Antipode23 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: Howe, the executive mess, the recruitment team and the bad luck with injuries at the start of the season. What's the difference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Decky said: He's been here for four years, is the fact that squad is mid table now not on him too? His biggest flaw is that he holds onto too many players for too long - then selects them time and again Look at the leadership group - all his yes men Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny36 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) This narrative that he won us a cup so he should be kept on wears thin . Alex Mc Leish , Michael Laudrup and Steve McClaren won the same cup.. Roberto Martinez, Rodgers and Glasner won the FA Cup and they all got/will get peddled by their clubs We cant afford blind loyalty.We have to be ruthless going forward..Our chairman made a public declaration that he wants us to be #1 Time to start acting it. Edited March 22 by johnny36 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I'm not going to let the emotion of the day push me into "Howe Out" but I'd be having a very frank conversation with him ahead of the summer. Does he concede control over transfers? Tell the decision makers what he needs, let them do the work. Will he bring new, fresh and potentially dissenting voices into his coaching staff? Time on the training ground has obviously been limited but most of the time we don't look like we've been coached at all. What is the plan for if/when we are back in Europe? If we rely on week-long gaps between fixtures to get anything other than crap performances we're going to keep taking one step forward and two steps back. How does he want the team to play? What's the back up plan if plan A isn't working? If there isn't an absolutely clear, well-thought-out and logical response to the above then I'd say he's probably taken us as far as he can (which, in the grand scheme of things, is quite far). One final point - if the only reposte is "who would you replace him with?" then don't bother replying. He's just been tactically out-played by a bloke I'd never heard of until 18 months ago. Mental to suggest there isn't an alternative out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) I feel like I’d still be much more concerned with an unknown manager trying to get a tune out of our players than Howe being allowed another summer to coach and make signings. Probably why I’m so pro Howe is the massive risk involved in changing him. Edited March 22 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 This time last week he was indispensable. Shows what a week can do in football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 8 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: Howe, the executive mess, the recruitment team and the bad luck with injuries at the start of the season. The board is responsible really because they created a situation where Howe and his team had a bigger say on transfers, but ultimately if Howes targeted those players he is responsible for the state the squads in and it's worrying that he can't seem to identify quality players. He did the same at Bournemouth spending big money on players who didn't work out. Edited March 22 by Decky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 6 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Sticking with my previous unhappy vote. Today was a major blow but wouldn't want to give them the satisfaction of binning him now. Same here. I don't think he can turn it round tbh, but he'll get another season just because the board will be reluctant to ditch a hero. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said: I wasn’t arguing the merits, I was just saying I’m surprised you hadn’t already voted out. Grimly holding on to the last vestiges of hope is most of our lot in life Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy84 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Love him Couldn’t give a fuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, johnny36 said: This narrative that he won us a cup so he should be kept on wears thin . Alex Mc Leish , Michael Laudrup and Steve McClaren won the same cup.. Roberto Martinez, Rodgers and Glasner won the FA Cup and they all got/will get peddled by their clubs . We cant afford blind loyalty.We have to be ruthless going forward..Our chairman made a public declaration that he wants us to be #1 I was with you until you called it blind loyalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, TRon said: Same here. I don't think he can turn it round tbh, but he'll get another season just because the board will be reluctant to ditch a hero. They've bet the house on him, so if they do act it will be really a major upheaval. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Still don’t ‘want’ him sacked but hand on heart he’s not the right person for the job because I wouldn’t want him spending another penny of the club’s money. I’m a broken record on this but the lack of technical ability for what we’ve spent is staggering and indefensible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 18 minutes ago, AngelofTheFourth said: The people I find most frustrating are the ones saying “give him another season.” The reality is, we likely won’t even be in Europe next season so the same issues probably won’t come up anyway. But we can’t afford to keep bouncing in and out of European competitions like this. It’s not sustainable financially or competitively. Howe has clearly struggled when it comes to balancing UCL football, and that’s something we can’t ignore. So what’s the plan? Keep him for another season, then sack him whether he gets UCL or not? Good question. I suspect if he did get CL next year, some fans would (understandably) be happy with that type of 2-year cycle. It would beat the hell out of the Ashley years, we've won a trophy that way, and arguably - without an Isak saga-blighted Summer - things might go differently next time. But my view is that the Isak-saga will happen again. Transfers of the likes of Hall, Tonali, Gordon could shape future Summers. Lynchpins like Bruno, Joelinton, Schar and Burn are getting older. And none of this really IMO satisfactorily explains the defensive frailty, transition-focused play and game management issues which require solving for the team to break out of that 2-year yo-yo cycle. Howe will always be a club legend for the cup and innumerable other moments, and should be respected for that. However, I've seen on here multiple times from multiple posters that if he wasn't as constrained by PSR, or if he had Arteta's budget he could do XYZ - I just don't think that's true from watching him have Newcastle's budget relative to the likes of Sunderland! Even with extra competitions as a partial counterbalance. Zooming out - taking domestic cups seriously and competing for European football is hardly "sky is falling" territory, but it's about ambition. I think ownership should see who is available if the ambition of wanting to be an elite club isn't just hot air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, johnny36 said: This narrative that he won us a cup so he should be kept on wears thin . Alex Mc Leish , Michael Laudrup and Steve McClaren won the same cup.. Roberto Martinez, Rodgers and Glasner won the FA Cup and they all got/will get peddled by their clubs We cant afford blind loyalty.We have to be ruthless going forward..Our chairman made a public declaration that he wants us to be #1 Time to start acting it. Ranieri got peddled by Leicester in the same calendar year as winning the title Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Keegans Export said: I'm not going to let the emotion of the day push me into "Howe Out" but I'd be having a very frank conversation with him ahead of the summer. Does he concede control over transfers? Tell the decision makers what he needs, let them do the work. Will he bring new, fresh and potentially dissenting voices into his coaching staff? Time on the training ground has obviously been limited but most of the time we don't look like we've been coached at all. What is the plan for if/when we are back in Europe? If we rely on week-long gaps between fixtures to get anything other than crap performances we're going to keep taking one step forward and two steps back. How does he want the team to play? What's the back up plan if plan A isn't working? If there isn't an absolutely clear, well-thought-out and logical response to the above then I'd say he's probably taken us as far as he can (which, in the grand scheme of things, is quite far). One final point - if the only reposte is "who would you replace him with?" then don't bother replying. He's just been tactically out-played by a bloke I'd never heard of until 18 months ago. Mental to suggest there isn't an alternative out there. Agree on him keeping his job by default tbh. It's not a good policy, but if you are going to shoot the King, you better not miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggys First Goal Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Fuck it. Give him 10 more years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, Decky said: The board is responsible really because they created a situation where Howe and his team had a bigger say on transfers, but ultimately if Howes targeted those players he is responsible for the state the squads in and it's worrying they he can't seem to identify quality players. He did the same at Bournemouth spending big money on players who didn't work out. Well not quite, they created a situation where there wasn’t a harmonious and functioning structure above and around Howe. We can’t go through every signing again, I don’t have the fingertip skin for that. He shouldn’t have ‘too much’ control, no manager should. But making that work depends on the roles being player by others too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, dcmk said: A cup winning manager and the guy who is responsible for two champions league campaigns IS the least of our problems. The Cup win was over a year ago. We qualified for the CL 10 months ago. They have absolutely nothing to do with the here and now which has been pathetic. You mention the Champions League. Our last game in that was a 7-2 thrashing. Since those things happened he's squandered £200m on utter shite and our team looks a total shadow of the team that won the League Cup and finished 5th. You can't live in the past because you'll ultimately go backwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlamourBoys88 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I think the majority of our players will stick around even if we miss out on Europe. Most likely to leave will be Tonali (we probably haven’t gotten the best out of him consistently so wouldn’t mind so long we make a decent profit), Tino (again, wouldn’t mind only if we get a good replacement who can play off both feet) and Gordon (biggest loss of all; his speed and versatility are immense for how we play). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipode23 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, DevonGeordie said: Cherry on top of a poor season really. Said it before Christmas that the cup performances were papering over the cracks, and were now in a position where we may not even get European football next season. Wouldn’t be against rolling the dice with an interim manager until the summer tbh, realistically we’re not getting relegated. Glass half full, I like it. What a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Misery Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Grimly holding on to the last vestiges of hope is most of our lot in life "Holding on in quiet desperation is the english way.." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Charlton Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, johnny36 said: ..Our chairman made a public declaration that he wants us to be #1 Doubt he knows we played today... Howe in anyway,Cant see him turning out for a Cartel side aswell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said: Ranieri got peddled by Leicester in the same calendar year as winning the title And they’re still challenging at the top of the league, amazing really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandy Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 He’s a good coach but at premier league level he hits a ceiling and runs out of steam, that is glaringly obvious now. It happened at Bournemouth and now it has happened here. When he inevitably leaves here he will take a break and come back to another PL club and do really well for them for a few years before hitting the same ceiling. My guess is that his next club will be Everton. The problem we have isn’t with getting another top class manager, it’s with an ownership that has become complacent. They probably thought that they had lucked out and had secured their very own Alex Ferguson. Well they haven’t, and now they need to do something about it or their asset will be back to the status and financial value that it had when they bought it, in double-quick time too. They might find out the hard way that football fortunes change very quickly, for good and bad. And especially at this particular football club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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