Eddie Howe

[80]

1 hour ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

 Think even last week's result needs some context applying. Luto had just smashed Brighton 4-0 so had their tails right up. And how many other Newcastle teams would have withered away when their 4th went in? 

I think that's key for me, in terms of how I feel about the match. The players didn't crumble, they stepped up. I'd have had a very sick feeling in my stomach if we hadn't shown that spirit. They clearly want to fight for their club, their manager and themselves, so we should let them fight on and show what they can do.

57 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

No, I’m with you - I’m not suggesting that Howe’s achievements are unimpressive.  I’m suggesting that Howe isn’t necessarily going to ‘peak’ in his 50s somehow.  There’s a good chance he’s at his managerial peak - but he hasn’t had the platform to win trophies yet.

 

His only full season with us so far saw him one game away from a trophy.  He might still win one this season yet. 

Depending on exactly what you mean, though, I don't believe he's peaked yet. He's shown he's come on a lot from that spell out between us and Bournemouth little more than two years ago, so there's no reason to think he can't develop further, considering all the genuinely new stuff he's had to contend with this year through European involvement. I'm confident he'll have taken loads out of that.

25 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

I don't remember Benitez getting much stick at all, I think Benitez could have finished rock bottom with zero points and still got no stick as he won the champions league 20 years ago and all the stick would have been directed at Ashley. Howe has received more stick than Benitez ever did which is absolute madness really considering he has done a far far better job for us than Benitez did.

 

 

 

I think we're overblowing how much stick he's received here, particularly from match going fans. Overall our support has been resolutely behind him, and makes a point of singing his name whenever we've been losing.

[Geogaddi]

The survey on The Athletic does thankfully show its a very small minority who are questioning him.

 

How satisfied are you with Howe’s performance this season?

 

Even given the team’s miserable winter — and a run of seven losses in 12 matches — Newcastle fans remain overwhelmingly pleased with Howe’s work. The head coach maintains immense credit from his first campaign and a half in charge, while there is sympathy expressed for the challenges faced this season.

With 86.8 per cent of respondents “very satisfied” and “satisfied” and a further 8.5 per cent “neither satisfied or unsatisfied”, it is clear that Newcastle supporters, like the club’s hierarchy, retain faith that Howe is the best person for the job.

[The College Dropout]

41 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I don't like to talk about 'expectations' too much because it's a silly football concept. But under Ashley we were happy to just not be a joke and survive as a club, it was a miracle Rafa ever came here at all. 

 

Now we've qualified for the CL people tend to overrate the resources the manager has and obviously want the good times to continue indefinitely... that's human nature. 

There are hard facts behind expectations. Our net spend is something like top 5 in Europe since the takeover. The squad cost is in the top 8 in the league. Our wage bill is top 8 in the league.

 

It's not made up out of thin air.

 

We are not a top team. That much is clear. But we've invested enough - smartly - to be a good team.

[Dr.Spaceman]

This just feels like the modern way labelling everything as being at either end of the scale with their being nowt in the middle. Let's be honest, EH has done some questionable things, but to actively want rid of him at this stage is utterly mental and not worth discussing at all.

[Shearergol]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

There are hard facts behind expectations. Our net spend is something like top 5 in Europe since the takeover. The squad cost is in the top 8 in the league. Our wage bill is top 8 in the league.

 

It's not made up out of thin air.

 

We are not a top team. That much is clear. But we've invested enough - smartly - to be a good team.

 

9th I think. 

 

But I think you're ignoring the fact that we've had to do this very quickly after years of neglect. You can't magic a functioning football club out of thin air regardless of what you throw at it money wise.

 

Still ignoring those injuries too I see.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Injuries are absolutely massive, that is the reason for our problems. Don't forget that we have half a championship squad with a few top players in it. 

 

Criticise anyone you want how you want, but it's mental to try and assess anything about this season without a massive caveat saying 'everyone has been injured'. 

 

Unless you think we should be doing brilliantly with only one PL midfielder available, for example, I really don't know what this debate is about. 

 

Not to mention having the hardest fixtures imaginable and also being cheated out of the CL by a ref.

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone can complain too much about results, because as you say, injuries have played a massive part. Only questionable things for me has been, given our high intensity football philosophy, were we not just compounding it by continuing to run the remaining fit players into the ground over 90+ mins game after game? I get that we had inexperience on the bench, but we have dropped a lot of points towards the end of games when players have been absolutely exhausted, I just think there must be a way to use the subs better if only to replace the tired ones and maintain running and energy levels.

 

There's also another argument that when you have a lot of key players missing, you can adapt your style by not pushing forward so relentlessly and maybe slowing the game down and waiting for space to open up. I thought it looked like we did that at Villa Park and it was the most in control over 90 mins I'd seen us for a while. Whether that was by design or just chance I don't know.

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Shearergol said:

 

9th I think. 

 

But I think you're ignoring the fact that we've had to do this very quickly after years of neglect. You can't magic a functioning football club out of thin air regardless of what you throw at it money wise.

 

Still ignoring those injuries too I see.

Maybe so.

 

But we've built the squad pretty well. It has gaps but it has quality too.

 

I think the management of the injuries (by management and medical staff, and a lack of nous around the Tonali transfer) is a big factor in our mess. I don't want to litigate it again but players have been run into the ground, brought back too early, overloaded, poorly assessed etc. I think we handled Joelinton terribly. He kept coming back, picking up injuries until he got a season ender. Isak & Wilson, Gordon, Schar have all played injured at points. Sometimes you make your own bad luck.

[Shearergol]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Maybe so.

 

But we've built the squad pretty well. It has gaps but it has quality too.

 

I think the management of the injuries (by management and medical staff, and a lack of nous around the Tonali transfer) is a big factor in our mess. I don't want to litigate it again but players have been run into the ground, brought back too early, overloaded, poorly assessed etc. I think we handled Joelinton terribly. He kept coming back, picking up injuries until he got a season ender. Isak & Wilson, Gordon, Schar have all played injured at points. Sometimes you make your own bad luck.

 

Wilson being made of glass is a huge issue to us. We can't continue trying to nurse him through a season, it's far too much for Isak to cope with in this system.

 

Stick Tonali and Willock back in this squad and the Joelinton injuries don't happen. It's clear a few mistakes have been made (which club doesn't?) but I think people are far too quick to dismiss the freak injury situation we've seen. Add the demands of the CL's and expected cup runs in, we were always going to be worse off this season. We're still a very good team, we just have far too many key players out to show it every week.

 

 

Edited February 8 by Shearergol

[AyeDubbleYoo]

23 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

There are hard facts behind expectations. Our net spend is something like top 5 in Europe since the takeover. The squad cost is in the top 8 in the league. Our wage bill is top 8 in the league.

 

It's not made up out of thin air.

 

We are not a top team. That much is clear. But we've invested enough - smartly - to be a good team.

And we are a good team. We’re just not a team that can have all their best players injured and still qualify for the Champions League. 

[Optimistic Nut]

28 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Maybe so.

 

But we've built the squad pretty well. It has gaps but it has quality too.

 

I think the management of the injuries (by management and medical staff, and a lack of nous around the Tonali transfer) is a big factor in our mess. I don't want to litigate it again but players have been run into the ground, brought back too early, overloaded, poorly assessed etc. I think we handled Joelinton terribly. He kept coming back, picking up injuries until he got a season ender. Isak & Wilson, Gordon, Schar have all played injured at points. Sometimes you make your own bad luck.

 

So we've got the 8th or 9th best squad in your view, we've got the 8th-9th largest wage bill, surely there shouldn't be much stick or even hints of criticism to a manager who has had that team around at least 9th pretty much all season, with 1/4 of the squad missing for a huge chunk of it.

 

 

Edited February 8 by Optimistic Nut

[Dr.Spaceman]

Logic

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

Logic

It'll never catch on with some

[STM]

Still blaming Ashworth for not having access to Tonalis phone I see. 

 

Fuck me. They should know though.... they should just know... somehow. 

[The College Dropout]

46 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

Wilson being made of glass is a huge issue to us. We can't continue trying to nurse him through a season, it's far too much for Isak to cope with in this system.

 

Stick Tonali and Willock back in this squad and the Joelinton injuries don't happen. It's clear a few mistakes have been made (which club doesn't?) but I think people are far too quick to dismiss the freak injury situation we've seen. Add the demands of the CL's and expected cup runs in, we were always going to be worse off this season. We're still a very good team, we just have far too many key players out to show it every week.

 

 

 

We've not dealt with either Isak or Wilson well. Wilson came back before he was ready. Same with Isak. They are picking up as many injuries as each other.

 

Willock was mismanaged. Tonali we got got - plain and simple. Anyone that gets got like that you have to question but at the same time it's understandable. And Joelinton was mismanaged.

 

Aye these things happen. Not the end of the world. But it's not just bad luck.

 

@Optimistic Nut

 

 

In my view, we should finish 7th.

 

Chelsea are horrendously run club. I expect West Ham to go deep in Europe and I think we have a better manager. We've invested more than Brighton. We should finish above them all.

 

Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs, Man U - they will and should finish above us.

 

7th is par for me. 8th if Chelsea somehow clicks into gear. Any less is an underperformance. I'm not a doom-and-gloom merchant. We have a good manager, we've invested a lot in recent years and we've invested well. 

34 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

So we've got the 8th or 9th best squad in your view, we've got the 8th-9th largest wage bill, surely there shouldn't be much stick or even hints of criticism to a manager who has had that team around at least 9th pretty much all season, with 1/4 of the squad missing for a huge chunk of it.

 

 

 

[The College Dropout]

15 minutes ago, STM said:

Still blaming Ashworth for not having access to Tonalis phone I see. 

 

Fuck me. They should know though.... they should just know... somehow. 

If the situation was in the England camp. I don't think we would've been had. We've got players, coaches and connections to the setup. We would've heard whispers.

 

I can't prove it but I'm certain AC Milan and Juve knew it was coming. Which means people were talking. They palmed the players off to rich foreign clubs who weren't itk.

[The College Dropout]

51 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

And we are a good team. We’re just not a team that can have all their best players injured and still qualify for the Champions League. 

Who expects us to qualify for the CL?

[Shearergol]

13 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We've not dealt with either Isak or Wilson well. Wilson came back before he was ready. Same with Isak. They are picking up as many injuries as each other.

 

Willock was mismanaged. Tonali we got got - plain and simple. Anyone that gets got like that you have to question but at the same time it's understandable. And Joelinton was mismanaged.

 

Aye these things happen. Not the end of the world. But it's not just bad luck.

 

@Optimistic Nut

 

 

In my view, we should finish 7th.

 

Chelsea are horrendously run club. I expect West Ham to go deep in Europe and I think we have a better manager. We've invested more than Brighton. We should finish above them all.

 

Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs, Man U - they will and should finish above us.

 

7th is par for me. 8th if Chelsea somehow clicks into gear. Any less is an underperformance. I'm not a doom-and-gloom merchant. We have a good manager, we've invested a lot in recent years and we've invested well. 

 

Well quite, can't argue with this one. Perhaps we're missing that squad depth where a young healthy striker can come in for each of them?

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Shearergol said:

 

Well quite, can't argue with this one. Perhaps we're missing that squad depth where a young healthy striker can come in for each of them?

How many teams have 3 strikers? Isak, Wilson and Gordon as backup is as good as the league has IMO. 

 

That's fine. But I think we are missing 1 CM or winger. 1 of those free's up Joelinton's role. As soon as Willock & Tonali went out, Joelinton was a full-time CM. Then Barnes out. Gordon is a full-time LW. If we had 1 more winger option, we could mix up Gordon's minutes upfront and give him some more rest even with the injuries and suspensions. 

 

IMO Murphy should have the Ritchie role but one that can actually be used.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

28 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Who expects us to qualify for the CL?

 

I'm not saying anyone expects it, but there seems to be a feeling that this season has been disappointing and that we should be higher.

[Shearergol]

11 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

How many teams have 3 strikers? Isak, Wilson and Gordon as backup is as good as the league has IMO. 

 

That's fine. But I think we are missing 1 CM or winger. 1 of those free's up Joelinton's role. As soon as Willock & Tonali went out, Joelinton was a full-time CM. Then Barnes out. Gordon is a full-time LW. If we had 1 more winger option, we could mix up Gordon's minutes upfront and give him some more rest even with the injuries and suspensions. 

 

IMO Murphy should have the Ritchie role but one that can actually be used.

 

How many have 2 strikers where one of them is almost always injured these days?

[huss9]

2 hours ago, Geogaddi said:

I don't remember Benitez getting much stick at all, I think Benitez could have finished rock bottom with zero points and still got no stick as he won the champions league 20 years ago and all the stick would have been directed at Ashley. Howe has received more stick than Benitez ever did which is absolute madness really considering he has done a far far better job for us than Benitez did.

 

 

 

benitez never got much stick in the stadium at all - the odd one i recall re his negative style.

but as mentioed we could have finiched bottom and i would have loved him just for making me care again.

 

again howe personally hasnt had any stick - more along the "chanhe something" shouts rather than direct stick.

 

online abuse is a different beast though

[The College Dropout]

16 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

How many have 2 strikers where one of them is almost always injured these days?

He's not though. Like I said, he was brought back early. Played 90 minutes again and again until injured. He's as injured as often as Isak. 

 

19 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I'm not saying anyone expects it, but there seems to be a feeling that this season has been disappointing and that we should be higher.

We've lost 7 out of the last 12. Including some bad results against relegation-level teams. People are going to be disappointed. At a point in time, we looked well placed to finish in Europe. Now it feels like an uphill battle. Finishing between Brighton and Wolves would be a disappointment. 

 

If we finish 6th and qualify for Europa. Most people would be delighted. If we finish 7th and go to Conference most people would be happy.

 

I've mentioned this several times. Eales seems to think Europe is a good and realistic target. If Howe achieves that, I think everyone is at least content.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

This one game a week gives us far too much time to chat

[Cronky]

The main areas of debate seem to be whether players have been unwisely rushed back from injury, and whether Eddie should have used his subs bench more. 

 

The first issue isn't a matter of science - there's always an element of risk, and we're really not in a position to say whether Eddie and/or the medical staff have gone too far. Personally, I think Eddie tends to err on the side of caution, compared to other managers. His own playing career was ruined by a return from injury that turned out to be premature.

 

Our subs bench has looked very weak over the last few weeks, there's no question of that. There's a case for saying he should have used Tino or Hall more, but they're both inexperienced and it's not as though we have a first team full of stars that can compensate. Eddie relies a lot on team-work, and he has a way of holding players back until they're fully integrated into his systems. Bruno and Gordon struggled to get starts at first, and now look at them.

 

The main voices questioning Eddie seem to emanate from the Metropolitan media. Because we're owned by the Saudis and have reached the Champions League, the journos are expecting our owners to react as though we were Man City. The expectations that should exist with our current squad are entirely different. 

 

Eddie has brains and balls in abundance and we could not be in better hands IMO.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Also we don’t know if players have been rushed back and we don’t know if rotating in random kids would have made any difference whatsoever.