Eddie Howe

[Andy]

56 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

These are the clubs we are competing with for a Champions League spot though, which is why we they are being compared.

 

 

 

If you're comparing to Forest, every club apart from Liverpool is failing as they're challenging for second place. 

 

Bournemouth have gone on a great run similar to what Palace did towards the end of last season. If they maintain it all the way through, fair play. Brighton beat us yesterday but have spent more time around midtable this season than the CL positions. 

[SUPERTOON]

Definitely feels for me that we have stagnated on and off the pitch over the last year. Big summer ahead where we can hopefully pick back up.

[Infinitely Content]

55 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Can he coach a side that can win consistently without a high press? 

It's a good and important question. He appears to have attempted to move beyond the high pressing style, often abandoning it entirely (at least to my untrained eye), yielding at best inconsistent results.

What is clear to me is that the wild fluctuations in both levels of performance and results isn't going to be good enough, he needs to find a way to raise and level out the valleys within our form to begin to build consistency and identity, even if it means the mountains, those being the 7-8 game winning streaks are replaced with a few draws interspersed within.

I'm sometimes not entirely sure what we're trying to do anymore on the pitch. I think he deserves the entirety of next season at least to see if he can make that transition into winning more consistently without the reliance on the high press. I would personally prefer him to revert to the high press - I found it very entertaining to watch - but it's perhaps been deemed unsustainable internally.

[Matt1892]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

 

If you're comparing to Forest, every club apart from Liverpool is failing as they're challenging for second place. 

 

Bournemouth have gone on a great run similar to what Palace did towards the end of last season. If they maintain it all the way through, fair play. Brighton beat us yesterday but have spent more time around midtable this season than the CL positions. 

The comparison will come at the end of the season with these clubs, but if we fail to qualify for the Champions League when it potentially falls to a 5th place team and both Man Utd and Spurs have imploded, and instead one of the above enters the competition instead, then that is a failure to capitalise on our part and that sits with the manager.

[Matt1892]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Net spend is a shit metric. 
 

Wages and squad cost more important. 
 

Brighton rank well at both.  But Brighton aren’t consistently competitive and have sharpened their approach over what 15 years? 20? We are in year 4 of this thing. 

 

It isn’t a shit metric, it shows the resources that we have had compared to those other clubs along with wages and squad cost, which we blow all of those clubs out of the water with too.

 

 

[mighty__mag]

2 hours ago, Lush Vlad said:

He should be backed properly in the summer and then we will find out. 
 

Unless there is some monumental drop off now and no European competition whatsoever. He has earned that at least. 
 

I learned my lesson after severely doubting him after the Brentford defeat. I think we’ll regain some level of form and by all accounts. We will spend a decent amount in the transfer window. 

 

I personally don't think he'll be influential in who comes in, I'd argue if it was core English players he might have an opinion, eg; Guehi or Dibling, even Tavanier.

But if its Akliouche or names on a list we've hardly heard mentioned then it's the club deciding the direction we're going, he's (Howe) going to have to get the best out of them and use them, one thing that will stand out, if a star player comes in who the club have chosen and Eddie still wants to play Murphy or Longstaff, Burn etc. Then his days will be numbered. I don't think the club will spend big money on names and watch him leave them on the bench.

 

 

 

[The Prophet]

3 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

The comparison will come at the end of the season with these clubs, but if we fail to qualify for the Champions League when it potentially falls to a 5th place team and both Man Utd and Spurs have imploded, and instead one of the above enters the competition instead, then that is a failure to capitalise on our part and that sits with the manager.

 

If our session fizzles out, I'm sure he'll take some responsibility, but it's a bit simplistic to put it all on Howe.

[Gallowgate Toon]

My main concern for Howe is that I think expectations will be high as we WILL have a busy summer, but my feeling is that we'll be bringing more development talent in rather than ready-made players to immediately kick us on. We've got some big gaps to fill with a still-limited budget.

[Matt1892]

Just now, The Prophet said:

 

If our session fizzles out, I'm sure he'll take some responsibility, but it's a bit simplistic to put it all on Howe.

Ultimately, he is the manager and it is his job to deliver.

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, mighty__mag said:

 

I personally don't think he'll be influential in who comes in, I'd argue if it was core English players he might have an opinion, eg; Guehi or Dibling, even Tavanier.

But if its Akliouche or names on a list we've hardly heard mentioned then it's the club deciding the direction we're going, he's (Howe) going to have to get the best out of them and use them, one thing that will stand out, if a star player comes in who the club have chosen and Eddie still wants to play Murphy or Longstaff, Burn etc. Then his days will be numbered. I don't think the club will spend big money on names and watch him leave them on the bench.

 

 

 

 

He's done exactly that with both Tonali and Isak.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, Matt1892 said:

Ultimately, he is the manager and it is his job to deliver.

 

I'm grateful we have owners who don't have such linear thinking.

[Matt1892]

Just now, The Prophet said:

 

I'm grateful we have owners who don't have such linear thinking.

The decision for them retaining the manager will be based on performances.

[The Prophet]

Just now, Matt1892 said:

The decision for them retaining the manager will be based on performances.

 

It will, taking consideration of all relevant factors that could impact that. Such as not upgrading the squad for three transfer windows.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

12 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

Ultimately, he is the manager and it is his job to deliver.

That’s meaningless. Deliver what? And in what circumstances? 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by AyeDubbleYoo

[Matt1892]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

That’s meaningless. Deliver what? And in what circumstances? 

 

 

 

Performances and points.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

16 minutes ago, mighty__mag said:

 

I personally don't think he'll be influential in who comes in, I'd argue if it was core English players he might have an opinion, eg; Guehi or Dibling, even Tavanier.

But if its Akliouche or names on a list we've hardly heard mentioned then it's the club deciding the direction we're going, he's (Howe) going to have to get the best out of them and use them, one thing that will stand out, if a star player comes in who the club have chosen and Eddie still wants to play Murphy or Longstaff, Burn etc. Then his days will be numbered. I don't think the club will spend big money on names and watch him leave them on the bench.

 

 

 

Why would he leave them on the bench if they’re a star player?

[Andy]

21 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

 

It isn’t a shit metric, it shows the resources that we have had compared to those other clubs along with wages and squad cost, which we blow all of those clubs out of the water with too.

 

 

 

The squad should be judged on its quality for the purpose of comparison to the teams we're competing with, not its net cost. The manager is working with the players on a match day, not the balance sheet, and I doubt he was solely responsible for the majority of our signings (or lack thereof, in recent windows).

 

On paper, are we really that much better than Bournemouth and Forest? Our best players are probably better, but our squad players are probably worse, certainly the ageing ones. I'd definitely trade a chunk of our players with theirs. 

 

Bournemouth and Forest are doing well this season, but can they maintain it and would their managers do any better than Howe with this particular set of players? I'm not convinced. Momentum is huge in football and they have it in abundance like we did in 2022/23 and like Villa did last season. Once the sheen wears off they'll both start to drop.

 

If they maintain momentum until the end of the season and finish above us, it isn't representative of a failure Howe's part IMO. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think if you had to build a team of us and Forest or us and Bournemouth, both would be about 50/50. Our stars are better but people like Murphy, Schar, maybe even Burn probably wouldn’t make the team. 

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

The squad should be judged on its quality for the purpose of comparison to the teams we're competing with, not its net cost. The manager is working with the players on a match day, not the balance sheet, and I doubt he was solely responsible for the majority of our signings (or lack thereof, in recent windows).

 

On paper, are we really that much better than Bournemouth and Forest? Our best players are probably better, but our squad players are probably worse, certainly the ageing ones. I'd definitely trade a chunk of our players with theirs. 

 

Bournemouth and Forest are doing well this season, but can they maintain it and would their managers do any better than Howe with this particular set of players? I'm not convinced. Momentum is huge in football and they have it in abundance like we did in 2022/23 and like Villa did last season. Once the sheen wears off they'll both start to drop.

 

If they maintain momentum until the end of the season and finish above us, it isn't representative of a failure Howe's part IMO. 

 

I would like to think our players and squad are better than Bournemouth and Forest. If they aren't then something has gone wrong with the recruitment during Eddie's time here, and he would have to take some responsibility since he had a big say in who was coming in.

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by TRon

[Nine]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Can he coach a side that can win consistently without a high press? 

We’ll know the answer next year.

 

One criticism that is justified is that we were not ready to move away from the press as quickly as we did, but the injuries of last season may have forced Howes hand in that respect. 
 

Now we are down to watching Schar and Burn try and play out from the back, well mainly Burn as Schar gets pressed first. 

[Matt1892]

8 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I think if you had to build a team of us and Forest or us and Bournemouth, both would be about 50/50. Our stars are better but people like Murphy, Schar, maybe even Burn probably wouldn’t make the team. 

How many Forest players would you put in our starting 11?

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

How many Forest players would you put in our starting 11?

Based on this season ? At least 5 probably.

[Yorkie]

Murillo, Aina and Elanga all come straight in. Anderson features in every game too.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, Yorkie said:

Murillo, Aina and Elanga all come straight in. Anderson features in every game too.

MGW and Milenkovic based on this season also.

[Andy]

16 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I would like to think our players and squad are better than Bournemouth and Forest. If they aren't then something has gone wrong with the recruitment during Eddie's time here, and he would have to take some responsibility since he had a big say in who was coming in.

 

 

 

 

Our recruitment has gone stale due to PSR, it's clear there are still huge holes in the squad, and the holes are only getting wider as some players age and others completely lose form. It isn't that the players we've signed haven't been good, it's that the job is half done.

 

We have one right winger who is only good in patches. Two goalkeepers who are on the decline. Two centre halves who are on the decline. A back up right back who is now finished. A back up striker who is now finished. A back up left back who is on the decline. Back up midfielders who've either lost confidence or are 18 years old. These players are all being relied on regularly. 

 

Almost all of these players alluded to above were here under Bruce. The ones who weren't, were good temporary acquisitions (Pope, Burn, Trippier), but now need replacing. 

 

Howe has made mistakes this season and has a job on his hands to get the best out of what he's got, but the source of our problems goes back to the inability to strengthen further, which ultimately goes even further back to the years of neglect that left us with no saleable assets.