Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

20 hours ago, Lotus said:

It seems in times gone by managers would have the odd bad season here and there but would be trusted to put it right if they’d been seen to do it before. 
Now it seems a tricky run of results and the knives start sharpening. 
I've been guilty of wondering if EH has run out of ideas but (I think) I kept them to myself and talked myself into being patient. He’s had sticky patches before and turned it around. He’ll have more in the future I’m sure and I reckon he’ll probably turn those around too.

If Pep can have a rough patch anyone can.

Nothing wrong with a bit of scepticism.  I remember you mentioned Marco Silva as a potential candidate- I didn’t buy it at first but I’ve been very impressed with how he’s developed Fulham over the years. He’s shown growth from the Everton days.  And Howe is showing growth here. You always wanted to give Howe a proper chance.  
 

Seen this on Twitter: 

 

im not usually one to believe in ‘master plans’ but this was always a concern. Howe’s rejigged the build up to limit the impact of this. Which might have needed some time to prepare. 

[nufcjmc]

3 hours ago, Pearljam10 said:

When is the press conference pre Man Utd? 

Craig no hope confirmed there isn't one

[Smal]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Nothing wrong with a bit of scepticism.  I remember you mentioned Marco Silva as a potential candidate- I didn’t buy it at first but I’ve been very impressed with how he’s developed Fulham over the years. He’s shown growth from the Everton days.  And Howe is showing growth here. You always wanted to give Howe a proper chance.  
 

Seen this on Twitter: 

 

im not usually one to believe in ‘master plans’ but this was always a concern. Howe’s rejigged the build up to limit the impact of this. Which might have needed some time to prepare. 

 

I had doubts about Sandro’s ability to play 6 due to this, but I don’t think the above data says anything seeing as it will be taken mostly from him playing as a high 8.

 

Need to see this data again once he’s had a big enough sample playing as a 6.

[The College Dropout]

Agree. 
 

And he does need to learn when to slow it down. It’s always quick quick quick with him.  
 

But our build up now is less predictable as Bruno does still come deep at times to help.  

[Ikon]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Agree. 
 

And he does need to learn when to slow it down. It’s always quick quick quick with him.  
 

But our build up now is less predictable as Bruno does still come deep at times to help.  

It’s definitely not always quick quick quick. You’re basing this on a few quick ones where we lost possession. He often slows its down and keeps it slow/basic too. Also I prefer him to do the quick ones at times as it helps us massively when he pulls them off. Against ManU a few of them didn’t come off but it’s not like it happens as often as in the first half. I prefer him this way than someone like Ugarte who only passes it safe and slowly sideways and backwards more often than not in the games I’ve seen for Sporting/PSG/ManU. 

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Ikon said:

It’s definitely not always quick quick quick. You’re basing this on a few quick ones where we lost possession. He often slows its down and keeps it slow/basic too. Also I prefer him to do the quick ones at times as it helps us massively when he pulls them off. Against ManU a few of them didn’t come off but it’s not like it happens as often as in the first half. I prefer him this way than someone like Ugarte who only passes it safe and slowly sideways and backwards more often than not in the games I’ve seen for Sporting/PSG/ManU. 

Tonali is a good player no doubt. 
 

However one of his biggest weaknesses is that he loses the ball more often than the elite. He’s done this throughout his career. Seeing more of him - part of that relatively low pass % is playing a bit too fast for his team mates. Some of that is chemistry but the low pass completion was there at Milan.  The best 6s are usually press resistant. And retain the ball under pressure with dribbles and passing. Bruno fits that bill. 
 

But our overall style is so dynamic the strengths Tonali brings the team negate the weaknesses and I think Howe has adapted tactically to cover for him a bit. The old midfield balance was exposing Bruno’s athletic weaknesses and not maximising Tonali’s athletic gifts.  This system gets more out of both of them and gives the whole team more. 
 

And it may not be a major problem. Casemiro is on that list (although higher at a later stage in his career) and he’s won lots of trophies playing at the 6.  Toni Kroos would often drop in alongside Casemiro or just swap positions at times if Casemiro was getting pressed out of a game in build up. Casemiro’s good going forward in a different way to Kroos which would give opposition different issues to deal with. Thats what Bruno has been doing at times with Tonali. Long may it continue.  
 

Funnily enough - like Bruno - Kroos couldn’t run much either. 

[Ikon]

Well personally I prefer a player that both can and will make more difficult and progressive passes at times. Even if it means that his percentage is less than “normal” 6’s that are elite. Imo Tonali is elite or soon to be if not already. I’m sure he will get more used to his role and his team mates with time as well. Good enough to dominate against France is elite imo. Also, he’s only 24 years old. 
 

Saying that he always plays it quick quick quick is totally wrong. 

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Ikon

[Lotus]

5 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Nothing wrong with a bit of scepticism.  I remember you mentioned Marco Silva as a potential candidate- I didn’t buy it at first but I’ve been very impressed with how he’s developed Fulham over the years. He’s shown growth from the Everton days.  And Howe is showing growth here. You always wanted to give Howe a proper chance.  
 

Seen this on Twitter: 

 

im not usually one to believe in ‘master plans’ but this was always a concern. Howe’s rejigged the build up to limit the impact of this. Which might have needed some time to prepare. 

Yes, been a fan of Marco Silva for quite a while. I think he’ll have a chance at a bigger club soon enough. Might Spurs the way things are going….Theres something off with Spurs though. Don’t know what it is but something is amiss in the overall makeup of the club.

Anyway, Silva has got a squad punching above its weight. Don’t know if he’s the kind of character that can handle a dressing room of big stars, he’d need that chance. He can make average players over perform though and he looks like he knows how to blend players into an effective team. 

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Ikon said:

Well personally I prefer a player that both can and will make more difficult and progressive passes at times. Even if it means that his percentage is less than “normal” 6’s that are elite. Imo Tonali is elite or soon to be if not already. I’m sure he will get more used to his role and his team mates with time as well. Good enough to dominate against France is elite imo. Also, he’s only 24 years old. 
 

Saying that he always plays it quick quick quick is totally wrong. 

 

 

 

His passing isn’t as accurate or progressive as Bruno. And so far he’s not as press resistant as an aging Casemiro and obviously Bruno.  ditto Moises Caicedo - he has it all - athletic, press resistant, progressive passer. Tonali doesn’t have it all as a 6 - which is why he had not previously played as a sole 6. Im giving Howe credit to say - his changed the teams tactics to make Tonali work as a 6 as it’s not a simple swap. Bruno can do vital parts of that role that Tonali can’t as effectively. And obviously Tonali can do parts of the role more effectively than Bruno.  

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, Lotus said:

Yes, been a fan of Marco Silva for quite a while. I think he’ll have a chance at a bigger club soon enough. Might Spurs the way things are going….Theres something off with Spurs though. Don’t know what it is but something is amiss in the overall makeup of the club.

Anyway, Silva has got a squad punching above its weight. Don’t know if he’s the kind of character that can handle a dressing room of big stars, he’d need that chance. He can make average players over perform though and he looks like he knows how to blend players into an effective team. 

Levy is a cheap git. He’s spending lots of money now but on kids he can pay poorly.  But Ange is a lunatic.  He needs better players than he will ever get at spurs to succeed. 
 

Yeh been impressed with Fulham and Silva this season.  Lost his best players last season too and not skipped a beat (Mitro and Paulinha). 

[Kanj]

Setting the stasticial analysis aside, if this is the standard Tonali brings us going forward at a minimum, and he has age on his side to improve, I shudder to think how fucking good he could be. 

 

I do not care about the quick passing, I love it. I want more of it. He’s now commanding the ball and integral to how we play and long may it continue. 

[Ikon]

37 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

His passing isn’t as accurate or progressive as Bruno. And so far he’s not as press resistant as an aging Casemiro and obviously Bruno.  ditto Moises Caicedo - he has it all - athletic, press resistant, progressive passer. Tonali doesn’t have it all as a 6 - which is why he had not previously played as a sole 6. Im giving Howe credit to say - his changed the teams tactics to make Tonali work as a 6 as it’s not a simple swap. Bruno can do vital parts of that role that Tonali can’t as effectively. And obviously Tonali can do parts of the role more effectively than Bruno.  

He’s also not as tall as Burn. 

[Kanj]

I just find the actual criticism TCD is making is like telling a great a chef that he could have seasoned the steak better. Like criticism for the sake of it when there doesn’t really need to be that.  No player is perfect. All players make mistakes. I’d rather an attempt to play the ball forward or quickly (with my eye, which I’ve seen every match he’s played as a starter) with some proper intent than hesitation or lack of cutting someone open. 

[KaKa]

52 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

His passing isn’t as accurate or progressive as Bruno. And so far he’s not as press resistant as an aging Casemiro and obviously Bruno.  ditto Moises Caicedo - he has it all - athletic, press resistant, progressive passer. Tonali doesn’t have it all as a 6 - which is why he had not previously played as a sole 6. Im giving Howe credit to say - his changed the teams tactics to make Tonali work as a 6 as it’s not a simple swap. Bruno can do vital parts of that role that Tonali can’t as effectively. And obviously Tonali can do parts of the role more effectively than Bruno.  

 

Tonali came through at Brescia playing at the base of midfield as the lone 6.

 

https://breakingthelines.com/scouting-report/scouting-report-sandro-tonali/

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

14 minutes ago, Kanj said:

Like criticism for the sake of it when there doesn’t really need to be that. 

Im sorry but that just doesn’t sound like TCD at all. 

[KaKa]

35 minutes ago, Kanj said:

I just find the actual criticism TCD is making is like telling a great a chef that he could have seasoned the steak better. Like criticism for the sake of it when there doesn’t really need to be that.  No player is perfect. All players make mistakes. I’d rather an attempt to play the ball forward or quickly (with my eye, which I’ve seen every match he’s played as a starter) with some proper intent than hesitation or lack of cutting someone open. 

 

If anything Tonali playing at the base of midfield and initiating play appears to be a return to his roots. That's the role he played at Brescia.

 

As both you and Ikon have said he is quite aggressive with his passing from that position though, and similarly I too prefer that, as we have speedy forward players that can exploit spaces when they get the ball quicker.

 

 

[Rod]

1 hour ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Im sorry but that just doesn’t sound like TCD at all. 

I have a mate like TCD.  He can twist on 21.

[PauloGeordio]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

If anything Tonali playing at the base of midfield and initiating play appears to be a return to his roots. That's the role he played at Brescia.

 

As both you and Ikon have said he is quite aggressive with his passing from that position though, and similarly I too prefer that, as we have speedy forward players that can exploit spaces when they get the ball quicker.

 

 

I like our quick turnovers. Get Botman back in the mix (no disrespect to BDB) who’s been brilliant, and we’ll be even more clinical out from the back.

[The College Dropout]

It’s not a criticism of Tonali. When it was first discussed about moving Tonali to 6 - that was one of the main reasons people thought it had not been tried. I do think Howe has those reservations too. If he didn’t have those reservations, I struggle to think why it took him so long to play Tonali there.  Bruno has played with us as a 8 already so i don’t think that is the reason.  And Bruno was struggling badly to cover the ground in the middle.  
 

Im giving Howe - in the Howe thread - credit for moving Tonali to 6 and changing our build up play patterns so it’s less dependent on the primary 6 for ball progression.  Because the new primary 6 is much more likely to lose the ball in dangerous positions than the old one.  That’s great coaching. 
 

People get so sensitive about their favourite players. Tonali’s passing can be loose.  It’s not a criticism - it’s a fact. We knew this when we signed him and we’ve seen it for us. The sending off stems from a poor Tonali pass straight to Villa in an attacking RCM position under no real pressure, he could’ve taken a touch. He’ll do that a few times a game and you want it further away from goal.  
 

it’s a valid reason not to thrust him in at 6 without some tactical changes.  Credit to Howe and Tonali, they’ve made it work.  Tonali is a monster.   
 

4 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Tonali came through at Brescia playing at the base of midfield as the lone 6.

 

https://breakingthelines.com/scouting-report/scouting-report-sandro-tonali/

Ok so he played as a lone 6 in Serie B, I dread to think how slow that league is. No surprise Tonali looked like Pirlo and Steven Gerrard in that league. 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by The College Dropout

[KaKa]

12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Ok so he played as a lone 6 in Serie B, I dread to think how slow that league is. No surprise Tonali looked like Pirlo and Steven Gerrard in that league. 

 

 

 

 

No, the 2019-20 season at Brescia was in Serie A.

 

After he had got them promoted starting as an 18 year old in Series B the previous year.

[The College Dropout]

Ok fairs. I still think there was good reason not to rush him in at 6. His lack of ball security needed to be mitigated in build-up on the training ground and Howe did that.  
 

[Kanj]

Right. I know you’re a supporter now. But the idea that you need to randomly post some % pass differential table is the point I’m trying to make. What exactly does that prove outside of he, like every other footballer loses the ball or doesn’t have a 10/10 performance every match. Hes hardly perfect as much as our elite striker who somehow can’t score a 1 v 1. It’s football it’s sport. The best make mistakes too. I’m not even sure I’ve seen us have a footballer who plays as good first time balls in build up since 95/96. 
 

this ain’t me trying to call you out, I love your posts these days and think they are great analysis. Just think this Tonali thing is done and dusted. Boy is on the rise! 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Kanj

[The College Dropout]

22 minutes ago, Kanj said:

Right. I know you’re a supporter now. But the idea that you need to randomly post some % pass differential table is the point I’m trying to make. What exactly does that prove outside of he, like every other footballer loses the ball or doesn’t have a 10/10 performance every match. Hes hardly perfect as much as our elite striker who somehow can’t score a 1 v 1. It’s football it’s sport. The best make mistakes too. I’m not even sure I’ve seen us have a footballer who plays as good first time balls in build up since 95/96. 
 

this ain’t me trying to call you out, I love your posts these days and think they are great analysis. Just think this Tonali thing is done and dusted. Boy is on the rise! 

 

 

 

Why are you so offended?

 

it’s a football forum. I’m talking about football. 
 

I’ve stated the point several times.  People discussed moving Tonali to 6 - months ago. I thought and I think Howe thought he was too loose with the ball to play there to the level required the way we were setup. Everything came through Bruno.  Even with being man marked Bruno could dribble himself out of trouble or win a foul.  Tonali doesn’t have that press resistance and is looser with his passing - a danger in deep areas. 
 

Howe has changed the setup to accommodate Tonali at 6.  I think that delay was making sure the setup worked and players knew what to do.  
 

I’ve said this a bunch of times. You seem hung up that I’m raising a weakness of your favourite player. It’s not even a criticism.  It’s like pointing out Schar and Burn are super slow so we’ve played a little deeper and less aggressive this year. And being upset that I’ve called the boys slow. They are. It’s not a criticism.  

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by The College Dropout

[Kanj]

4 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Why are you so offended?

 

it’s a football forum. I’m talking about football. 
 

I’ve stated the point several times.  People discussed moving Tonali to 6 - months ago. I thought and I think Howe thought he was too loose with the ball to play there to the level required the way we were setup. Everything came through Bruno.  Even with being man marked Bruno could dribble himself out of trouble or win a foul.  Tonali doesn’t have that press resistance and is looser with his passing - a danger in deep areas. 
 

Howe has changed the setup to accommodate Tonali at 6.  I think that delay was making sure the setup worked and players knew what to do.  
 

I’ve said this a bunch of times. You seem hung up that I’m raising a weakness of your favourite player. It’s not even a criticism.  It’s like pointing out Schar and Burn are super slow so we’ve played a little deeper and less aggressive this year. And being upset that I’ve called the boys slow. They are. It’s not a criticism.  

 

 

 

I’m not offended at all.

[Ikon]

I’m out