Eddie Howe

[Erikse]

We used to have our left back function as a 3rd centreback when attacking, but with a more attacking minded left back (which I think is a necessary evolution of tactics), the lack of a pure defensive midfielder is more apparent. Trying to find a new centreback to play as a left back is not a long term solution imo. It doesn't give us a good balance when attacking.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Hall could also play inside instead of overlapping mind, he has the ability to do it. 

[J7]

17 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

It was that we've been absolutely shite for a year and are honking, but if you think that's the same thing, fair enough I suppose.

Like I said, I think it’s a bit over the top, but we’re only 5 points better off than skint Everton over 38 games, have had dreadful away form being explained away as needing the crowd behind the team and have failed in the crunch matches like Milan at home and Man Utd away. We’ve got numerous players now we’ve spent £40m plus on and have spent hundreds of millions. Cup performances have gone back to what we saw in yesteryear. Blackburn and Wimbledon were very poor performances and we went out to City without making it a game. 

[Mikky]

7 minutes ago, Erikse said:

We used to have our left back function as a 3rd centreback when attacking, but with a more attacking minded left back (which I think is a necessary evolution of tactics), the lack of a pure defensive midfielder is more apparent. Trying to find a new centreback to play as a left back is not a long term solution imo. It doesn't give us a good balance when attacking.

With 2 natural attacking full backs, you can’t play a flat 3 in midfield, especially when both your centre backs are slow, it leaves you defensively exposed - you should then really compensate that by playing 2 in the pivot - giving your 2 CBs protection allowing 1 fullback at least to always roam with the other inverting if needed or keeping position - its a huge tactical floor as we seem to have no flow within the team 

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Holmesy said:

There was a definite discernible pattern in the season where Miggy was on fire. Those little intricate moves around the box, dinked balls over the top, overlaps etc. were definitely orchestrated. Once that well ran out though, it's been difficult to identify anything that resembles a planned move

IMO that was the players doing. Finding their own patterns. when the personnel changes we stop doing it or something really discernible.  
 

Our 8 push high and wide when we get the ball and we try and play the ball in those pockets. 

We often looked bereft of ideas going forward.  

 

[Lush Vlad]

Sort of combining various thoughts and comments from other threads.  But the midfield 3 really doesn't work and I don't even think it is down to personnel now, or last season when I thought it was more because of injuries and fatigue.  We are just dead easy to play against and teams find space against us for fun. 

 

I don't think any of the midfield are immobile, even Bruno gets about despite being slow.  But out of possession, we often look a yard slower and teams pass round us with ease.  Seems like our lads are chasing shadows and the passing patterns other teams deploy against us sees the midfield 3 just doing doggies and chasing shadows.  Like if you've ever played CM against a player or team that are clearly better than your level.  You always feel a yard off it and like you can't quite get to the ball or man in time.  I just don't believe that so many midfielders are so much better than our 3.  So surely it is a system issue?

 

In possession, it is pretty tragic.  Tonali and Joelinton get so wide or run off up the pitch and then effectively mark themselves out the game.  We occasionally stumble on some sexy passing moves.  But it always feels like it is off the cuff and not because of a discernible style of play.  Our build up from the back to the midfield is still just 'give it to Bruno.  If he really is being marked too tightly, pass it along the back for ages and then boom it long and see if we can get in behind or win the second ball.'  It was evident how bad this was yesterday, as Schar had a dreadful game and his long passing was off.  Hall's wasn't quite up to scratch, either.  

 

Also, we used to be a nightmare team to play against.  I think teams probably dreaded our shithousery, physicality and style.  But it does feel like we have been worked out and of course, gone a bit stale.  Not gone backwards, as such.  But stood still, not refreshed the squad and I suppose at this level.  Others overtake you and you have in fact gone backwards.  

 

The set pieces are atrocious and have been for a while.  I know there obviously is planning that goes into them, but it doesn't look like it.  It just seems like for corners, it is an inswinger aimed around the penalty spot or back post.  That's it.  Free kicks from anywhere near the halfway line.  Clip a diagonal and hope one of the CB's wins a flick on.  It's pretty basic, boring stuff.  Not sure what metric you would use.  But they must be up there (down there) with the worst in the league?! 

 

The Joelinton/Willock link up on the left was a minor positive from the game for the short time we saw it and worked quite well.  But that will only happen when Gordon isn't available.  Despite all my moaning.  I do feel like with some better individual decision making and finishing.  Along with cutting out some individual and collective errors, we could have got quite easily got 7 points from our last 3 games instead of 1 and the complaints would be a lot fewer in number.  The performances have been slowly going the right way in some ways and it has been fine margins that have cost us points.  Not being totally outplayed or outclassed for 90 minutes.  

 

TL;DR - Squad has gone a bit stale.  Teams have figured us out.  Individual fuck ups the last few games have cost us just as much as the balance of the side.  I think Howe needs to change the midfield set up.  I think he is more than capable of doing so based on how detailed he is and he could tinker and come up with a more balanced side.  But perhaps, and this is a total guess.  He is stubborn and has a approach similar to Klopp regarding his plan A.  Something like 'if plan A isn't working.  Then we need to work harder' or words to that effect. 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Lush Vlad

[janpawel]

Man City even with Rodri, still have someone support him in the middle, whether John Stones, Rico Lewis or a CM dropping in etc, it usually isn't just Rodri there left to defend that space all by himself, though when he is left to it, he is a lot quicker/stronger/taller than our Bruno 

 

Man City were even in for Declan Rice, now imagine a midfield 3 of Rodri/Rice and Silva/De Bruyne etc 

 

I guess my point is that even the best teams still value defensive stability and having someone in midfield who can do this

 

Bruno is our best DM, AM, best everything until Tonali shows me otherwise imo. Howe clearly rates his ability to beat the press and dictate our play more than anything 

 

I'll probably get pelters for this as not many rate him, but I reckon Amadou Onana would have been great for us he's young with great potential. With Bruno as an 8, he could drop deep to support and help build up our play, then has more freedom in the final third when we have possession in their half. Would make the most of his abilities and he'd have someone huge and athletic to help him against counters 

 

 

[janpawel]

@brummieHow has Onana been for you guys? 

[Holmesy]

29 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

IMO that was the players doing. Finding their own patterns. when the personnel changes we stop doing it or something really discernible.  
 

Our 8 push high and wide when we get the ball and we try and play the ball in those pockets. 

We often looked bereft of ideas going forward.  

 

If that is the case then fair play to them. That Trippier/Miggy partnership was one of the highlights of EH's reign - such great movement

[Holmesy]

14 minutes ago, janpawel said:

Man City even with Rodri, still have someone support him in the middle, whether John Stones, Rico Lewis or a CM dropping in etc, it usually isn't just Rodri there left to defend that space all by himself, though when he is left to it, he is a lot quicker/stronger/taller than our Bruno 

 

Man City were even in for Declan Rice, now imagine a midfield 3 of Rodri/Rice and Silva/De Bruyne etc 

 

I guess my point is that even the best teams still value defensive stability and having someone in midfield who can do this

 

Bruno is our best DM, AM, best everything until Tonali shows me otherwise imo. Howe clearly rates his ability to beat the press and dictate our play more than anything 

 

I'll probably get pelters for this as not many rate him, but I reckon Amadou Onana would have been great for us he's young with great potential. With Bruno as an 8, he could drop deep to support and help build up our play, then has more freedom in the final third when we have possession in their half. Would make the most of his abilities and he'd have someone huge and athletic to help him against counters 

 

 

Man City are so precise with their passing that they can afford to be a bit more high-risk because they ultimately have less defending to do. They also win the ball back quickly or commit cynical fouls in good positions to negate counter-attacks.

We lose the ball so often, and our players aren't quick enough to commit cynical fouls so we need defensive cover more than most.

I actually agree with you on Onana. I had no idea how good he was until I saw him play for Villa

[Memphis]

I wanted us to use Guehi as a Stones-esque CB/6, I think he's got the perfect profile to do that. We desperately need a platform to build from that isn't Bruno. He needs to be able to get more forward and make incisive passes into the final third. 

[Nine]

1 minute ago, Memphis said:

I wanted us to use Guehi as a Stones-esque CB/6, I think he's got the perfect profile to do that. We desperately need a platform to build from that isn't Bruno. He needs to be able to get more forward and make incisive passes into the final third. 

I totally agree with this and it’s why that signing was so important, however we should have had a back up plan that wasn’t a desperate bid for Elanga 

[nufc4eva]

The only other team to play 433 this weekend was spurs. Other teams mostly seem to play a 4231 now with a few 442 (Arsenal/Brighton) and 352 for palace, Man city play 4141 but have the players to do that.

 

Generally think we need to go 442 or 4231 to try and gain more control and link up midfield to attack, as a stop gap put Joelinton, Gordon or Tonali in that attacking mid role, get 2 players to sit deeper and at least try something different. Would give Hall/Livramento more room to attack as well. 

 

[janpawel]

24 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Man City are so precise with their passing that they can afford to be a bit more high-risk because they ultimately have less defending to do. They also win the ball back quickly or commit cynical fouls in good positions to negate counter-attacks.

We lose the ball so often, and our players aren't quick enough to commit cynical fouls so we need defensive cover more than most.

I actually agree with you on Onana. I had no idea how good he was until I saw him play for Villa

Absolutely 

 

And in turn, I think this is the weakest Man City have been for a good fear years, and I thought this even before Rodri did his ACL. A lot of their midfielders are getting older / slower 

 

No wonder they wanted Rice, Bruno etc 

[DiddyLevine]

18 minutes ago, nufc4eva said:

The only other team to play 433 this weekend was spurs. Other teams mostly seem to play a 4231 now with a few 442 (Arsenal/Brighton) and 352 for palace, Man city play 4141 but have the players to do that.

 

Generally think we need to go 442 or 4231 to try and gain more control and link up midfield to attack, as a stop gap put Joelinton, Gordon or Tonali in that attacking mid role, get 2 players to sit deeper and at least try something different. Would give Hall/Livramento more room to attack as well. 

 

4 3 3 is athletics not football

[80]

6 hours ago, SUPERTOON said:

With how long the club takes to do things, we may want to start interviewing now then if we want a replacement in by summer 

Realistically, yep.

[andycap]

Mitchell should be bringing in players to fix the weaknesses in the squad whether that be young players or ready made players. 

So a right winger centre half with pace. A new striker that offers more than isak. 

Take howe out of the equation as Mitchell is there for the long term philosophy of the way we wanna be run. 

[Kanji]

Barnes needs to reinvent himself as a RW. 

[timeEd32]

Just read this in an article about baseball, but it feels very appropriate after yesterday: players’ physical failures are easier to forgive than managers’ unforced mental missteps.