Kid Icarus Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said: Yes that's agreed, I can't get on board with being tired after 30 mins by any metric, that's my opinion I think you'd agree that tiredness shows itself relative to the opposition. I don't think that's controversial like, if we hadn't played one of the best teams there is tonight I doubt anyone would bring it up, mainly because I think it wouldn't have made any difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUHRLYASLEEVESUP Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Just now, Mattoon said: We've played more games and travelled further than any team in Europe this season, what is that 47 games now? 19 since January 1st and with a relatively small squad of any quality and carrying injuries to key players, you can't dismiss the fatigue. Not dismissing the fatigue, but come on man tired after 30 mins ? If that's the case what the fuck are our sports scientists, statisticians, dieticians etc etc etc doing ? By this metric we have to win the game in a 1/3rd of the playing time allowed or were beat, just can't have it at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Just now, Ronson333 said: I thought the same, apparently he is ruthless, given what he’s done for us I’m happy for him to be given the chance. It was a different world I know - But Keegan didn’t give a shit, he changed anything for better - Eddie I think overall is a better technical manager, just needs that ruthlessness. He isn’t ruthless at all - it should be the biggest criticism of him. He clings onto players too long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 6 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: These argument would a lot more water if we were flying until the fixture pile-up. We’ve looked poor for quite some time - and we spent a lot of money on bolstering the squad in the summer. The fatigue arguement is genuine but the idea we were playing well before the league cup/Champions League games started coming just isn't true. We've been lacklustre from the start and the Leeds, Villa, Bournemouth, Wolves games in that first month were turgid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Agreed - he played a full strength side at home to Bradford and then complains about fixture pile-ups. No lessons learned from last time out - and if that lesson can’t be learned, then I trust the ownership is happy that we need to avoid European football to have a good season. That's not even true and (unbelievable that this would need saying) a piece of piss game, early in the season, where we coast to victory against an EFL side without breaking sweat is hardly going to break the squad. It's the intensity of CL > PL > FAC against top 3 team carousel that's doing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Which part of the clear out should but won't happen? We might lose Schar and Willock,fuck knows with the goalies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUHRLYASLEEVESUP Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Just now, Kid Icarus said: I think you'd agree that tiredness shows itself relative to the opposition. I don't think that's controversial like, if we hadn't played one of the best teams there is tonight I doubt anyone would bring it up, mainly because I think it wouldn't have made any difference. Yes I agree, the opposition will clearly have an impact on the final result in any competition relevant to the variance in abilities / physicaltiy, just can't get on board with the tired after 30 mins bit, maybes just my outlook Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: There's no hill, it's just an opinion. It's Man City, all the under the lights stuff has merit but it's not a guarantee, we played on Wednesday with 10 men, won, and we've just played one of the best teams there is 3 days later in a run where we've been playing every 3 days for months now. Sometimes I wonder what people expect, even without the fatigue, even without us not being the finished article, we're not on Man City's level. Punching above our weight being the expectation is not for me personally. I know they are a lot better than us, but it's only us who seem to make them look like supermen. It feels like Marmoush has scored all of his goals against us in about 3 matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Agreed - he played a full strength side at home to Bradford and then complains about fixture pile-ups. No lessons learned from last time out - and if that lesson can’t be learned, then I trust the ownership is happy that we need to avoid European football to have a good season. It was the Qarabag game for me. Literally started the game with a FIVE GOAL cushion and we still had Burn, Tonali, Woltemade, Barnes playing 90mins. Even the players we subbed on were first team regulars until Shahar after 87min when we were six goals ahead. The number of games is a very valid mitigating factor but Christ we really haven't helped ourselves either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronson333 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: He isn’t ruthless at all - it should be the biggest criticism of him. He clings onto players too long. He hasn’t shown much of it yet, but id stiil give him the summer to show if he’s got the metal or not. Edited March 7 by Ronson333 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stabmasterareson Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Yorkie said: That's not even true and (unbelievable that this would need saying) a piece of piss game, early in the season, where we coast to victory against an EFL side without breaking sweat is hardly going to break the squad. It's the intensity of CL > PL > FAC against top 3 team carousel that's doing it. Really worth pointing out that despite the bravado of the post, the Bradford side wasn't full strength and saying so doesn't make it so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stozo Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said: He isn’t ruthless at all - it should be the biggest criticism of him. He clings onto players too long. I honestly don't think you can say that given the SCR situation. He clings on to Joelinton, Burn, Pope, Trippier etc. precisely because he has no ability to replace them like-for-like on quality. And 2 out of those 4 (Burn and Joelinton) will probably be squad players again next season, precisely because we won't have the money to upgrade them. I don't think that's Howe's sentimentality, I think it's just the reality of the situation he finds himself in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Yorkie said: That's not even true and (unbelievable that this would need saying) a piece of piss game, early in the season, where we coast to victory against an EFL side without breaking sweat is hardly going to break the squad. It's the intensity of CL > PL > FAC against top 3 team carousel that's doing it. We weren’t playing well before the fixture pile-up. This is just the latest excuse for us being a bit shit - and it’s a more convincing one than earlier in the season, but the exhaustion would have more validity if we’d racked up the points when we’d played the same number of games as the teams we were facing. I can remember that the line back in November time is that we would ‘click’ soon, that this happens with Howe’s sides. We’re in March and now it’s down to fixture congestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Said it in other threads but got it horribly wrong. Line up suggested this was a lower priority to us. Not making changes at HT was criminal considering we were hanging on. Wtf do you think is gonna happen if you change nothing. Then the subs just signalled that they cared more about Tuesday but even then they were abit mental, putting Hall RB, bringing on Dan Burn when even Hall had been struggling against the raw pace of Savinho. But worst of all leaving on Woltemade when we were basically playing ten men by putting him in midfield tonight. If we get through against Barca then I won't be critical but it feels like the Barca game will be a similar repeat of this. Just got the feeling we self sabotaged by the decisions he made tonight and it feels like he was happy to go out of the cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barton Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) imo big nick is also effecting those on the pitch around him. everyone can see how weak he’s been .. give him a spell out or benched Edited March 7 by barton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, Keegans Export said: It was the Qarabag game for me. Literally started the game with a FIVE GOAL cushion and we still had Burn, Tonali, Woltemade, Barnes playing 90mins. Even the players we subbed on were first team regulars until Shahar after 87min when we were six goals ahead. The number of games is a very valid mitigating factor but Christ we really haven't helped ourselves either. Likewise - an absolutely ludicrous starting line-up? And then the subs were fucking ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Just now, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said: Yes I agree, the opposition will clearly have an impact on the final result in any competition relevant to the variance in abilities / physicaltiy, just can't get on board with the tired after 30 mins bit, maybes just my outlook I think thats probably when the fatigue starts to drip in and like you say when you're playing a top side like Man City that has an effect on the players, the fatigue is as much mental as it is physical and after 30 minutes I can totally see the mental fragility piling up, the confidence starts to fade as the realisation sets in that weve give it everything and we've not done enough to see out the 90. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earp Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 So we go ahead by pressing City. We then sit back, let them score and after that they’re able to control the game. Why don’t we do a Spurs and keep going at them. Look at Forest mid-week. Second half was a fucking awful watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, stozo said: I honestly don't think you can say that given the SCR situation. He clings on to Joelinton, Burn, Pope, Trippier etc. precisely because he has no ability to replace them like-for-like on quality. And 2 out of those 4 (Burn and Joelinton) will probably be squad players again next season, precisely because we won't have the money to upgrade them. I don't think that's Howe's sentimentality, I think it's just the reality of the situation he finds himself in. SCR / FFP is precisely why he shouldn’t have clung onto the likes of Joelinton. We don’t sell when players are at peak value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Holloway said: Which part of the clear out should but won't happen? We might lose Schar and Willock,fuck knows with the goalies Pretty much all of it, largely as we've fucked up the one chance we had to make big changes and have a season to let everyone bed in. Financially we now need Champions League for 27/28 or we will need to trade out any top 4 quality we have due to personal ambition or income needs. We need at least one player in every position other than Left Wing (maybe) this summer. And that's a first team ready player, not a project for 3 years. The need to get top 5 will mean 4 players will come in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 4 minutes ago, alexf said: Not making changes at HT was criminal considering we were hanging on. Wtf do you think is gonna happen if you change nothing. Main thing for me. It was obvious for everyone. Started the second half as the first half finished. They scored after 2 mins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: We weren’t playing well before the fixture pile-up. This is just the latest excuse for us being a bit shit - and it’s a more convincing one than earlier in the season, but the exhaustion would have more validity if we’d racked up the points when we’d played the same number of games as the teams we were facing. I can remember that the line back in November time is that we would ‘click’ soon, that this happens with Howe’s sides. We’re in March and now it’s down to fixture congestion. Such a frustrating argument to be having. We've got issues beyond the fact that the schedule is insane, but the schedule is nevertheless insane. Denying it's impact is absolutely stupid. He selected the team against Qarabag because he thought we needed to get the run of home games off to a good start and didn't have many rotation options beyond throwing academy players in, which would've undermined the main objective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Just now, Yorkie said: Such a frustrating argument to be having. We've got issues beyond the fact that the schedule is insane, but the schedule is nevertheless insane. Denying it's impact is absolutely stupid. He selected the team against Qarabag because he thought we needed to get the run of home games off to a good start and didn't have many rotation options beyond throwing academy players in, which wouldn't undermined the main objective. The tie was completely over and you’re guessing at his rationale. It was an absurdity to play that side given the fixtures that were coming - and this isn’t hindsight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) It's a steep and unforgiving learning curve for him with this schedule (at this level that he got us to) particularly in an obvious transition season, but I generally understand why he makes his decisions even if I don't always agree (quite often just at first). Eg weighing up spreading the load vs winning, subs being wanted earlier vs subs coming on and us getting worse. I'm very confident he'll get it right. Managers who consistently punch above their weight shouldn't be held to that standard, they should be supported so that the weight they punch above keeps going up. Edited March 7 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffs Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, nufc123 said: Main thing for me. It was obvious for everyone. Started the second half as the first half finished. They scored after 2 mins. Agree. Not quite as obvious as the need to sub Burn at Brentford but close. Joelinton on for Woltemade at HT would've made such a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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