Eddie Howe

[80]

1 minute ago, Izakaya said:

 

There must have been something in the rumours then, I can't see some minor twitter chat being that detrimental to our form if there wasnt some truth to it. 

I think there's a ton of reasons not to give it any credit, and plenty of reasons for our form to collapse around then regardless of any off pitch stuff. We've got problems with tactics now, but there's no denying we were shattered through injuries and fatigue in those days.

[The Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Izakaya said:

 

There must have been something in the rumours then, I can't see some minor twitter chat being that detrimental to our form if there wasnt some truth to it. 

 

[Conjo]

2 hours ago, Displayname said:

Dont agree with his lack of trust in Eddie and that he can turn it around, but agree with pretty much everything else. I dont care about the results, its the performances the last 3 months now that really bugs me. Its not about the players because the same players looked much better in the past. 

They just look completely shot of confidence and have no idea what they are doing, which you cant blame any other than the manager for. The buck stops with him. 

 

I dont doubt Eddies qualities, but im also concerned that he works to hard and is prone to burn out. I really do believe/hope that he will turn it around next season after a summer break and a less hectic schedule being out of Europe. 

 

The months where we couldn't field a starting 11 with first team players you mean?  My main critism has been that Howe should have started rotating players more frequently much much earlier in the season, and not risked players who were playing through injury/with niggles or just coming back from injury. However, once we were knee deep in injury shit, I honestly think no manager could have done noticably better than Howe has.

 

Pointing at Klopp and how Liverpool has played with an injury ridden squad isn't really comparable (not saying you specifically have made this argument, but seen others have) considering that they have much more quality in depth in their squad, more quality in their youth system and have had many more years to settle their set up towards making players ready to play in Klopps system. Klopp hasn't masterminded some kind of special tactics in a time of crisis - looks to me like they play like they always do with high tempo, high press (maybe some of their younger players have been more energetic than some of their ageing seniors?), which is exactly what Howe has tried to do with us through this period.

 

Feel very confident that Howe will get it right. The last 24hrs it has been surreal to read some of the opinions on here just because we didn't win at a ground we haven't won at since 2012(?) against a team that is looking a lot better than they did at the start of the season, with a good manager and many talented players.

[Zero]

Just win the next match and this place will be in peace for a few months

[timeEd32]

4 hours ago, Dokko said:

So glad I settled with beat the mackems, and fuck the rest of the season off mentality when I did. He has this season whether we lose every game or not, just makes the decision very easy come the end for the club. 

 

I am surprised though he hasn't turned it around yet. Some moments like villa and wolves, but moments, not any kind of form or structure. He's not learned any lessons either, which means he's too stubborn or doesn't know how to change. The elite managers adapt and sometimes reinvent themselves. I thought Eddie was going to be the new breed of that. This season has shown his limitations, and it's shit as you want him to do well and get back on it, but time is running out.

 

Get humped out the cup at the weekend, and there really isn't much to look forward to, just go through the motions, and hope no more players get injured. Not the inspiring March to the top we all were experiencing this time last season.

 

Something happened around the end of Nov, early December. Not the CL. That was tough, but expected before a ball was kicked. Something behind the scenes. Some strong rumours around that time, I wonder if he feels let down by a few and with the club not backing him in the winter window, feels a bit isolated. 

 

 

We don't need to speculate. We don't need a hotel scandal or a behind the scenes fallout with Ashworth. We all watched this play out in real time. 

 

We played a month+ with a mounting injury crisis and a game every 3-4 days. The cracks started to show at Bournemouth and then, after an international break, we had 11 players give their all with three monumental performances in a week. At the end of the third one we lost our GK. A week later the wheels started coming off.

 

That's what happened in late November / early December.

[80]

1 hour ago, timeEd32 said:

 

We don't need to speculate. We don't need a hotel scandal or a behind the scenes fallout with Ashworth. We all watched this play out in real time. 

 

We played a month+ with a mounting injury crisis and a game every 3-4 days. The cracks started to show at Bournemouth and then, after an international break, we had 11 players give their all with three monumental performances in a week. At the end of the third one we lost our GK. A week later the wheels started coming off.

 

That's what happened in late November / early December.

Spot on. No other explanation is required for things going to pot around then; it was pretty obvious it was going to happen and it wasn't really avoidable once we'd gone past a certain threshold. You'd need rock solid proof before you started rewriting the history of that time.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Zero said:

Just win the next match and this place will be in peace for a few months

 

Nah, even if we beat City it'll still be turgid on here if we don't beat West Ham. 

[Displayname]

5 hours ago, Conjo said:

 

The months where we couldn't field a starting 11 with first team players you mean?  My main critism has been that Howe should have started rotating players more frequently much much earlier in the season, and not risked players who were playing through injury/with niggles or just coming back from injury. However, once we were knee deep in injury shit, I honestly think no manager could have done noticably better than Howe has.

 

Pointing at Klopp and how Liverpool has played with an injury ridden squad isn't really comparable (not saying you specifically have made this argument, but seen others have) considering that they have much more quality in depth in their squad, more quality in their youth system and have had many more years to settle their set up towards making players ready to play in Klopps system. Klopp hasn't masterminded some kind of special tactics in a time of crisis - looks to me like they play like they always do with high tempo, high press (maybe some of their younger players have been more energetic than some of their ageing seniors?), which is exactly what Howe has tried to do with us through this period.

 

Feel very confident that Howe will get it right. The last 24hrs it has been surreal to read some of the opinions on here just because we didn't win at a ground we haven't won at since 2012(?) against a team that is looking a lot better than they did at the start of the season, with a good manager and many talented players.

Im not mad because we lost away to Chelsea away, Im mad because we play like shit. Like I said, its not the results.

 

Injuries and fatigue of players is a partial explaination and maybe the trigger,  but I think he handled the period very poorly not giving players time to recover. I think its foolish to dismiss the idea of giving youngsters oppurtunities when our main players clearly were totally knackered from 60-70mins every single game. And like you said he should have rotated players earlier on in the season, but also filled the squad up with players he could actually trust in situations like these and not let them just rot on the bench (Hall/Dummett/Richie) if he had plans to compete in all cups(which I think was a bad idea in our first CL campaign in decades).

 

And the bad form has just continued after getting players back and with a less demanding schedule. So personally I think the main explaination is fatigue in Howe himself and him lacking confidence and conviction after we got fucked against PSG. I could see it in him that it really fucking hurt.

[The Prophet]

We're currently a bit hit and miss. Since the turn of the year we've turned in some decent performances including City, Villa and Wolves. On the other hand we've been poor v Luton, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

There is some mitigation. Pope's injury fundamentally alters our defensive shape, while we miss Joelinton's physicality and athleticism in the middle. Even then we're just a bit of a soft touch, far too easy to play through. We've lost the resilience and awkwardness of last season.

 

Some of it is definitely tactical, we're simply not able to physically press like we were last year, we tend to play out better stuff with a deeper midfield, hitting teams on the counter. I do also wonder if a bit of mental fatigue is taking its toll. Burn spoke in October about how it'd already felt like a full season, while Schar and Isak have spoken about what a long season it's been.

 

It's hard to nail down and while I think we're slowly turning it round, we still lack defensive consistency.

 

 

Edited March 13 by The Prophet

[Displayname]

1 hour ago, The Prophet said:

We're currently a bit hit and miss. Since the turn of the year we've turned in some decent performances including City, Villa and Wolves. On the other hand we've been poor v Luton, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

There is some mitigation. Pope's injury fundamentally alters our defensive shape, while we miss Joelinton's physicality and athleticism in the middle. Even then we're just a bit of a soft touch, far too easy to play through. We've lost the resilience and awkwardness of last season.

 

Some of it is definitely tactical, we're simply not able to physically press like we were last year, we tend to play out better stuff with a deeper midfield, hitting teams on the counter. I do also wonder if a bit of mental fatigue is taking its toll. Burn spoke in October about how it'd already felt like a full season, while Schar and Isak have spoken about what a long season it's been.

 

It's hard to nail down and while I think we're slowly turning it round, we still lack defensive consistency.

 

 

 

You thought we were decent against City? I remember Isak and Gordon scoring 2 wonder goals and City being totally dominant the rest of the match, but couldnt get the goals until De Bruyne came on.

And that list of bad performances is just a little teaser of the full list(which I definitely would include City on).

 

 

Edited March 13 by Displayname

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Man City are always going to be dominant. 

[Displayname]

18 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Man City are always going to be dominant. 

Im not just taking about possession.

[The Prophet]

21 minutes ago, Displayname said:

You thought we were decent against City? I remember Isak and Gordon scoring 2 wonder goals and City being totally dominant the rest of the match, but couldnt get the goals until De Bruyne came on.

And that list of bad performances is just a little teaser of the full list(which I definitely would include City on).

 

 

 

 

There's a different debate to be had there, but it wasn't the point I was making.

[gjohnson]

There are clear and obvious mistakes being made. Burn is constantly targeted by the opposition as they know he's not going to do anything useful with regard to attack and is too slow physically and mentally to be effective against a competent opponent.

 

The opposition can see it, we can see it, hell even the Sky numpties can see it. Why doesn't EH? Its not like he doesn't have the option to change in that position with Targett, Livramento, Hall, and even Krath being able to play there.

 

Only reason I can think is that EH thinks Burn is one of the leaders given that he was Captain vs Chelsea. He has been useful in the past but is clearly not the answer to the question everyone but EH has been asked

[Conjo]

2 hours ago, Displayname said:

Im not mad because we lost away to Chelsea away, Im mad because we play like shit. Like I said, its not the results.

 

Injuries and fatigue of players is a partial explaination and maybe the trigger,  but I think he handled the period very poorly not giving players time to recover. I think its foolish to dismiss the idea of giving youngsters oppurtunities when our main players clearly were totally knackered from 60-70mins every single game. And like you said he should have rotated players earlier on in the season, but also filled the squad up with players he could actually trust in situations like these and not let them just rot on the bench (Hall/Dummett/Richie) if he had plans to compete in all cups(which I think was a bad idea in our first CL campaign in decades).

 

And the bad form has just continued after getting players back and with a less demanding schedule. So personally I think the main explaination is fatigue in Howe himself and him lacking confidence and conviction after we got fucked against PSG. I could see it in him that it really fucking hurt.

 

Was maybe harsh to quote you, as I for the most part agree with what you're saying, with the exception of the bit I put in bold. Didn't mean you specifically lashing out because we lost to Chelsea either, but others on here. I can understand that you're mad at the performances, I'm not happy either, but it helps to put it in context for me at least. What is realistic to expect out of the squad that has been available, who haven't been able to be rotated/rested properly? I think, looking back, that the general expectations taking our injury/fatigue problems into account has been way too high. 

[54]

Just now, gjohnson said:

There are clear and obvious mistakes being made. Burn is constantly targeted by the opposition as they know he's not going to do anything useful with regard to attack and is too slow physically and mentally to be effective against a competent opponent.

 

The opposition can see it, we can see it, hell even the Sky numpties can see it. Why doesn't EH? Its not like he doesn't have the option to change in that position with Targett, Livramento, Hall, and even Krath being able to play there.

 

Only reason I can think is that EH thinks Burn is one of the leaders given that he was Captain vs Chelsea. He has been useful in the past but is clearly not the answer to the question everyone but EH has been asked

Fat chance of that with (Until Monday) one leg like  

[SUPERTOON]

43 minutes ago, Displayname said:

You thought we were decent against City? I remember Isak and Gordon scoring 2 wonder goals and City being totally dominant the rest of the match, but couldnt get the goals until De Bruyne came on.

And that list of bad performances is just a little teaser of the full list(which I definitely would include City on).

 

 

 

We where very good against City for the first half, second half we couldn’t keep up the intensity or make any good subs and lost to the best team in the world in the last minute.

[Geogaddi]

Its madness how quickly it has all just fell apart,  to think how good we looked in that home game against Man United only three months ago, we only won 1-0 but it could have been 3, 4 or 5 really with how well we played, this was a week after hammering Chelsea 4-1 and 3 days after being robbed by the ref of a win in Paris.  You would never in a million years have foreseen how badly our season would collapse after that week, yet Pope got injured then Trippier lost his head at Everton a few days later and we have never been the same since. Still fully 100% behind Eddie whatever happens in the remainder of the season. but its obvious we need a big clear out in the summer and I just hope he is ruthless enough to do it, as if he isn't and we start next season badly playing the same way we are now then its going to be hard to continue defending him.

 

 

Edited March 13 by Geogaddi

[gjohnson]

1 minute ago, 54 said:

Fat chance of that with (Until Monday) one leg like  

I'll be proud to see Man City roughly taking us from behind without lube on Sat ?

[SUPERTOON]

People wanting Howe to be ruthless in the summer regarding the squad, probably easier said than done considering FFP. Even harder considering we won’t exactly be getting big money for anyone who we would like to get rid of.

[Displayname]

12 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

We where very good against City for the first half, second half we couldn’t keep up the intensity or make any good subs and lost to the best team in the world in the last minute.

First half was pretty good with two great counterattack goals and not letting them get to many chances. I will concede on that. 

 

 

 

[The Prophet]

19 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

There are clear and obvious mistakes being made. Burn is constantly targeted by the opposition as they know he's not going to do anything useful with regard to attack and is too slow physically and mentally to be effective against a competent opponent.

 

The opposition can see it, we can see it, hell even the Sky numpties can see it. Why doesn't EH? Its not like he doesn't have the option to change in that position with Targett, Livramento, Hall, and even Krath being able to play there.

 

Only reason I can think is that EH thinks Burn is one of the leaders given that he was Captain vs Chelsea. He has been useful in the past but is clearly not the answer to the question everyone but EH has been asked

 

For better or worse Burn is in the side for i) height ii) to drop into a back three when we have the ball. The debate is then, is Livramento so far ahead of him in terms of ability that he offsets that? I think he probably is.

 

That said, Trippier, Botman and Burn have all gone through poor runs of form and have been targeted to various extents this season. Our back line is painfully slow, no Pope means they aren't confident enough to push up and a midfield of Longstaff-Bruno-Miley has left them exposed and easy to pull around the park. So while Burn has had his share of poor games, I do feel he is scapegoated at times.

[Upthemags]

23 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

Its madness how quickly it has all just fell apart,  to think how good we looked in that home game against Man United only three months ago, we only won 1-0 but it could have been 3, 4 or 5 really with how well we played, this was a week after hammering Chelsea 4-1 and 3 days after being robbed by the ref of a win in Paris.  You would never in a million years have foreseen how badly our season would collapse after that week, yet Pope got injured then Trippier lost his head at Everton a few days later and we have never been the same since. Still fully 100% behind Eddie whatever happens in the remainder of the season. but its obvious we need a big clear out in the summer and I just hope he is ruthless enough to do it, as if he isn't and we start next season badly playing the same way we are now then its going to be hard to continue defending him.

 

 

 

Eh, Pretty quickly after Villa I felt we didn't look the same team as last season. What was that stretch we had after AV, lost 3 of 4, or 4 or 5, or around that. I guess the mollifying factor, from the outset, was that we were supposed to have a down season after qualifying for CL, so it didn't quite shock the nerves then.

[Zero]

11 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

People wanting Howe to be ruthless in the summer regarding the squad, probably easier said than done considering FFP. Even harder considering we won’t exactly be getting big money for anyone who we would like to get rid of.

 

A big clear out would only be possible if it’s funded with sales of BG and/or Isak. People got to be realistic

[jackyboy]

We look much more solid at the back and composed as a team when we have a fit, in form Trippier in there. I think it underestimated just what an influence he can be