Eddie Howe

[The Bonk]

5 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Haha, true but it looks bad on us to be wildly critical of Bruce and then not have any criticism of Howe

 

Yup, Howe will make mistakes and I feel he didn't prepare us as well as we should have been prepared for the Leicester match. There were points available for the taking and overall, he got it wrong.

 

[Hanshithispantz]

7 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I think in terms of defending as a unit we've looked a lot better, particularly since he brought Lewis and Manquillo in. The individual errors are killing us though.

Aye, I thought both today and Liverpool we actually looked like an actual team. Then a player does something mad like Willock galloping passed their fullback at 100mph into the centre circle allowing him to casually just walk towards our box.

 

 

[Heron]

Penalty changed the game vs Leicester, the same as our lack of one today effected the game. A good second goal from Leicester took the game away from us and Howe got it wrong by chasing it.

 

We tried to chase it vs Liverpool to a lesser degree and did so again today, but there has been improvement since Leicester and since Howe joined.

 

You can judge Howe and Bruce in a similar way, but they're both in very different situations. Bruce was grossly negligent this season, not like in the previous two when he had an axe to grind. He knew he eas untouchable under Ashley and his negligence has set us back 4months. What Howe needs, is a pre season primarily and then about 5 players. 

[HaydnNUFC]

Still think he's the right guy. The last few games have been bizarre, they haven't been woeful performances or us getting overrun but the scorelines look like pastings. So many individual errors are costing us its untrue, the first goal today was fucking embarrassing. 

[Thumbheed]

29 minutes ago, The Bonk said:

 

So you're pissed he hasn't parked the bus?  

• He rightfully put in Lewis, who's played decently until he gets injured. 
• Pulled Clark after his shit play against Norwich.
• Has to rotate back to said shit player to avoid burn out of somewhat capable players

Most of our goals are boneheaded individual errors of players who clearly aren't cut out for the league. I'm appalled that you're appalled.  

 

My concerns with Howe were and have always been he doesn't have a record of improving defences, which funnily enough is our weakest area and exactly what we need.  

 

So far, I've not seen anything to suggest I am wrong. 

 

As for team selection, he put Lewis in because Ritchie was suspended, Ritchie was 1st choice in all his games prior to suspension. (For someone who's analysed us for his interview, being unable to spot that Ritchie is poor and should not have been 1st choice is not a good sign)

 

Clarke was suspended, after Norwich and again should not have been selected in the first place. (We all know this)

 

Burn out? What burnout? We're not even half way through the season. 

 

Fernández has played one game for us, inspite of clearly being our best defender. (Again, something which everyone should agree on)

 

Shelvey and Willock have played the most games together, again, inspite of them both being defensively poor leaving massive gaps through the centre. 

 

None of what I've said is new to any us. I'm not saying anything which isn't a shared opinion for the majority of us, which, which makes it more frustrating that after a year off to reflect on his own weaknesses - and ours - he's still seemingly not addressed our defence in any meaningful manner and keeps making the most basic of mistakes.

 

Ultimately though, whatever defence you have of Howe is applicable to Bruce, so blaming the quality of the players just won't cut it.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Thumbheed

[sh74]

He’s took on a mammoth task. Even unai Emery wanted nowt to do with the job.

[TRon]

25 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

His management of the defence, in terms of selection and organisation, has been appaling and I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The goals have mostly been individual errors, not so much poor management. On the other hand, he's made a midfielder out of Joelinton, that's not happening if you've got Bruce still in charge. 

[Geogaddi]

Don’t even think he has had a bad start in all honesty, the Leicester game the only real bad result we have had under him , would have beaten Norwich easily if it wasn’t for Clarke getting sent off , beat Burnley , Deserved to beat Brentford , Arsenal Man City and Liverpool were always write offs , next month will tell us where we are really at.

[Thumbheed]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

The goals have mostly been individual errors, not so much poor management. On the other hand, he's made a midfielder out of Joelinton, that's not happening if you've got Bruce still in charge. 

 

We've conceded 11 games in 3 games.

 

How many individual errors are you seeing that I'm not?

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Thumbheed

[Heron]

7 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

My concerns with Howe were and have always been he doesn't have a record of improving defences, which funnily enough is our weakest area and exactly what we need.  

 

So far, I've not seen anything to suggest I am wrong. 

 

As for team selection, he put Lewis in because Ritchie was suspended, Ritchie was 1st choice in all his games prior to suspension. (For someone who's analysed us for his interview, being unable to spot that Ritchie is poor and should not have been 1st choice is not a good sign)

 

Clarke was suspended, after Norwich and again should not have been selected in the first place.

 

Burn out? What burnout? We're not even half way through the season. 

 

Fernández has played one game for us, again, inspite of clearly being our best defender. 

 

Shelvey and Willock have played the most games together, again, inspite of them both being defensively poor leaving massive gaps through the centre. 

 

None of what I've said is new to any us. I'm not saying anything which isn't a shared option of the majority which makes it more frustrating that after a year off to reflect on his own weaknesses - and ours - he's still seemingly not addressed our defence in any meaningful manner.

 

Ultimately though, whatever defense you have of Howe is applicable to Bruce, so blaming the quality of the players just won't cut it.

 

 

 

The majority of your post is reasonable I think until that last paragraph. Whilst the lack of quality of the players can be attributed to both, the lack of fitness and coordination can only be applied to one. Bruce was grossly negligent prior to his departure and we're in a whole shittier predicament than when Bruce joined. Bruce was his own enemy. 

[Thumbheed]

2 minutes ago, Heron said:

The majority of your post is reasonable I think until that last paragraph. Whilst the lack of quality of the players can be attributed to both, the lack of fitness and coordination can only be applied to one. Bruce was grossly negligent prior to his departure and we're in a whole shittier predicament than when Bruce joined. Bruce was his own enemy. 

Yeh agree with the point about fitness, but to counter that, fitness levels are now up and we're still defensively disorganised and uncoordinated. 

 

I haven't made my mind up in Howe and was actually excited by his appointment, but I'm judging him on things that are in his gift to change and so far, he doesn't seem to be making the impact I'd hoped. 

[TRon]

6 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

We've conceded 11 games in 3 games.

 

How many individual errors are you seeing that I'm not?

 

 

 

 

Quite a few, there was two today, and the other two were down to not having proper full backs. If you were in charge, what would you do differently? 

 

 

[Heron]

Just now, Thumbheed said:

Yeh agree with the point about fitness, but to counter that, fitness levels are now up and we're still defensively disorganised and uncoordinated. 

 

I haven't made my mind up in Howe and was actually excited by his appointment, but I'm judging him on things that are in his gift to change and so far, he doesn't seem to be making the impact I'd hoped. 

I think we press better, and higher. The problem we have is the lack of quality/correct personnel in positions/style he wants to play. Dare I say it, a Mo Diame type of player is probably what's needed, or maybe more than one. We lack a degree of dynamism and above all else our decision making is shocking. Even going forward... 

[Kanj]

The majority of goals we’ve conceded under Howe have been individual errors. Some of them standard, the others howlers. 

[toon25]

I love him to blow the lid on how undertrained, unfit, and tactically inept a lot of the players were when he arrived. He'd put paid to some of the criticism he's getting.

[Fantail Breeze]

People need to realise there is a correlation between the wrong selection/tactics and individual errors.

[Thumbheed]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

I think we press better, and higher. The problem we have is the lack of quality/correct personnel in positions/style he wants to play. Dare I say it, a Mo Diame type of player is probably what's needed, or maybe more than one. We lack a degree of dynamism and above all else our decision making is shocking. Even going forward... 

 

We're definitely more intense but again, I think some of our closing down can be quite disjointed and  uncoordinated. 

 

Agree with everything else tbf, I've said in another thread that I'd actually love to defend like we did under Keegan; with better attacking players who know how to manage the ball and therefore don't give opposition the oppurtunity to build  chances against us.

[toon25]

The other thing we can be certain of, that unlike many people we've had managing this club in the last 14 years, he's giving his absolute all to this job.

 

He's working fucking hard to try and bail out a ship that was more than half sunk

[The Prophet]

13 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

We've conceded 11 games in 3 games.

 

How many individual errors are you seeing that I'm not?

 

 

 

 

Seven of those against Liverpool and City who are absolutely lightyears ahead of everyone bar maybe Chelsea. Three of those were individual errors that gifted them goals.

[Fantail Breeze]

1 minute ago, ManDoon said:

Yes I’ve always been of the opinion that individual errors on a consistent basis are coaching deficiencies. Like I said I like Howe I’m just trying to remain objective on it 

 

I’ve said it for a few weeks but I think the reason is relatively clear.

 

Trying to get our players to play it out from the back, puts us under unnecessary pressure and increases the risk of individual errors.

 

They panic, which causes an already low on confidence team to be unsettled even further.

If you’re asking them to do things they don’t understand, they’re too busy trying to think of a million things rather than the basics and the end result is brain farts like today.

 

They’re not good enough and don’t have the right skillset to play this style, it’s why they were much more effective under Rafa’s defensive set up. Get the ball and play it forward quickly, countering.

[Heron]

You do have to remain objective but I guess, what I'd argue is what had the expectancy been from these last 3 games in particular, and then to add, how do people feel we'd have got better results from those 3.

 

I'm of the view that the penalty decision(s) vs Leicester and Man City and the lack of stopping play for Liverpools first change the initial dynamic of all 3 fixtures. Where Howe had got it wrong for me is in that, he had chased the games at 2 down. However, in all honesty, is that a bad trait? I mean, I'd expect to chase the game at 2 down vs anyone other than day the top 6.

 

 

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Seven of those against Liverpool and City who are absolutely lightyears ahead of everyone bar maybe Chelsea. Three of those were individual errors that gifted them goals.

 

And once you go behind to teams of that quality, they are going to kill you when you are chasing the game. Leicester was the one really bad performance, and even there we got done by bad refereeing. 

[Thumbheed]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Quite a few, there was two today, and the other two were down to not having proper full backs. If you were in charge, what would you do differently? 

 

 

 

I suppose it boils down to what degree you class a mistake as a mistake, and yeh I suppose there has been a few more clear errors BUT ultimately, the vast majority of goals are as a result of a mistake, no? 

 

I'd select my best defenders, I'd put more thought into which CM are going to provide the best protection for our frail defence and I'd take a leaf out the books of managers who are all able to coach a well drilled defence and make it greater than the sum of it's part. 

[Heron]

3 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

We're definitely more intense but again, I think some of our closing down can be quite disjointed and  uncoordinated. 

 

Agree with everything else tbf, I've said in another thread that I'd actually love to defend like we did under Keegan; with better attacking players who know how to manage the ball and therefore don't give opposition the oppurtunity to build  chances against us.

I think that's partially a coaching issue, but largely more down to incorrect personnel.

 

I think with fresh legs and more importantly frrsh minds, you'll see us push back a lot more and we'll stop teams getting at us as much. 

[Thumbheed]

6 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Seven of those against Liverpool and City who are absolutely lightyears ahead of everyone bar maybe Chelsea. Three of those were individual errors that gifted them goals.

 

Tbf, that stat was in response to a point made about mistakes being the reason we're conceding where as I was taking the wider view that Howe has selected poorly and not seemingly improved our organisation.