Eddie Howe

[madras]

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

No. He said, he knew he wasn't ready but Alex got injured, the team needed him, so he declared himself fit. If Alex hadn't gone down, Wilson wouldn't have declared himself fit.

 

Howe has managed Wilson for what? 6 or 7 years? He knows him well. He knows he's a good lad, a proper professional who will sacrifice his body for the betterment of the team. It's Howe's job to protect the player's longevity for the medium-term betterment of the team. He didn't. He played him 90 minutes, game after game until his injury-prone, only fit striker broke down again. That's poor management.

 

Every single outfield player with regular minutes has been injured this season. Every last one (except Bruno actually). It's not just bad luck. It's a lack of due care.

I would say it's circumstances. Unlucky injuries( turf toe, dislocations, spinal stuff which isnt too many minutes), suspension (looking at you here Tonali) mean things get stretched, it happens at most clubs that don't have Man City's type depth and thi is get risked. Wilson has played through that type of thing here before and got away with it.......and "he declared himself fit".

 

 

Edited February 9 by madras

[The College Dropout]

Is playing a 32-year-old injury player 3 times a week for 90 minutes several weeks in a row - sensible management? @madras

 

You seem hell-bent on defending Howe rather than just looking at things objectively.

 

 

Edited February 9 by The College Dropout

[Interpolic]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Is playing a 32-year-old injury player 3 times a week for 90 minutes several weeks in a row - sensible management? @madras

 

You seem hell-bent on defending Howe rather than just looking at things objectively.

 

 

 

 

Who else was available?  Is this where your mythical kids who are in any way ready for PL football come in again?

[madras]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Is playing a 32-year-old injury player 3 times a week for 90 minutes several weeks in a row - sensible management? @madras

 

You seem hell-bent on defending Howe rather than just looking at things objectively.

 

 

 

It depends on what the medical staff and the player himself say. If it turns out the staff said we shouldn't but he did then I'm right with you.

 

You seem hell bent on acting like you know what was going on instead of looking at things objectively. We have nowhere near enough info

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Interpolic said:

 

Who else was available?  Is this where your mythical kids who are in any way ready for PL football come in again?

You're avoiding the question. 

 

The answer is obvious - that does not seem a sensible thing to do. Due to other circumstances, our manager decided to take risks that backfired. That's not bad luck.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

It depends on what the medical staff and the player himself say. If it turns out the staff said we shouldn't but he did then I'm right with you.

 

You seem hell bent on acting like you know what was going on instead of looking at things objectively. We have nowhere near enough info

Do you not know that Wilson is injury-prone?

 

Football is a lot simpler than you think it is. Medical departments have far less sway or knowledge than you think when it comes to injuries. Again, the concussion protocol is a pressing example.

[The Prophet]

[BoSelecta]

If you ignore the context in which those risks were taken & the available options (or lack of) to taking them then yes; Howe is an idiot. 
 

Or if actually consider all of the contextual information we have and still arrive at the same conclusion; you are an idiot.

[Interpolic]

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You're avoiding the question. 

 

The answer is obvious - that does not seem a sensible thing to do. Due to other circumstances, our manager decided to take risks that backfired. That's not bad luck.

 

No, you're avoiding the context.  Who else was he supposed to play?

[madras]

7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Do you not know that Wilson is injury-prone?

 

Football is a lot simpler than you think it is. Medical departments have far less sway or knowledge than you think when it comes to injuries. Again, the concussion protocol is a pressing example.

Yes I know he is.

 

Football fitness is also quite simple, get the medical team to see if they can play, if the player agrees, then play. May be a full game, may be part of it.

 

It'll be interesting to see your team for tomorrow with no Isak or possibly Gordon and you won't want Wilson risked from the start.

 

 

Edited February 9 by madras

[The College Dropout]

Just now, BoSelecta said:

If you ignore the context in which those risks were taken & the available options (or lack of) to taking them then yes; Howe is an idiot. 
 

Or if actually consider all of the contextual information we have and still arrive at the same conclusion; you are an idiot.

I'm not saying he's an idiot. In this context, you understand the decision. But it's not bad luck. He has contributed to the problem. There were other options that he deemed inferior. The upside of those would be less injury risk.

 

So we are lying in the bed that he has helped to make.

[STM]

46 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Think it was half a season. He never fully recovered physically.

 

This doesn't make sense. You take a risk because you think the upside is greater, it backfires - you accept responsibility and fault for taking that risk.

 

The injuries to key players Willock, Isak, Wilson, Joelinton could've been prevented if we were more cautious with their rehabilitation. Howe has to take some responsibility for that.

 

So when we talk about "bad luck" with injuries - an element of that isn't bad luck. We've knowingly taken risks and they've backfired. That's chickens coming home to roost. So Howe doesn't get a complete pass on the injury front.

 

I understand why Howe made the decisions he did. I just think a lot of his decisions have been short-sighted and not worked anyway.

 

I hope he learns and improves going forward.

 

 

It does make sense though.

 

Don't take this the wrong way TCD, I agree with plenty of your posts and i like alot of them (I hope you notice) but you seem to have a real issue with the idea of risk and gambling in football.

 

You seem to be under the impression that everything is a black and white, clear cut decision or that everything should be obvious without hindsight.

 

On transfers, you think that it's possible to find transfers with zero risk attached to them and now with injuries you think no manager should ever risk a player coming back early? It's just not the real world man.

 

Here's a hypothetical scenario:

 

A striker is coming back from injury, he's a week away from the scheduled time out.

 

Bam, the teams other striker breaks his leg.

 

The manager goes to his medical team and asks if the other striker is ready to play yet.

 

The medical team would NEVER talk in absolutes, they say that x player is close and there's no signs that a reoccurrence is likely but there's a small chance he might hurt himself again.

 

Your the manager, what do you do? 

 

Option 1: You don't play the striker, you go into the game without your main goal threat, you have to move one of your creative players out of position to cover and you massively decrease the likelihood of winning the game. On the other hand, you might get a slightly fitter version of your currently injured striker next week.

 

Option 2: You take the risk, you try and get 60 minutes out of the striker, try and win the game and you hope that he doesn't pull up injured.

 

 

What I'm saying here is that neither option above are correct or incorrect ones, it's a question of risk, weighing up the pros and cons and making the best decision possible. You are absolutely correct to say that those risks haven't paid off but to say the manager (management team), should get some big criticism is overboard IMO. They zigged when they should have tagged. I'd certainly be questioning the advice of the medical department.

 

It's the same decisions every management team the world over, some times they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong.

[STM]

20 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

Who else was available?  Is this where your mythical kids who are in any way ready for PL football come in again?

 

This is it in a nutshell. Howe is being given a couple of shit options and getting hammered either way.

[The Prophet]

I'm not even sure what the point of this debate is.

 

Everyone acknowledges the injury crisis.

 

Everyone acknowledges Howe was between a rock and a hard place.

 

So is it just about whether we assign any blame to Howe? 

[STM]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

I'm not even sure what the point of this debate is.

 

Everyone acknowledges the injury crisis.

 

Everyone acknowledges Howe was between a rock and a hard place.

 

So is it just about whether we assign any blame to Howe? 

 

Basically. 

 

Howe has been put in a ridiculous situation with injuries. Has he rushed players back? Yes. Is it what alot of managers would have done? Yes. Are there lessons to be learned as a management and medical team? Yes. Will we ever likely have an injury crisis like this? Fuck, I hope not.

[STM]

One last thing on injuries. 

 

Callum Wilson has absolutely zero leg to stand on (metaphor intended). Howe hasn't to take any responsibility on that one.

 

Wilson is a crock and has been from day one. I love him as a player but I'd argue that his injury record has caused us more problems than his goals have done good.

 

It's time to let him go and get someone who, we think, we can rely on.

[James]

Rafa would have done better this season. Discuss

[Tiresias]

I'm inclined to agree that Howe has made some mistakes overplaying players, even if that would mean playing some out of position who weren't really adequate replacements but due to the latter fact I can't be overly harsh on Howe for it. A win or even a draw over a loss can mean finishing the season a position or two higher which means players get bigger bonuses, probably get higher sell on fee, may mean qualifying for europe which means huge extra revenue for the club and job security for the manager etc etc etc, the pressure to play particularly a forward who scores needed goals is huge. Learning experience for sure, but it's easier for fans to think oh better not risk this game is a write off anyway than the manager. 

 

Quote

but I'd argue that his injury record has caused us more problems than his goals have done good.

 

Hmmm maybe but his 18 goals last season were surely the difference between champions league and maybe scraping europa conference?

[sushimonster85]

2 minutes ago, STM said:

Wilson is a crock and has been from day one. I love him as a player but I'd argue that his injury record has caused us more problems than his goals have done good.

 

In general, or this season? Because in general that's super harsh. Pre-takeover his goals kept us up. 

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, James said:

Rafa would have done better this season. Discuss

 

No.

[Tiresias]

3 minutes ago, James said:

Rafa would have done better this season. Discuss

 

Love Rafa for what he did but we'd all be raging at how negative we were after the football of last season injuries or not

[STM]

2 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said:

 

In general, or this season? Because in general that's super harsh. Pre-takeover his goals kept us up. 

 

Yeah fair enough, perhaps a bit of frustration creeping out.

 

Just does my head in that we have 2 belting strikers and one is a permanent crock and the other is his fucking apprentice. 

[Shearergol]

22 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I'm not even sure what the point of this debate is.

 

Everyone acknowledges the injury crisis.

 

Everyone acknowledges Howe was between a rock and a hard place.

 

So is it just about whether we assign any blame to Howe? 

 

Point scoring.

[sushimonster85]

9 minutes ago, James said:

Rafa would have done better this season. Discuss

 

Maybe, but I highly doubt Rafa gets us CL football last season. So he wouldn't have had that to deal with. But even then, as much as I loved Rafa and he was exactly what we needed at the time, the way we play under Howe is far more entertaining. And once we have more depth, is a far better way of going toe-to-toe with the big sides.

[thomas]

Howe's addiction to Dan Burn is heartbreaking.