 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said:

All this has gotten me thinking of a (semi) interesting tangent. Which (PL era) manager under-performed the most in relation to what they had in terms of squad and funds? Guess the easy/obvious answer in Gullit. Though I think McClaren gives him a pretty good run. 

 

I actually think in terms of PL finishes Bruce had us almost exactly where we deserved to be, not that he had much to do with it at all. 

 

If this is limited to Newcastle then in my time supporting the club, aside from a few little winning runs it's 100% Pardew from August 2012 until he left at the end of 2014. That squad had far more quality and balance than anything anyone else in the Ashley-era had. 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by Kid Icarus

[The College Dropout]

35 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

That's very easily Pardew imo. We arguably punched above our weight in 2011/12 but in the two seasons which followed we massively underachieved given the quality in the squad, ultimately setting the tone for the remainder of the Ashley era. 

 

That's why everyone was aching for him to get jettisoned: it was clear as day that the promising run in 2012 was never going to be replicated or built on. There was lots to hate about him but the fundamental issue was that - even in spite of the lack of investment - we were wasting a really good squad on a rubbish manager.

 

Speaking for myself, it took a little bit of time to realise that the lack of progress was, of course, all by design. Being oh so burdened with the Europa League in 2012/13 cemented in Ashley's mind that it wasn't worth competing. That was Pardew's fault and that's why people shouldn't forget the existentially disastrous implications of his tenure. 

Totally disagree with this assessment. Pardew was deeply unpopular from day one because he got the job through being pals with a Ashley peon and he was willing to be a Ashley mouthpiece. He also took over a well-liked manager who didn't deserve the sack and someone who wasn't an Ashley stooge.

 

So what you get is an under-appreciation of his positive spells hence "arguably punched above our weight" to finish 5th. And over-emphasis on the terrible spells. People used to act like Vurnon Anita was being treated harshly when reality was - he was shit. We signed a lot of foreign players not suited to the league or not very good like Davide Santon and thought we should challenge for Europe.

 

The squad that McClaren relegated was the strongest squad we had for some time. Shelvey, Ayoze, Cisse, Mitrovic, Townsend, Sissoko, Gini etc. 18 months prior Pardew had the same squad minus Shelvey, Mitro, Townsend and Gini and left us midtable. McClaren was a bad manager.

 

Ultimately it was all Fat Mike's fault. He never wanted European football unless it was CL. We didn't know his full MO at the time so many felt Pardew was holding the club back. But Pardew was doing what he was meant to do for his bosses. Finish 13th every season. 

 

Edit: Massive crime by Bruce & Rafa to not play a 4-3-3 with Sissoko - Shelvey - Gini.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by The College Dropout

[Sibierski]

Another reason McClaren was bad for me too was because he came in with a principle of maybe we’ll actually see some coaching of the side at last, and that just didn’t happen with players getting worse and tactics a mess. Basically in the end ditched any attempt of a passing game and went counter attacking. 
 

Just an absolute cluster fuck. 

[Andy]

30 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Totally disagree with this assessment. Pardew was deeply unpopular from day one because he got the job through being pals with a Ashley peon and he was willing to be a Ashley mouthpiece. He also took over a well-liked manager who didn't deserve the sack and someone who wasn't an Ashley stooge.

 

So what you get is an under-appreciation of his positive spells hence "arguably punched above our weight" to finish 5th. 

 

As someone who was very active on here at the time, I don't think that is completely true tbh.  This forum was notoriously critical of Pardew in the end, but he was quite well liked during the 5th placed season in particular, the posts backing this up probably still exist on here. 

 

Edit: I'm sure some people won't think me for this, but as an example:

 

https://newcastle-online.org/topic/25874-alan-pardew/page/921/

 

He lost the fans favour with his performance and attitude after that season, justifiably so. 

[Yorkie]

33 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Totally disagree with this assessment. Pardew was deeply unpopular from day one because he got the job through being pals with a Ashley peon and he was willing to be a Ashley mouthpiece. He also took over a well-liked manager who didn't deserve the sack and someone who wasn't an Ashley stooge.

 

So what you get is an under-appreciation of his positive spells hence "arguably punched above our weight" to finish 5th. And over-emphasis on the terrible spells. People used to act like Vurnon Anita was being treated harshly when reality was - he was shit. We signed a lot of foreign players not suited to the league or not very good like Davide Santon and thought we should challenge for Europe.

 

The squad that McClaren relegated was the strongest squad we had for some time. Shelvey, Ayoze, Cisse, Mitrovic, Townsend, Sissoko, Gini etc. 18 months prior Pardew had the same squad minus Shelvey, Mitro, Townsend and Gini and left us midtable. McClaren was a bad manager.

 

Ultimately it was all Fat Mike's fault. He never wanted European football unless it was CL. We didn't know his full MO at the time so many felt Pardew was holding the club back. But Pardew was doing what he was meant to do for his bosses. Finish 13th every season. 

 

Edit: Massive crime by Bruce & Rafa to not play a 4-3-3 with Sissoko - Shelvey - Gini.

 

I assume you quoted the wrong post but there's absolutely no way the McClaren squad was better than the Pardew squad of 2013/14 imo. You're overrating the players you've listed, without mentioning the disinterested shite we had elsewhere in the squad in 2015/16. 

[Kid Icarus]

37 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Totally disagree with this assessment. Pardew was deeply unpopular from day one because he got the job through being pals with a Ashley peon and he was willing to be a Ashley mouthpiece. He also took over a well-liked manager who didn't deserve the sack and someone who wasn't an Ashley stooge.

 

So what you get is an under-appreciation of his positive spells hence "arguably punched above our weight" to finish 5th. And over-emphasis on the terrible spells. People used to act like Vurnon Anita was being treated harshly when reality was - he was shit. We signed a lot of foreign players not suited to the league or not very good like Davide Santon and thought we should challenge for Europe.

 

He wasn't deeply unpopular until around January 2013 at the absolute earliest. What you've posted here is hyperbole almost to the point of revisionism. Pardew was initially disliked for being seen as an Ashley man and replacing Hughton, but it didn't last long and by the time 11-12 was well under way, disliking Pardew and his football was very much a minority view on here. By the end of the season it was almost non-existent.

 

The 5th season wrote all wrongs for him and it wasn't until we then turned to absolute shit that his influence on that season was re-evaluated with the benefit of hindsight - that hindsight of course being hugely informed by Pardew himself not once playing the 433 that reaped us rewards in 11-12, having us play a totally different style, with players out of position and our best players not getting a look in. 

 

You learn and experience all of that and all that came after it and the perception of 11-12 inevitably changes, and rightly so. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by Kid Icarus

[Yorkie]

@Kid Icarus  The big turning point with Pardew was that defeat at home to Reading imo. Was clear then that he needed to go. 

[TBG]

Was meant to go to Whitehouse Farm for a second date, but couldn't be arsed with that so ended up taking her to that Reading game.

 

What a miserable experience that was. The game wasn't much better either.

[timeEd32]

27 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

As someone who was very active on here at the time, I don't think that is completely true tbh.  This forum was notoriously critical of Pardew in the end, but he was quite well liked during the 5th placed season in particular, the posts backing this up probably still exist on here. 

 

Edit: I'm sure some people won't think me for this, but as an example:

 

https://newcastle-online.org/topic/25874-alan-pardew/page/921/

 

He lost the fans favour with his performance and attitude after that season, justifiably so. 

 

"If we beat Wigan..."

[SiLvOR]

14 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

@Kid Icarus  The big turning point with Pardew was that defeat at home to Reading imo. Was clear then that he needed to go. 

Easily my most depressing ever visit to Newcastle

[The College Dropout]

23 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

As someone who was very active on here at the time, I don't think that is completely true tbh.  This forum was notoriously critical of Pardew in the end, but he was quite well liked during the 5th placed season in particular, the posts backing this up probably still exist on here. 

 

Edit: I'm sure some people won't think me for this, but as an example:

 

https://newcastle-online.org/topic/25874-alan-pardew/page/921/

 

He lost the fans favour with his performance and attitude after that season, justifiably so. 

We had just finished 5th tbf.

 

He was initially disliked. Did ok. Did well. But as soon as he did poorly - the forum turned. A lot of it was down to him being unpopular in the first place. And a misdirected view that we should've been a top 7 team based on the squad filled with Anita, Gouffran, Jonas, Taylor's etc.

13 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I assume you quoted the wrong post but there's absolutely no way the McClaren squad was better than the Pardew squad of 2013/14 imo. You're overrating the players you've listed, without mentioning the disinterested shite we had elsewhere in the squad in 2015/16. 

It was 100% better than the squad Pardew left. The squad Pardew left was Riviere and co. was it not? Ashley did that thing where he brings in a new stooge and invests in a good few players in his first summer. Between Pardew leaving and Steve Mc joining we didn't lose any "purples" and signed some talented players that went on to have decent careers.

 

Motivating players is a managers' job and I don't think they were disinterested. Just had a crap manager. Sissoko got lots of stick but to me he always seemed to try his best. He just wasn't a creative or clinical player. That Spurs doc showed he was a good professional. 

16 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

He wasn't deeply unpopular until around January 2013 at the absolute earliest. What you've posted here is hyperbole almost to the point of revisionism. Pardew was initially disliked for being seen as an Ashley man and replacing Hughton, but it didn't last long and by the time 11-12 was well under way, disliking Pardew and his football was very much a minority view on here. By the end of the season it was almost non-existent.

 

The 5th season wrote all wrongs for him and it wasn't until we then turned to absolute shit that his influence on that season was re-evaluated with the benefit of hindsight - that hindsight of course being hugely informed by Pardew himself not once playing the 433 that reaped us rewards in 11-12, having us play a totally different style, with players out of position and our best players not getting a look in. 

 

You learn and experience all of that and all that came after it and the perception of 11-12 inevitably changes, and rightly so. 

 

 

 

 

 

I might have my years mixed up. But is Jan 2013 not 4 months into his first genuinely bad spell at the club?

 

I remember a strong narrative that the season we finished 5th - we were lucky and the players carried Pardew. Not everyone of course but it was there.

 

 

We didn't like Pardew. As soon as he stunk people wanted him out. That's not unfair to say. It's human nature.

[Dr Venkman]

[Yorkie]

32 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

52 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I assume you quoted the wrong post but there's absolutely no way the McClaren squad was better than the Pardew squad of 2013/14 imo. You're overrating the players you've listed, without mentioning the disinterested shite we had elsewhere in the squad in 2015/16. 

Expand  

It was 100% better than the squad Pardew left. The squad Pardew left was Riviere and co. was it not?

 

The 2014/15 (Pardew) squad was pants. But the one only a year prior was very good. It had Remy, Cabaye, Debuchy, Ben Arfa, plus less-finished versions of the likes of Cisse and Coloccini. Gouffran was still pretty useful at that point too iirc.

 

It was very different by the time Pards left, like, and while some of the incomings improved the shape of things, it was still piss. 

 

Pards 2012-14 is the answer to the original question imo.

[Kid Icarus]

43 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We had just finished 5th tbf.

 

He was initially disliked. Did ok. Did well. But as soon as he did poorly - the forum turned. A lot of it was down to him being unpopular in the first place. And a misdirected view that we should've been a top 7 team based on the squad filled with Anita, Gouffran, Jonas, Taylor's etc.

It was 100% better than the squad Pardew left. The squad Pardew left was Riviere and co. was it not? Ashley did that thing where he brings in a new stooge and invests in a good few players in his first summer. Between Pardew leaving and Steve Mc joining we didn't lose any "purples" and signed some talented players that went on to have decent careers.

 

Motivating players is a managers' job and I don't think they were disinterested. Just had a crap manager. Sissoko got lots of stick but to me he always seemed to try his best. He just wasn't a creative or clinical player. That Spurs doc showed he was a good professional. 

I might have my years mixed up. But is Jan 2013 not 4 months into his first genuinely bad spell at the club?

 

I remember a strong narrative that the season we finished 5th - we were lucky and the players carried Pardew. Not everyone of course but it was there.

 

 

We didn't like Pardew. As soon as he stunk people wanted him out. That's not unfair to say. It's human nature.

 

I'd say we were poor/didn't look right from the start of 12/13 and got worse, so about 6 months into the season. Ben Arfa was brilliant in August 2012 and papered over the cracks.

 

I don't remember that narrative at all at the time tbh, not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it. I do remember it being a more widespread opinion in hindsight though and it's one I'm more inclined to believe based on the rest of Pardew's career here and elsewhere.

 

Even by January 2013, being anti-Pardew was more an N-O thing. Over a year later there was an attempt to protest against him at home to Hull and I think it's fair to say it wasn't a view shared by the majority of match-going fans.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I'd say we were poor/didn't look right from the start of 12/13 and got worse, so about 6 months into the season. Ben Arfa was brilliant in August 2012 and papered over the cracks.

 

I don't remember that narrative at all at the time tbh, not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it. I do remember it being a more widespread opinion in hindsight though and it's one I'm more inclined to believe based on the rest of Pardew's career here and elsewhere.

 

Even by January 2013, being anti-Pardew was more an N-O thing. Over a year later there was an attempt to protest against him at home to Hull and I think it's fair to say it wasn't a view shared by the majority of match-going fans.

Most people were done with him by Arsenal 7-3 and that was Dec 2012.  4 months into the season. 
 

And yes I’m talking about on here. 

[wormy]

I'm just pleased I'm not on the page Andy linked.

 

Always hated him, me. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

Decided to depress myself and watch some of our highlights from earlier in the season. Ah man, how I miss us.

[Likelylad]

22 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Most people were done with him by Arsenal 7-3 and that was Dec 2012.  4 months into the season. 
 

And yes I’m talking about on here. 

The Reading game was the turning point for me. 
The crowd fume when he subbed Perch and Bigiramana on for Marveux and Cabaye.