Eddie Howe

[Holmesy]

6 minutes ago, Zero said:

 

I would say Burn could have occasionally played CB and let Botman rest on the bench, and then free up LB position for Tino/Hall

Yeah I know, hindsight stuff. Still there were posts suggesting this back in December.  

 

I think there were posts suggesting it even further back than that. At times it has felt like stubbornness was the only thing stopping him from doing it because it blatantly wasn’t working - conceding 3 goals per game is absurd!

Who knows, maybe he just wants to see a couple of top Geordie lads living out their dreams before they’re moved on for better players. I would say there’s no room for sentiment in football but it would at least make sense of the situation and I could get on board with it more if that was the case. 

[The Prophet]

3 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Yes I am. The former cost us a lot of goals in a very poor run, and Longstaff needs no explanation. We haven’t necessarily had the players available to swap out Longstaff until now, but with Burn the performances from Tino and now Hall (and then Burn being a rock at CB last night) raise legitimate questions about Eddie’s decision making.

 

Personally, I feel it's more complex than having "favourites", granted all managers have players they trust and will depend on.

 

It was only circa ten months ago Longstaff was seen as an indispensable part of the first eleven, mainly because we had no other players who could play that RCM role. His form has undoubtedly been poor, but we've lost his replacement for the entire season and aren't exactly flush with options beyond that, particularly with injuries to Joelinton and until recently Willock and Anderson. Miley, Bruno and Longstaff is all we had for a long period of the season.

 

Burn is a bit more frustrating. By all accounts he retains his place because of his leadership, height and ability to tuck into a back three. Personally I think the attributes Livramento brings, such as one on one defending and ability going forward mitigated that. He is returning from a serious injury lay off though and has said himself, he's played more football than expected this season. Other than that Targett has been injured and by all accounts, Hall has been a work in progress. 

[The Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

Was this planned for? Or the result of the other freak injuries biting 5hough? Would Willock have been rushed back if Tonali wasn’t banned and Joelinton and Anderson didn’t have their own issues. Is it too difficult to realise that there's nuance and that factors outside of the managers control effect things within his sphere of influence?

 

Basically you can tell an awful lot of folks never have to make decisions or deal with ambiguity in their own work lives or there'd be a hell of a lot more empathy for Howe this year.

 

Like I said, there's a different debate to be had there, which I'm not keen on having as it's been done to death.

 

Personally I don't think Howe has been flawless this season, but the mitigating circumstances are such that it's impossible not to have sympathy for him.

 

I'll go back to my black and white life now.

[Thumbheed]

14 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I think there were posts suggesting it even further back than that. At times it has felt like stubbornness was the only thing stopping him from doing it because it blatantly wasn’t working - conceding 3 goals per game is absurd!

Who knows, maybe he just wants to see a couple of top Geordie lads living out their dreams before they’re moved on for better players. I would say there’s no room for sentiment in football but it would at least make sense of the situation and I could get on board with it more if that was the case. 

 

Think it's more to do with tactics.

 

Drop Burn and you can't push Trippier further up the pitch (where he's very influential) and have 3 sat at the back, which changes the entire dynamic of the team.  

 

Replace Longstaff with who? Miley? For how long? Is it the best way to manage a 17 year old?

[Holmesy]

11 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Personally, I feel it's more complex than having "favourites", granted all managers have players they trust and will depend on.

 

It was only circa ten months ago Longstaff was seen as an indispensable part of the first eleven, mainly because we had no other players who could play that RCM role. His form has undoubtedly been poor, but we've lost his replacement for the entire season and aren't exactly flush with options beyond that, particularly with injuries to Joelinton and until recently Willock and Anderson. Miley, Bruno and Longstaff is all we had for a long period of the season.

 

Burn is a bit more frustrating. By all accounts he retains his place because of his leadership, height and ability to tuck into a back three. Personally I think the attributes Livramento brings, such as one on one defending and ability going forward mitigated that. He is returning from a serious injury lay off though and has said himself, he's played more football than expected this season. Other than that Targett has been injured and by all accounts, Hall has been a work in progress. 

All fair points.

The Burn one feels a bit like he’s trying to be too clever and not wanting to back down. The concept of having a CB who drops into a back 3 is ok - it works for City and Arsenal but the difference is they’re not doing it with the slowest player in the PL. They’re executing it with mobile CBs who could feasibly play as conventional full backs if they wanted to. We’re shoe-horning a guy who isn’t suited to the position in any way into the position and making ourselves defensively vulnerable in the process. If we weren’t shipping 3 goals a game, it would be harder to argue against. 

The Lewis Hall thing has just been baffling to be honest. I understand he’s a work in progress but when you’re watching your setup ship relegation levels of goals, there’s no risk to trying something different. 
I’ll never understand his mentality through that run of games and I hope it never repeats, but if we end the season in the European places, hopefully we can just put it behind us a bad chapter and a learning experience. 

 

 

Edited April 3 by Holmesy

[Holmesy]

1 minute ago, Thumbheed said:

 

Think it's more to do with tactics.

 

Drop Burn and you can't push Trippier further up the pitch (where he's very influential) and have 3 sat at the back, which changes the entire dynamic of the team.  

 

Replace Longstaff with who? Miley? For how long? Is it the best way to manage a 17 year old?

I don’t think I buy the Trippier argument -each time he’s been forced to play two actual fullbacks we looked more balanced and more effective as a team. 

[Lush Vlad]

This is going to sound like it's reactionary based on last night.  But I think I've mentioned it a few times on here and others have.  But we are really bad at building from the back in possession.  I'd love to see that as the next step in our development and evolution under Howe next season.  

 

Teams have worked out to stop the pass into Bruno.  Meaning we struggle to move the ball up the pitch along the deck.  As he's the only real technician in the midfield capable of retaining  possession under pressure and progressing it upfield.  We then often rely on Schar spotting a diagonal or when Trippier is playing, managing to break the lines with a sharp pass into feet.  But all too often, we just slowly pass the ball along between the CB's, Dubs sometimes getting involved and sometimes we go out to the full backs, who never seem to have a decent option ahead of them.  It never looks like we're close to working an opening or setting something up.  It's all really ponderous and laboured.   

 

Again, injuries, fatigue and then more recently, constant, enforced shuffling of players hasn't helped at all.  There were actually some flashes last night with Murphy coming off the wing, Bruno when he found space, Anderson, Hall and Barnes all linked up well down the left at times, too.  So that is promising.  But I would like to see us go after players in the transfer market who are more technically sound and not just a team full of athletes who keep breaking down for whatever reason.  Whether that is because they're bodies aren't up to playing in the system, the system isn't fit for purpose for a long season, training methods, the medical team, bad luck or all of the above.  

 

I often look at players we are linked with and think 'wouldn't suit our system.  Not a Howe player.'  But I'm now starting to lean the other way.  Howe has spoken about wanting more control over games and more possession this season.  So for example, a player like Smith-Rowe, injuries aside.  Would be a much better use of finances than someone like Onana, who I thought was atrocious last night and is terrible on the ball. 

 

I don't specifically mean those two players BTW.  Just using a couple of examples that sprung to mind as we have been linked with them multiple times. 

[The Prophet]

Ironically, earlier in the season, it felt like building from the back was one of the things we'd improved at most. 

[Magpie]

Interesting 

 

https://twitter.com/bendinnery/status/1775431949621805260?s=46&t=CRVDoC05Fds07k8Kbn-wdg

[PauloGeordio]

1 minute ago, Magpie said:

Interesting 

 

https://twitter.com/bendinnery/status/1775431949621805260?s=46&t=CRVDoC05Fds07k8Kbn-wdg

1.“Intensity is our identity” training methods/medical staff/physios.

2.Big Six Voodoo with chicken bones and pin cushions.

3.Bad luck.

4.Who fucking knows.

5.I’m now numb to this shit! 

Im all in on 5!  

[Thumbheed]

34 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I don’t think I buy the Trippier argument -each time he’s been forced to play two actual fullbacks we looked more balanced and more effective as a team. 

 

We qualified for the CL with the tactic 'you don't buy'. 

[The Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Magpie said:

Interesting 

 

https://twitter.com/bendinnery/status/1775431949621805260?s=46&t=CRVDoC05Fds07k8Kbn-wdg

 

Am I reading this wrong? It doesn't feel like we had that many injuries last season.

[Thumbheed]

20 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

This is going to sound like it's reactionary based on last night.  But I think I've mentioned it a few times on here and others have.  But we are really bad at building from the back in possession.  I'd love to see that as the next step in our development and evolution under Howe next season.  

 

Teams have worked out to stop the pass into Bruno.  Meaning we struggle to move the ball up the pitch along the deck.  As he's the only real technician in the midfield capable of retaining  possession under pressure and progressing it upfield.  We then often rely on Schar spotting a diagonal or when Trippier is playing, managing to break the lines with a sharp pass into feet.  But all too often, we just slowly pass the ball along between the CB's, Dubs sometimes getting involved and sometimes we go out to the full backs, who never seem to have a decent option ahead of them.  It never looks like we're close to working an opening or setting something up.  It's all really ponderous and laboured.   

 

Again, injuries, fatigue and then more recently, constant, enforced shuffling of players hasn't helped at all.  There were actually some flashes last night with Murphy coming off the wing, Bruno when he found space, Anderson, Hall and Barnes all linked up well down the left at times, too.  So that is promising.  But I would like to see us go after players in the transfer market who are more technically sound and not just a team full of athletes who keep breaking down for whatever reason.  Whether that is because they're bodies aren't up to playing in the system, the system isn't fit for purpose for a long season, training methods, the medical team, bad luck or all of the above.  

 

I often look at players we are linked with and think 'wouldn't suit our system.  Not a Howe player.'  But I'm now starting to lean the other way.  Howe has spoken about wanting more control over games and more possession this season.  So for example, a player like Smith-Rowe, injuries aside.  Would be a much better use of finances than someone like Onana, who I thought was atrocious last night and is terrible on the ball. 

 

I don't specifically mean those two players BTW.  Just using a couple of examples that sprung to mind as we have been linked with them multiple times. 

He made a point about how Man City players were so good at working the ball in tight spaces so for me that's at least a great sign of him recognising the sort of qualities that make a team great. 

 

I'm hoping it's at the forefront of his recruitment strategy.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

We qualified for the CL with the tactic 'you don't buy'. 

And it was great while it lasted. But it doesn’t work now. Whether we’ve been found out, the fixture congestion has fucked all of our players, Joelinton being injured etc. 

People keep pointing to last season. Last season isn’t this season. We have the 5th worst defence in the league. That’s the reality! 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

And it was great while it lasted. But it doesn’t work now. Whether we’ve been found out, the fixture congestion has fucked all of our players, Joelinton being injured etc. 

People keep pointing to last season. Last season isn’t this season. We have the 5th worst defence in the league. That’s the reality! 

Injury crisis anything to do with it? 

[Kid Icarus]

17 minutes ago, Magpie said:

Interesting 

 

https://twitter.com/bendinnery/status/1775431949621805260?s=46&t=CRVDoC05Fds07k8Kbn-wdg

None of this really means anything without context and what the numbers mean anyway, but I don't see how last season is higher and this season is pretty average. This season has been at a level I haven't seen before anywhere, never mind at Newcastle and under Howe.

 

 

Edited April 3 by Kid Icarus

[STM]

2 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

And it was great while it lasted. But it doesn’t work now. Whether we’ve been found out, the fixture congestion has fucked all of our players, Joelinton being injured etc. 

People keep pointing to last season. Last season isn’t this season. We have the 5th worst defence in the league. That’s the reality! 

 

Absolute nonsense. "Being found out". 

 

Funny how Peps sides haven't been found out after 15 years. Everyone knows what Peps sides are going to do, they are just too good to stop.

 

Last season we were fortunate with injuries. This season we've been very unfortunate.

[Holmesy]

15 minutes ago, STM said:

 

Absolute nonsense. "Being found out". 

 

Funny how Peps sides haven't been found out after 15 years. Everyone knows what Peps sides are going to do, they are just too good to stop.

 

Last season we were fortunate with injuries. This season we've been very unfortunate.

Pep has constantly evolved his teams and ways of executing his plan throughout his entire career. His Man City team now looks nothing like his dominant Barca team for example. It’s such a poor reference mate. You’ve literally done the opposite of what you thought you were doing by referencing Pep. 
We’ve seen the need to evolve this season because what worked last season is a point of vulnerability this season. Injuries will have played a part for sure, but you have to adapt your system to the personnel you have available, right?

 

 

Edited April 3 by Holmesy

[STM]

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

Pep has constantly evolved his teams and ways of executing his plan throughout his entire career. His Man City team now looks nothing like his dominant Barca team for example. It’s such a poor reference mate. You’ve literally done the opposite of what you thought you were doing. 
We’ve seen the need to evolve this season because what worked last season is a point of vulnerability this season. Injuries will have played a part for sure, but you have to adapt your system to the personnel you have available, right?

 

Peps sides have evolved? They play virtually the exact same way man. Seldom have I seen Pep sit back and hoof it long. 

 

Good managers don't make negotiations on their system. 

 

Honestly, you haven't a clue what you are talking about. 

[Holmesy]

3 minutes ago, STM said:

 

Peps sides have evolved? They play virtually the exact same way man. Seldom have I seen Pep sit back and hoof it long. 

 

Good managers don't make negotiations on their system. 

 

Honestly, you haven't a clue what you are talking about. 

You clearly have the expert’s eye, STM. Quite the analyst.

[STM]

Just now, Holmesy said:

You clearly have the expert’s eye, STM. Quite the analyst.

 

I'm not the one schooling Eddie Howe on a football forum. 

[80]

26 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Am I reading this wrong? It doesn't feel like we had that many injuries last season.

Don't know for sure about that data, but we had quite a few injuries last season.

 

Big difference was a) they were very well-timed e.g. Wilson returning from injury the very same week as Isak getting injured, and b) they were less severe - 6 weeks rather than 6 months. That data references incidences rather than severity. Would be interesting to compare minutes lost to injury across seasons.

 

We definitely were very lucky with injuries last season, but we've paid for it in spades this time around. I'm truly open minded on why that is. People understandably say lots of them were freak occurrences, but you're more likely to be harmed by an event if you're deconditioned, too.

[Kid Icarus]

 

Narrator: it was not a better metric 

[Zero]

Pretty sure Pep did not exploit the half space that much during his Barca era. He kinda completed his work at Man City. 

[Holmesy]

7 minutes ago, Zero said:

Pretty sure Pep did not exploit the half space that much during his Barca era. He kinda completed his work at Man City. 

 good luck!