The Prophet Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Feels like folk are underrating players because we've been so poor as a collective this season. For large parts of the season we finished 4th out front three was Willock, Wilson and Almiron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Playing once a week is a huge advantage. Brighton have a deep squad and Conference League isn't the strongest. But they can't cope with a 60-game season. It has to be top 5 or top 7 and a cup. That's the trade off for not being in Europe in any given season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Colos Short and Curlies said: It has to be top 5 or top 7 and a cup. That's the trade off for not being in Europe in any given season Is the correct answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said: It has to be top 5 or top 7 and a cup. That's the trade off for not being in Europe in any given season Because we don't have Europe we should finish above 2 of Chelsea (no Europe most likely), Man U, Villa and Spurs (no Europe)? Not for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC91 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, The College Dropout said: Because we don't have Europe we should finish above 2 of Chelsea (no Europe most likely), Man U, Villa and Spurs (no Europe)? Not for me. If the aim isn't top 6 then then we are massively lowballing standards and expectations, Sunderland who are newly promoted could finish 10th and Everton who has been restricted on spending for years are currently sat in 10th, the money we spent last summer and cost of squad we shouldn't be settling on competing for mid table when Bournemouth are 6 and Brentford are 7th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 21 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Depends on the summer transfer activity for us, for others and if Spurs go down. And who gets into Europe. I'd say now 6th-8th. With no Europe and some of the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton & Brentford in Europe, 8th is the floor. Forest and Palace may be in it too. Below Top 6 + Villa (better run club) is acceptable. Anything else is not. Rocking up with Barnes/Gordon - Woltemade/Wissa/Osula - Elanga/Murphy we could finish 10th. Pretty much where I am. I think getting into Europe has to be the minimum given we have a lighter schedule next season. Expecting top 5 probably a bit much given who is ahead of us and their spending power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 28 minutes ago, The Prophet said: Feels like folk are underrating players because we've been so poor as a collective this season. For large parts of the season we finished 4th out front three was Willock, Wilson and Almiron. Doing Wilson a disservice there, he was a brilliant striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 50 minutes ago, NUFC91 said: If the aim isn't top 6 then then we are massively lowballing standards and expectations, Sunderland who are newly promoted could finish 10th and Everton who has been restricted on spending for years are currently sat in 10th, the money we spent last summer and cost of squad we shouldn't be settling on competing for mid table when Bournemouth are 6 and Brentford are 7th. Based on what? Who of Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U, Spurs, Chelsea, Villa wouldn't expect to finish above us if they got their houses in order? If they all have a good summer, good managers in place - the top 6 should get top 6. Villa got 66 points the last time they were in the CL - that's CL 90% of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Prophet said: Feels like folk are underrating players because we've been so poor as a collective this season. For large parts of the season we finished 4th out front three was Willock, Wilson and Almiron. Wilson deserves more respect. Willock is still getting minutes for us and so would Almiron if he was here. We caught a lot of teams on the hop back then too. We haven't evolved properly since and there's an established way of beating us now. We are also a lot weaker defensively and will be much younger next season most likely. That was a back 5 at their prime. Our strikers scored 28 PL goals that season. And what another 15 from the wingers? Halcyon days. (numbers are guesstimated). That's my big issue with Eddie. A lack of genuinely new ideas and a disinterest in playing more football. Edited May 7 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Based on what? Who of Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U, Spurs, Chelsea, Villa wouldn't expect to finish above us if they got their houses in order? If they all have a good summer, good managers in place - the top 6 should get top 6. Villa got 66 points the last time they were in the CL - that's CL 90% of the time. Wild guess... Spurs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Robster said: Wild guess... Spurs I'll say it now. If Spurs stay up and keep De Zerbi, they get top 6*. *Assuming the injury situation improves I fancied Man U to get CL at the beginning of the season. If they keep Carrick the entire season I expect a much tougher season for them next year - although a lot will depend on transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, The College Dropout said: Wilson deserves more respect. Willock is still getting minutes for us and so would Almiron if he was here. We caught a lot of teams on the hop back then too. We haven't evolved properly since and there's an established way of beating us now. We are also a lot weaker defensively and will be much younger next season most likely. That was a back 5 at their prime. That's not really my point. When we play well we overrated our players, when we don't, we underrated them. It's human nature. Wliiock, Wilson, Almiron worked because they were playing in a well functioning team with established patterns of play. The current forward line is part of a dysfunctional outfit who's low on confidence. On paper, our forward line is no where near as bad it has been made to look, it's more than capable of chasing Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: You think that's the reason though? Not that they think Howe is good and want to give him more time - just that they can't be arsed to find a new manager? PSR is another perfectly valid reason not to. One of the great ironies of the team’s disastrous performance this season is that it’s made it pretty much impossible to sack the manager without risking breaching PSR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 47 minutes ago, The Prophet said: That's not really my point. When we play well we overrated our players, when we don't, we underrated them. It's human nature. Wliiock, Wilson, Almiron worked because they were playing in a well functioning team with established patterns of play. The current forward line is part of a dysfunctional outfit who's low on confidence. On paper, our forward line is no where near as bad it has been made to look, it's more than capable of chasing Europe. That doesn't reflect well on Howe then. Sometimes just a change of thinking can make the difference to a squad. We saw it with Amorim leaving. We saw it with Forest, and we are seeing signs of it at Spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TRon said: That doesn't reflect well on Howe then. Sometimes just a change of thinking can make the difference to a squad. We saw it with Amorim leaving. We saw it with Forest, and we are seeing signs of it at Spurs. Sometimes, yes, but then we can say Chelsea or Wolves. It's not a one size fits all rule. You could argue that circumstance and timing has benefitted Spurs in playing one of the worst teams PL history followed by a disgraceful Villa team who are 100% focused on their European tie. Edited May 7 by Robster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 European place in the league and winning a domestic cup is a reasonable aim IMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, The Prophet said: That's not really my point. When we play well we overrated our players, when we don't, we underrated them. It's human nature. Wliiock, Wilson, Almiron worked because they were playing in a well functioning team with established patterns of play. The current forward line is part of a dysfunctional outfit who's low on confidence. On paper, our forward line is no where near as bad it has been made to look, it's more than capable of chasing Europe. Maybe you do. I'm far less emotional and up and down than most fans. I never rated Gordon as highly as most did after his breakout season, i'm also probably one of the least eager to see him leave. I look at the squad - it's not stacked with quality. Maybe half a dozen would get moves to top 7 clubs and become key players for them. Without any European football, I would expect us to fight for Europe. For a non-European squad it would have a lot of depth in some areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 I don’t get it. I mean you are right that we have a top 7-8 squad and we should finish around there, assuming that every coach’s quality of work are the same. But if that’s the case then why continue to hire Eddie? We should have a better than average manager / coach and hence we should be aiming for Euro / top 6 finish every season. If we failed to do it, it just mean Eddie / the manager / the coach we hired ain’t good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 The manager who has massively outperformed that par in 4 out of his 5 seasons isn't better than average? That's your assessment of the situation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 41 minutes ago, TRon said: That doesn't reflect well on Howe then. Sometimes just a change of thinking can make the difference to a squad. We saw it with Amorim leaving. We saw it with Forest, and we are seeing signs of it at Spurs. It doesn't tell us anything we don't already know really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 If we don't finish top 7 (assuming no silverware) with no European football to stretch the squad it would be a massive failure imo, regardless of other teams. Unless there's a spurs level injury crisis for us next year I'd expect us to be challenging the top 5 tbh, but finishing at least 7th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 42 minutes ago, TRon said: That doesn't reflect well on Howe then. Sometimes just a change of thinking can make the difference to a squad. We saw it with Amorim leaving. We saw it with Forest, and we are seeing signs of it at Spurs. Man United had already improved massively under Amorim, he left because he claimed he wasn't being backed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 52 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: PSR is another perfectly valid reason not to. One of the great ironies of the team’s disastrous performance this season is that it’s made it pretty much impossible to sack the manager without risking breaching PSR There are lots of theoretical reason not to, I was more wondering why anyone would assume it's not just because they think Howe is a good manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: The manager who has massively outperformed that par in 4 out of his 5 seasons isn't better than average? That's your assessment of the situation? no I just mean no matter who is in that position, finishing top 6 or above is a minimum requirement even if we just have a top 7-8 squad. The bar is the same for everyone because we ain’t and shouldn’t settle for an average manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Zero said: no I just mean no matter who is in that position, finishing top 6 or above is a minimum requirement even if we just have a top 7-8 squad. The bar is the same for everyone because we ain’t and shouldn’t settle for an average manager. If that's your expectation then fair enough, but it would be a redefinition of what average actually means. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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