Holmesy Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 hour ago, Yorkie said: If you're going to keep talking in these terms why don't you at least refer to the net spend (~£90m)? And why won't you acknowledge that the team was always going to get worse when Isak left, regardless of who came in? I'm not saying the signings have been good but referring exclusively to the spend and removing all other factors is extremely selective. Why was is it inevitable that we’d get worse? Other teams have banked big money from reluctantly selling their star players and improved due to strong transfer activity - Villa and Liverpool are the most noticeable but Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth deserve a mention too. it wasn’t inevitable at all - we could have used the summer to kick on like others have but instead of doing a Liverpool/Villa, we did a Spurs - wasting the lot on poor, ill-fitting players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Holmesy said: Why was is it inevitable that we’d get worse? Other teams have banked big money from reluctantly selling their star players and improved due to strong transfer activity - Villa and Liverpool are the most noticeable but Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth deserve a mention too. it wasn’t inevitable at all - we could have used the summer to kick on like others have but instead of doing a Liverpool/Villa, we did a Spurs - wasting the lot on poor, ill-fitting players. Because we lost arguably the best striker in the world and weren't allowed to replace him with anyone of anywhere near his quality. Regardless of Eddie Howe, it honestly blows my mind that there isn't a consensus from Newcastle fans on this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 5 minutes ago, The Prophet said: Aye, squad cost and wage bill are more accurate measures. Granted that has likely gone up after the summer. Gross spend tends to be used in bad faith, particularly as it ignores half of that summer spend was to replace Isak. And it should be noted that in terms of squad cost/wages we are at and about the top of the midfield pack but below the cartel and on that metric our league position is disappointing. But that's where I bring the gruelling fixture schedule in as mitigation which has been done to death. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 6 minutes ago, Holmesy said: Why was is it inevitable that we’d get worse? Other teams have banked big money from reluctantly selling their star players and improved due to strong transfer activity - Villa and Liverpool are the most noticeable but Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth deserve a mention too. it wasn’t inevitable at all - we could have used the summer to kick on like others have but instead of doing a Liverpool/Villa, we did a Spurs - wasting the lot on poor, ill-fitting players. Liverpool kicked on this summer with their transfer activity? Ok, I know you don't mean this summer there but the point remains a club you've just quoted as spending wisely have also spent a summer spaffing money up the wall in the wrong positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Yorkie said: Because we lost arguably the best striker in the world and weren't allowed to replace him with anyone of anywhere near his quality. Regardless of Eddie Howe, it honestly blows my mind that there isn't a consensus from Newcastle fans on this. We were never going to sign a like-for-like striker but a lesser one who fits, combined with improvements in other areas - #10, #6, quality RW could have mitigated that loss and seen us kick on. As someone else has pointed out, if the whole system was so reliant on Isak that his loss means flirting with relegation, the whole system was flawed from the start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Cf said: Liverpool kicked on this summer with their transfer activity? Ok, I know you don't mean this summer there but the point remains a club you've just quoted as spending wisely have also spent a summer spaffing money up the wall in the wrong positions. Liverpool kicked on post-Coutinho. It was the start of their ascent. Villa kicked on post-Grealish. Spurs squandered the Bale money in a similar fashion to us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Would love to move this thread along a bit... What are people expecting from the summer/ next season? Any evolution in style? A return to a more intense press? Quiet or busy window? What type of players are we expecting to come and go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, r0cafella said: Would love to move this thread along a bit... What are people expecting from the summer/ next season? Any evolution in style? A return to a more intense press? Quiet or busy window? What type of players are we expecting to come and go? I’m hoping that part of the recent discussions have involved an agreement about an evolution of style both on the pitch, and in the transfer market. Some of the recent links for players suggest this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Holmesy said: Liverpool kicked on post-Coutinho. It was the start of their ascent. Villa kicked on post-Grealish. Spurs squandered the Bale money in a similar fashion to us. And we kicked on post Mike Ashley. In this case by spending money the club wasn't otherwise spending rather than recouped by a transfer fee. That was the start of our ascent. Clubs have good and bad transfer windows. It was bringing up Liverpool as an example of doing things right when arguably by comparative standards they've had as bad a season as us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 28 minutes ago, Yorkie said: TheBB said "we spent a quarter of a million to improve the squad" which isn't even true, let alone dismissing mitigation. I wasn't saying this. I never said that you did tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 6 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Would love to move this thread along a bit... What are people expecting from the summer/ next season? Any evolution in style? A return to a more intense press? Quiet or busy window? What type of players are we expecting to come and go? Honesty? I expect the line up first game of the season to be 4-3-3, Burn Schar and Murphy starting along with Osula because we bring in a new striker too late for Eddie to integrate them in time. I just don't see how he evolves the way he wants his team to set out to play without a 12-18 month spell away from the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 9 minutes ago, Holmesy said: We were never going to sign a like-for-like striker but a lesser one who fits, combined with improvements in other areas - #10, #6, quality RW could have mitigated that loss and seen us kick on. Sorry, I just think you'd have to be on another planet to think that was achievable, considering how good Isak was and how we were blocked from signing anyone off even vaguely comparable to quality. Quote As someone else has pointed out, if the whole system was so reliant on Isak that his loss means flirting with relegation, the whole system was flawed from the start. Flirted with relegation is an exaggeration but I do agree that the Isak sale shouldn't have led to such a poor league campaign. No one has said that though. Anyway, sorry @r0cafella. Appreciate i started it this morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Cf said: And we kicked on post Mike Ashley. In this case by spending money the club wasn't otherwise spending rather than recouped by a transfer fee. That was the start of our ascent. Clubs have good and bad transfer windows. It was bringing up Liverpool as an example of doing things right when arguably by comparative standards they've had as bad a season as us. I was solely referring to teams who lost star players and improved by investing the funds wisely because that’s what was being discussed. And Liverpool did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Yorkie said: Sorry, I just think you'd have to be on another planet to think that was achievable, considering how good Isak was and how we were blocked from signing anyone off even vaguely comparable to quality. Flirted with relegation is an exaggeration but I do agree that the Isak sale shouldn't have led to such a poor league campaign. No one has said that though. Anyway, sorry @r0cafella. Appreciate i started it this morning. Give over man, nothing to apologise for. I think now is a good time to move things along as we've all done done our post mortems already and it seems like a decision has been made. let's look to the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Was wonderful seeing the overwhelming support for Eddie by the fans and players on Saturday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 8 minutes ago, Holmesy said: I was solely referring to teams who lost star players and improved by investing the funds wisely because that’s what was being discussed. And Liverpool did. Yeah fair. I guess my point is I don't really see it as any different from any other transfer window. There's money to be spent - is it spent well? Obviously losing a star player makes that harder so it's more notable when done well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Isak’s played 1000 minutes and scored 4 this season. Let’s imagine he’d stayed and that’s all we got out of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Yorkie said: Sorry, I just think you'd have to be on another planet to think that was achievable, considering how good Isak was and how we were blocked from signing anyone off even vaguely comparable to quality. Flirted with relegation is an exaggeration but I do agree that the Isak sale shouldn't have led to such a poor league campaign. No one has said that though. Anyway, sorry @r0cafella. Appreciate i started it this morning. Plenty on here have said that losing Isak is the reason for our poor campaign. Just look back through this thread, you’ll find loads. And it is always countered by the same argument - our defence has gone to shit, we can’t keep the ball, we wasted the replacement money etc. You have those who would defend Eddie even if he committed genocide, and those that recognise he was dealt a bad hand but magnified the impact of that bad hand through his own actions and inaction. We will likely never agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 41 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Would love to move this thread along a bit... What are people expecting from the summer/ next season? Any evolution in style? A return to a more intense press? Quiet or busy window? What type of players are we expecting to come and go? What will happen and what needs to happen will unfortunately be two different things. As I said earlier basically every area of the team needs looked at, from GK to CF and everything in between. We need better wide players if this 433 is staying for good. We need 2 FBs with the loss of Trippier, Krafth and Targett likely to be away. Burn and Schar are in the twilight stages of their careers and with Botmans fitness being unreliable we need another CB. Also need a proper CDM who would hopefully allow us to take control of games better. So basically a full overhaul. In reality we might bring in 4, possibly 5 players and I expect some big names to leave as well in Gordon, Tonali and one of Hall or Tino. Edited May 4 by Wallsendmag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 22 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Would love to move this thread along a bit... What are people expecting from the summer/ next season? Any evolution in style? A return to a more intense press? Quiet or busy window? What type of players are we expecting to come and go? 40 games next season should help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyc35i Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: Isak’s played 1000 minutes and scored 4 this season. Let’s imagine he’d stayed and that’s all we got out of him. The transfer fee would have been close to half I’d think as he would’ve still kicked up a fuss to leave. I maintain we sold him for an unbelievable / incredible fee given how much his body was holding up, it was just he plan to replace him failed. Edited May 4 by andyc35i Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 7 minutes ago, Holmesy said: I was solely referring to teams who lost star players and improved by investing the funds wisely because that’s what was being discussed. And Liverpool did. I thought Liverpool kicked on because they kept faith with Klopp despite him wanting to play only one style… high energy heavy metal football and major say in transfers. They just could afford a bigger depth of squad to compete on four fronts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Holmesy said: You have those who would defend Eddie even if he committed genocide, and those that recognise he was dealt a bad hand but magnified the impact of that bad hand through his own actions and inaction. We will likely never agree. I do sit here, fwiw. I only go flying in when I don't think there's enough weight applied to the mitigation. But yeah, we've done it to death haven't we. I'm looking forward to a new season with hopefully some reduced expectations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 8 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: Isak’s played 1000 minutes and scored 4 this season. Let’s imagine he’d stayed and that’s all we got out of him. “Injuries and Europe - mitigating circumstances for being in 15th”. Same same, but different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 12 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: Isak’s played 1000 minutes and scored 4 this season. Let’s imagine he’d stayed and that’s all we got out of him. Depends which games and at what times he scored those 4 goals. Where would we be if we had 12 more points? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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