Eddie Howe

[Menace]

Man we desperately need a signing. It's been the same rehashed conversation for months on end now.

[80]

1 minute ago, Menace said:

Man we desperately need a signing. It's been the same rehashed conversation for months on end now.

Careful or you'll get Dominic Calvert.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, 80 said:

No, I'm not saying Minteh covered the shortfall we ended up with, but - off my memory and a fag packet - he would've covered the shortfall we STILL would've had even if we'd spent zero last summer and not got Livramento and co. We still had debts to cover from Gordon, Isak, Bruno et al.

 

So, in a rough sense, we've swapped Elliot Anderson for Livramento, Barnes, Tonali and Minteh (Mr Walking Debt Reduction). Excluding Hall who we've only just bought, of course. 

 

On paper, that doesn't look like bad business, to be fair. It's potentially hugely inflated the amount of realisable PSR value in our squad - in 3 or 4 years' time they might still be worth £150m-200m to us, rather than zero if we'd invested nothing last summer (the Ashley trap). It's fair to call it into question though, particularly in retrospect (can't help but feel we might not be having this conversation had Tonali not been a gambler).

 

My numbers might be a bit off as it's a few weeks since I thought about it, but you get the gist.

Nah if we didn’t spend anything last summer we wouldn’t have needed to sell this summer. Or it would’ve been minimal.  Obviously we needed to build the squad. 
 

We’ve sold Anderson and Minteh for 1 season of those players. Harvey Barnes and Tonali will cost another 30m this season. Hopefully we don’t need to do dodgy deals next summer to cover it.  

[TRon]

4 hours ago, The Prophet said:

 

I think its unlikely that Barnes was signed as a "bench player" mind.

 

At the time he signed, we had no established left winger and two established right wingers.

 

Gordon went on to become our established left winger, cemented by Barnes' long term injury, but we can't have forseen that at the time.

 

 

 

 

I think quite a few did foresee it though. At least many questioned why we had bought two very highly rated left wingers when we desperately needed a right winger. I rate both Gordon and Barnes btw, did even when we signed them, but it did mean we spent a lot of money on one position.

[Kanji]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

It’s become apparent that Minteh didn’t cover the PSR shortfall though. 
 

we added about 40m euros to our amortisation costs at a crude guesstimate in that window.  Excluding Hall.  
 

But you are right we obviously needed to strengthen. But did we strengthen wisely considering the challenges and expectations?

I assumed this last season. And it just didn’t materialise regularly. 

There wasn’t much a chance until late in season and Barnes still looked he wasn’t fully fit or right. This is far different now. 

[Ronaldo]

2 hours ago, nufc123 said:

Gordon Isak Murphy probably.

Depressing af that, mind.

[80]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Nah if we didn’t spend anything last summer we wouldn’t have needed to sell this summer. Or it would’ve been minimal.  Obviously we needed to build the squad. 
 

We’ve sold Anderson and Minteh for 1 season of those players. Harvey Barnes and Tonali will cost another 30m this season. Hopefully we don’t need to do dodgy deals next summer to cover it.  

We definitely would've required sales income, and there still haven't been any willing takers for the ones we want to sell...

 

If Barnes and Tonali are that devastating to our ongoing picture, then cumulatively Gordon, Isak, Botman, Bruno and all the rest must be much worse, and we'd recouped nothing but ASM over the three years to June. We either choose to get on the hamster wheel to gain a viable squad or we don't - as I say, even if we didn't need to sell anyone if we'd spent nothing last summer, we'd still be in the position now of needing to find replacements and backups for Trippier, Kelly, Longstaff and Gordon, in addition to RW, RCB, ST etc. It doesn't bear thinking about.

 

We shouldn't need to do anything silly next summer - as I understand it we've now got room for substantial losses all over again. If we want to go down that route, which is another matter. Either way, we do now have a squad that's verging on being mostly sellable nowadays, which unfortunately is the highest praise in the world of fair play.

[nufcjmc]

A fairly big influx from the academy, kicking can down the road a year with extension or a mini rebuild of squad players is needed by next summer based on those currently in their final 12 months some of which already signed mini extensions for the coming season

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/newcastle-united/vertragsende/verein/762

 

 

[nufc123]

7 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

Depressing af that, mind.

Yeah

[timeEd32]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Nah if we didn’t spend anything last summer we wouldn’t have needed to sell this summer. Or it would’ve been minimal.  Obviously we needed to build the squad. 
 

We’ve sold Anderson and Minteh for 1 season of those players. Harvey Barnes and Tonali will cost another 30m this season. Hopefully we don’t need to do dodgy deals next summer to cover it.  

 

I think this is what's overlooked too much in discussions about transfer budgets and what we're going to spend, which is really just another way of my long time crusade to please talk about wages. The increase we got from Sela last season and moving forward pays for Tonali. That's it, nothing else.

[The College Dropout]

6 minutes ago, 80 said:

We definitely would've required sales income, and there still haven't been any willing takers for the ones we want to sell...

 

If Barnes and Tonali are that devastating to our ongoing picture, then cumulatively Gordon, Isak, Botman, Bruno and all the rest must be much worse, and we'd recouped nothing but ASM over the three years to June. We either choose to get on the hamster wheel to gain a viable squad or we don't - as I say, even if we didn't need to sell anyone if we'd spent nothing last summer, we'd still be in the position now of needing to find replacements and backups for Trippier, Kelly, Longstaff and Gordon, in addition to RW, RCB, ST etc. It doesn't bear thinking about.

 

We shouldn't need to do anything silly next summer - as I understand it we've now got room for substantial losses all over again. If we want to go down that route, which is another matter. Either way, we do now have a squad that's verging on being mostly sellable nowadays, which unfortunately is the highest praise in the world of fair play.

The others you named have all contributed significantly on the pitch. 
 

My overall point is we’ve paid a premium last summer for a number of players and nobody made a massive impact. The window and other decisions hasn’t been deemed a success and the club have pivoted strategy as a result. 
 

I don’t think we have room for substantial losses. Our squad cost has increased and it carries year on year.  Our revenues need to increase. And that includes selling more players.  

17 minutes ago, Kanji said:

There wasn’t much a chance until late in season and Barnes still looked he wasn’t fully fit or right. This is far different now. 

He barely tried it before the injury. Gordon would come off Barnes. 
 

In any case Gordon has proven himself at LW. Barnes is proven at LW. 

 

 

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

I think this is what's overlooked too much in discussions about transfer budgets and what we're going to spend, which is really just another way of my long time crusade to please talk about wages. The increase we got from Sela last season and moving forward pays for Tonali. That's it, nothing else.

Aye and wage increases absorb the money saved on fee amortisation.  
 

Isak costs £10m per year for the fee and I guess £5m on wages. Hope he extends his contract. A new 5 year deal means his fee will be £8m per year but he’ll likely earn £7.5m per year. 
 

Revenues revenues revenues. 

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

I think quite a few did foresee it though. At least many questioned why we had bought two very highly rated left wingers when we desperately needed a right winger. I rate both Gordon and Barnes btw, did even when we signed them, but it did mean we spent a lot of money on one position.

 

Had a quick look in the thread from last summer. Can find hardly any comments suggesting he was a definite left winger, but plenty suggesting he could play a verity of positions.

[PauloGeordio]

 

“Of course I’ve spoken to PIF and will continue to speak to them. The relationship is good,” Howe said when asked about our majority owners.

“Since they’ve been here and I want to make this clear, they’ve done some amazing things for the football club and I think they are absolutely going to do some amazing things for the football club in the future. Everyone should be very excited about what is ahead for Newcastle.”

 

All aboard 

[The College Dropout]

Members of NO didn’t buy him for £45m. Nor did they bring him off the bench or start him at LW in those first 6 months. Or at any other time.  
 

[Yorkie]

3 minutes ago, PauloGeordio said:

 

“Of course I’ve spoken to PIF and will continue to speak to them. The relationship is good,” Howe said when asked about our majority owners.

“Since they’ve been here and I want to make this clear, they’ve done some amazing things for the football club and I think they are absolutely going to do some amazing things for the football club in the future. Everyone should be very excited about what is ahead for Newcastle.”

 

All aboard 

 

Recent quotes?

[Groundhog63]

8 minutes ago, PauloGeordio said:

 

“Of course I’ve spoken to PIF and will continue to speak to them. The relationship is good,” Howe said when asked about our majority owners.

“Since they’ve been here and I want to make this clear, they’ve done some amazing things for the football club and I think they are absolutely going to do some amazing things for the football club in the future. Everyone should be very excited about what is ahead for Newcastle.”

 

All aboard 

[Kanji]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Members of NO didn’t buy him for £45m. Nor did they bring him off the bench or start him at LW in those first 6 months. Or at any other time.  
 

 

Mate. At Everton he played 9 times at RW and 6 times at LW, the other appearances were central. He played 7 times at LW and 8 times at RW after signing for NUFC in 22/23. He played against us while at Everton at RW. Most people assumed he's versatile but would probably play RW in place of Almiron as soon we signed Barnes. Barnes was not up to speed with Eddie tactics and fitness; Gordon was. Gordon was shit hot to start last season and Barnes never really took off. Barnes then got hurt very early in the season and took ages to return. Meanwhile, everyone knows Howe takes time to trust certain players so persisted.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Nah if we didn’t spend anything last summer we wouldn’t have needed to sell this summer. Or it would’ve been minimal.  Obviously we needed to build the squad. 
 

We’ve sold Anderson and Minteh for 1 season of those players. Harvey Barnes and Tonali will cost another 30m this season. Hopefully we don’t need to do dodgy deals next summer to cover it.  

 

If we want to sign what we want this summer, this is going to happen, though? Unless we hit lucky this summer and get something like £50m for Trippier, Miggy and Wilson for example, there's going to either be the same next June, or a heavy hitter leaving. 

[TRon]

1 hour ago, The Prophet said:

 

Had a quick look in the thread from last summer. Can find hardly any comments suggesting he was a definite left winger, but plenty suggesting he could play a verity of positions.

 

 

Hadn't he already played half a season on the LW for us by the time we signed Barnes?

 

 

[Kanji]

32 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

Hadn't he already played half a season on the LW for us by the time we signed Barnes?

 

 

 

Read my post above, he technically played more at RW than LW, but it was basically 50/50. 

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, Kanji said:

 

Read my post above, he technically played more at RW than LW, but it was basically 50/50. 

 

No idea where the idea came from that he was solely a left winger.

 

He's always played all over the place.

[Kanji]

7 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

No idea where the idea came from that he was solely a left winger.

 

He's always played all over the place.

 

Exactly, it just so happened that he never looked back once he took on Villa at home. 

[80]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

The others you named have all contributed significantly on the pitch. 
 

My overall point is we’ve paid a premium last summer for a number of players and nobody made a massive impact. The window and other decisions hasn’t been deemed a success and the club have pivoted strategy as a result. 
 

I don’t think we have room for substantial losses. Our squad cost has increased and it carries year on year.  Our revenues need to increase. And that includes selling more players.  

Right, but we're past talking about on pitch contributions. I don't especially disagree on that:

 

Tonali to date, objectively speaking, is one of the worst signings in footballing history.

 

Barnes we pretty much agree on.

 

Livramento, I think you could argue covered his own wages through the league positioning prize and such. If we hadn't had him our availability crisis would've been even worse, and morale lower.

 

Minteh never came on but paid for himself in spades.

 

We started off talking about there maybe being sense in trying to snatch perceived good deals to raise the future tradability of the squad even if they weren't the most highly required players. The irony is that the most highly priced, widely respected, conventionally necessary signing was the biggest let down by a distance - the one where we didn't think we were getting a distressed sale. Superficially, it's the kind of signing we'd now expect to make following the latest pivot towards team changing talents. This actually makes pursuing value deals more defensible.

 

Re: substantial losses, yes I'm aware. When I say we can make them, I don't mean we can just lay out £100m. But we can absorb the ongoing amortization - which is seeing us hemorrhage substantial amounts - and wages, and still invest. We're not requiring a profit this year, just a measured loss.

 

But yeah, no top 4 next year and there's a good chance lots of our toys will be taken to cash converters. But at least we'll actually have something to pawn.

 

 

Edited July 23 by 80

[80]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

Recent quotes?

No, unfortunately. Believe that's from the same interview where he was bigging up Mitchell and Bunce as top class, but just not necessarily right for him.