Eddie Howe

[timeEd32]

8 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Never said CL form. Some decent football or a little winning run would be nice. And again, it's this month or not at all, as tron has pointed out, we've got a load of tough away games coming up. An identity. An execution of a plan. Maybe even a backup plan. Making decent subs at the right time. Stop throwing away points. Control a game. Stoop shitting the bed when we take a lead. Stop playing the same players who are letting him down game after game. It's not a high bar. Certainly not entitled or deluded. It feels directionless (and maybe he's got sick of picking up the slack the mess the club has made in the boardroom and that is now impacting what he does, even his energy levels) Yet this month coming up can go a long way to correct all that, and that's all I'm saying with now or never. If it's not this month, this season fades fast. Then I feel it'll be kicking he can down the road for a mutual departure in the summer.

 

We're easily the most underperforming team in the league this season. You could argue wolves, even they should have a few wins (probably 1st against us no doubt) but we are poor by the standards you'd associate with us, and especially Howe. 

 

 

We’re literally 2 points off 7th halfway through the season for everyone who is obsessed with us being equal to or better than our revenue / spending at all times.

 

A PL panel just voted 3-2 that Gordon v Chelsea should have been a penalty and we conceded an incredibly soft goal to Spurs with our backup keeper. We win either of those and we’re 7th; both and we’re joint 5th. Plus we’re heading towards the CL playoff and in a cup semifinal.

 

The summer signings can be debated, away form is bad, our mentality with a lead is soft, our midfield has question marks, and we’re struggling to score. But we’re not “massively underperforming.” 
 

What we’re not currently doing is over performing, which for some reason is used as a rod for the manager instead of appreciating his ability to do that multiple times and understanding the reality of where we are.

[Gawalls]

2 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

We’re literally 2 points off 7th halfway through the season for everyone who is obsessed with us being equal to or better than our revenue / spending at all times.

 

A PL panel just voted 3-2 that Gordon v Chelsea should have been a penalty and we conceded an incredibly soft goal to Spurs with our backup keeper. We win either of those and we’re 7th; both and we’re joint 5th. Plus we’re heading towards the CL playoff and in a cup semifinal.

 

The summer signings can be debated, away form is bad, our mentality with a lead is soft, our midfield has question marks, and we’re struggling to score. But we’re not “massively underperforming.” 
 

What we’re not currently doing is over performing, which for some reason is used as a rod for the manager instead of appreciating his ability to do that multiple times and understanding the reality of where we are.

Nothing he said about tactics, changes etc are wrong though but also everything you wrote is spot on as well. I would say we are underperforming a lot this season and if we can't agree that is it 11 points thrown away from winning positions isn't a sign of something needs to change there then I don't know what we will agree on. Even taking that penalty off the table we should have got at least those two points and been in 7th off our own backs but at the same time the season is far from over as January could turn it around - that's the main point I took out out of his post.

[LionOfGosforth]

1 minute ago, Gawalls said:

Nothing he said about tactics, changes etc are wrong though but also everything you wrote is spot on as well. I would say we are underperforming a lot this season and if we can't agree that is it 11 points thrown away from winning positions isn't a sign of something needs to change there then I don't know what we will agree on. Even taking that penalty off the table we should have got at least those two points and been in 7th off our own backs but at the same time the season is far from over as January could turn it around - that's the main point I took out out of his post.

 

Is that directly and/or always on the manager though? The intangibles of this point are worth discussing. Can he really be held to account because Gordon loves diving around instead of staying on his feet? It's clearly ingrained at this point and benching him isn't necessarily the answer. Is it his fault when Murphy plants the ball into the sky instead of bursting the net from 6 yards out with a gaping goal? Or when an opposition player is somehow able to squeeze a bobbling overhead kick into the net in injury time of a game we could have had won 3 times over? I think the players have let him down multiple times and there's only so much you can do in-season to remedy that.

 

The overall arcing point is that despite all of these things, the season can still deliver amazing things, dumping a manager is just going to lead to a level of upheaval that will derail the season. I tend to agree that the upcoming fixtures provide a springboard and we need to take advantage, I just don't think the doom mongering if things don't quite pan out is worth serious consideration.

[Gawalls]

6 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

Is that directly and/or always on the manager though? The intangibles of this point are worth discussing. Can he really be held to account because Gordon loves diving around instead of staying on his feet? It's clearly ingrained at this point and benching him isn't necessarily the answer. Is it his fault when Murphy plants the ball into the sky instead of bursting the net from 6 yards out with a gaping goal? Or when an opposition player is somehow able to squeeze a bobbling overhead kick into the net in injury time of a game we could have had won 3 times over? I think the players have let him down multiple times and there's only so much you can do in-season to remedy that.

 

The overall arcing point is that despite all of these things, the season can still deliver amazing things, dumping a manager is just going to lead to a level of upheaval that will derail the season. I tend to agree that the upcoming fixtures provide a springboard and we need to take advantage, I just don't think the doom mongering if things don't quite pan out is worth serious consideration.

Yeah probably wrong forum - I didn't mean it was the managers fault just more I'm looking to him to somehow fix it I guess.

[Andy84]

This is without doubt his toughest period as NUFC manager but I think the bottom line is he deserves the chance to navigate this period.  He clearly hasn’t “lost the dressing room” or anything remotely like that.

 

 He’ll get the chance to make things better and I think he will take it because history proves he always does 

 

 

Edited January 1 by Andy84

[TRon]

50 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

Is that directly and/or always on the manager though? The intangibles of this point are worth discussing. Can he really be held to account because Gordon loves diving around instead of staying on his feet? It's clearly ingrained at this point and benching him isn't necessarily the answer. Is it his fault when Murphy plants the ball into the sky instead of bursting the net from 6 yards out with a gaping goal? Or when an opposition player is somehow able to squeeze a bobbling overhead kick into the net in injury time of a game we could have had won 3 times over? I think the players have let him down multiple times and there's only so much you can do in-season to remedy that.

 

The overall arcing point is that despite all of these things, the season can still deliver amazing things, dumping a manager is just going to lead to a level of upheaval that will derail the season. I tend to agree that the upcoming fixtures provide a springboard and we need to take advantage, I just don't think the doom mongering if things don't quite pan out is worth serious consideration.

 

You will always get games where things go against you, but the complaints we have look disjointed or underperforming in general are understandable IMO. If we were playing well and getting bad luck I think most would recognise it. The number of good performances in the PL you could probably count on one hand.

 

Other than that though, I agree the answer isn't to ditch the manager. He needs to be given time to turn things around. If he does, it could still turn out a very good season, and he's got a good record of doing it. 

[LionOfGosforth]

14 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

You will always get games where things go against you, but the complaints we have look disjointed or underperforming in general are understandable IMO. If we were playing well and getting bad luck I think most would recognise it. The number of good performances in the PL you could probably count on one hand.

 

Other than that though, I agree the answer isn't to ditch the manager. He needs to be given time to turn things around. If he does, it could still turn out a very good season, and he's got a good record of doing it. 

 

All fair and I doubt many would disagree that our performances haven't been good, particularly away from home. A few extra points if we'd held onto some leads wouldn't change the sloppy away displays, we'd all just feel a bit better about what the season could yet deliver I suppose. Just think that one thing you couldn't really level at us, before this season, is that we've looked consistently disjointed and a lot of that I put on the transfer business and failure to fully integrate a few of those signings. The factors for that are pretty varied and not any one thing imo. I certainly hope future windows with an actual DoF in place will be better.

[Keegans Export]

There was a key line in the latest Luke Edwards transfer piece;

 

Quote

While it was never publicly declared, Newcastle were in August targeting another top-eight finish, as well as progress in both the Champions League and domestic cup competitions.

 

Assuming that means post-Isak sale, it gives an indication as to what the expectations were/are. 

 

Seeing as we're very much in touching distance of 8th, look likely to progress to the CL playoffs and are in another cup semi, I'd say he's still a long way from walking on thin ice.

 

Arguments about the ambitions of targeting top 8 finishes can happen on a different thread...

[Displayname]

1 hour ago, Keegans Export said:

There was a key line in the latest Luke Edwards transfer piece;

 

 

Assuming that means post-Isak sale, it gives an indication as to what the expectations were/are. 

 

Seeing as we're very much in touching distance of 8th, look likely to progress to the CL playoffs and are in another cup semi, I'd say he's still a long way from walking on thin ice.

 

Arguments about the ambitions of targeting top 8 finishes can happen on a different thread...

Isn't that the guy who was proven a liar this summer?

[BonesJones]

Considering our performanes haven't been as good as last season, the only difference at this stage of the season compared to last is we had won two more games thats it.

 

I'd imagine we can only perform better based on what we've seen so far, and IF we do then there's a good league finish open to us.

 

The change from Isak to Woltemade for half a season is huge aswell, doesnt matter that we still play the same formation, its the same as going from Isak to Chris Wood (of course Wolte is better) in terms of playing style, so until very recently weve not been able to attack anything like what the team has been used to the last few seasons. Love him or hate him Isak in our setup was a world class striker, and when you take that out of any team there will be an impact.

 

We're not doing all that bad, neither is Eddie if you just look at it for what it really is. We have no evidence on him to think performances won't improve.

 

Wissa will be a huge impact! Must stay fit.

[Sir Joel Inton]

5 hours ago, Keegans Export said:

There was a key line in the latest Luke Edwards transfer piece;

 

 

Assuming that means post-Isak sale, it gives an indication as to what the expectations were/are. 

 

Seeing as we're very much in touching distance of 8th, look likely to progress to the CL playoffs and are in another cup semi, I'd say he's still a long way from walking on thin ice.

 

Arguments about the ambitions of targeting top 8 finishes can happen on a different thread...

 

Top 8 is basically the Sky 6 + us and Villa. I think that is a solid target to be in and around those teams.

 

I’m not sure we’re in a position to expect to finish above any of them each season based on PSR/budgets, but you can almost guarantee at least two of them will have an off season each year which then puts us in and around the CL spaces. 

[Cf]

6 hours ago, TRon said:

 

You will always get games where things go against you, but the complaints we have look disjointed or underperforming in general are understandable IMO. If we were playing well and getting bad luck I think most would recognise it. The number of good performances in the PL you could probably count on one hand.

 

Other than that though, I agree the answer isn't to ditch the manager. He needs to be given time to turn things around. If he does, it could still turn out a very good season, and he's got a good record of doing it. 

 

How many other teams in the PL aren't suffering from this?

 

I reckon only Arsenal have been properly consistent.

 

Pretty much everyone else though has had ups and downs. Just points to a strong league this season imo.

[dcmk]

7 hours ago, Andy84 said:

This is without doubt his toughest period as NUFC manager but I think the bottom line is he deserves the chance to navigate this period.  He clearly hasn’t “lost the dressing room” or anything remotely like that.

 

 He’ll get the chance to make things better and I think he will take it because history proves he always does 

 

 

 

When we was last in the CL he had barely any fit players. A totally exhausted and depleted squad. Tonali was banned.  No time on the training ground between constant stream of games. In very bad form.

 

I would argue that was the toughest time and he passed with flying colours there, turned around the form and got us playing good football again.

[r0cafella]

7 hours ago, Keegans Export said:

There was a key line in the latest Luke Edwards transfer piece;

 

 

Assuming that means post-Isak sale, it gives an indication as to what the expectations were/are. 

 

Seeing as we're very much in touching distance of 8th, look likely to progress to the CL playoffs and are in another cup semi, I'd say he's still a long way from walking on thin ice.

 

Arguments about the ambitions of targeting top 8 finishes can happen on a different thread...

If true that's very reasonable imo. Basically perform at par in terms of cost. 

[Stottie]

10 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

We’re literally 2 points off 7th halfway through the season for everyone who is obsessed with us being equal to or better than our revenue / spending at all times.

 

A PL panel just voted 3-2 that Gordon v Chelsea should have been a penalty and we conceded an incredibly soft goal to Spurs with our backup keeper. We win either of those and we’re 7th; both and we’re joint 5th. Plus we’re heading towards the CL playoff and in a cup semifinal.

 

The summer signings can be debated, away form is bad, our mentality with a lead is soft, our midfield has question marks, and we’re struggling to score. But we’re not “massively underperforming.” 
 

What we’re not currently doing is over performing, which for some reason is used as a rod for the manager instead of appreciating his ability to do that multiple times and understanding the reality of where we are.

This is a great post.

Both Understat and Opta say our performances in individual games merit an extra four-five points, which would make a difference in this weak/competitive league but is not "massive".

Our finishing has been poor, Ramsdale was poor, and we've not had the rub of the green with decisions. Woltemade has been heavily fouled and was elbowed in the face by the team currently in top spot. That Mackem donkey of a center forward got to stand on ankle on a yellow card at 0-0. I've been unconvinced by our performances, but the league is not full of other teams that are convincing. Several of them have been good at falling behind to NUFC before getting their shit together later in the game.

The upcoming dilemma is the FA Cup, which offers silverware and a Europa place, but would be another distraction and additional toil from the league were only doing okay in.

[Ellis H]

Is the penny starting to drop for people about how it's extremely difficult to win and even play well regularly this season? It's hard normally but it's now by far the most competitive PL season ever. Literally free spending Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd just dropping points against Leeds, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Wolves says it all and they aren't isolated incidents. There's 10 points separating 4th and 15th in January which is ridiculous and the team in 15th havent won since October.

 

I don't understand why we expect Howe to be above all this and how he needs to "sort it out" when it's nearly every team in the league, of which quite a few have spent far more than we have in recent windows and some have even changed managers. If they can't "sort it out" why should it be so easy for Howe to do it? We've only just replaced our 20 goal striker a few weeks ago.

 

The cream will rise to the top and Howe's previous seasons prove he's capable of getting the job done both in the league and the cups.

[r0cafella]

2 hours ago, Ellis H said:

Is the penny starting to drop for people about how it's extremely difficult to win and even play well regularly this season? It's hard normally but it's now by far the most competitive PL season ever. Literally free spending Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd just dropping points against Leeds, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Wolves says it all and they aren't isolated incidents. There's 10 points separating 4th and 15th in January which is ridiculous and the team in 15th havent won since October.

 

I don't understand why we expect Howe to be above all this and how he needs to "sort it out" when it's nearly every team in the league, of which quite a few have spent far more than we have in recent windows and some have even changed managers. If they can't "sort it out" why should it be so easy for Howe to do it? We've only just replaced our 20 goal striker a few weeks ago.

 

The cream will rise to the top and Howe's previous seasons prove he's capable of getting the job done both in the league and the cups.

Err I mean that's one perspective right. The other is we've been poor away from home for 12 months and we lack any form of identity which is odd given it was such a strong one we had. Throw in the free reign to buy players and massive outlay in the summer has some people questioning and an extremely small fringe asking for him to be removed. 

[Gawalls]

4 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Err I mean that's one perspective right. The other is we've been poor away from home for 12 months and we lack any form of identity which is odd given it was such a strong one we had. Throw in the free reign to buy players and massive outlay in the summer has some people questioning and an extremely small fringe asking for him to be removed. 

Also we had one guy up front who was getting around 40% of our goals alone and we've lost him trying to rebuild and rediscover our identity as you put it may be down to that somewhat as well. Not totally making excuses as you're right we have been bad away from home but talk games a week, losing Isak but still playing the same way as if we have him can't help.

 

 

Edited January 2 by Gawalls

[SteV]

Absolutely rinsed Ryder in his presser for claiming it was an onslaught from Burnley for the rest of the match after we went 2-0 up.

[Gawalls]

13 minutes ago, SteV said:

Absolutely rinsed Ryder in his presser for claiming it was an onslaught from Burnley for the rest of the match after we went 2-0 up.

Words like that thrown around to much by journalists, my favourite is when they say things like "he spectacularly signed" - how exactly, did he enter the room holding a pen followed by a marching band.

 

 

Edited January 2 by Gawalls

[Disco]

He always gives Paperback the shortest of shrifts.

[Chicken Dancer]

I mean it wasn’t for the rest of the match but the first 20/30 minutes of the second half was pretty much a Burnley onslaught. 

[SteV]

7 minutes ago, Disco said:

He always gives Paperback the shortest of shrifts.

He does, but one of the best things about him is his ability to do it a manner, that whilst still unequivocally gets his point across, isn’t overly aggressive, and likely to cause aggro (see his predecessor).

 

So Ryder will go away from that having been slapped down, but not hell bent on doing a hatchet piece as vengeance.

[SteV]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Dancer said:

I mean it wasn’t for the rest of the match but the first 20/30 minutes of the second half was pretty much a Burnley onslaught. 

15/20 mins at the most. And he partly acknowledged that.

 

But he’s right to fight back against the narrative that it was a game where we went ahead early then desperately clung on after. If anything, we were the team that subsequently created the better chances.

[Nucasol]

12 minutes ago, Disco said:

He always gives Paperback the shortest of shrifts.

Rightly so. Window Licker Lee should be nowhere near a press room.