Hughesy Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I was very much against the Wissa signing at £55m. Woltemade sounded pretty exciting as a prospect. That said, it wasn’t like there were loads of good strikers who moved last summer who we missed out on that we didn’t try to buy. In fact, I’m not sure there were any. Even now, you look at the strikers around, it’s quite hard to see obvious targets. Clearly there must be someone half decent somewhere, but there does seem to be dearth of good forwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, Alberto2005 said: Ill re-phrase it then, our performances in the league this season have been on the whole rubbish. That's nothing to do with ceilings, we've got enough quality in the squad to be performing far better and that's on Eddie unfortunately. I'd say that last part is debatable. We lack quality in the squad overall, especially without Tonali, Bruno and Miley. Certainly the type of quality that's about retaining possession and getting on top of teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Joel Inton Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, dcmk said: Aka: Pay and play. Here's another article for you, try and read this one. And same author believe it not. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/callum-wilsons-newcastle-united-contract-31724452 Headline: Callum Wilson's Newcastle United contract talks explained as Leeds lurk amid 'pay as you play' offer So, no. An incentivised deal is not necessarily a pay as you play deal. As I said earlier, that you’ve ignored, we offered him a lower base salary than he was on before with incentives based on appearances. You also conveniently ignored the article shared that stated Howe was keen to retain Wilson. FYI, the club were not. Hence why they’d only offer the terms outlined above. If it was solely down to Howe, he’d have got a 1-year contract extension on his existing terms. But I won’t hang my hat on that, as that is knowledge based on “ITKery”. I’ve tried to support your understanding on this one, but will leave it here tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, Hughesy said: I was very much against the Wissa signing at £55m. Woltemade sounded pretty exciting as a prospect. That said, it wasn’t like there were loads of good strikers who moved last summer who we missed out on that we didn’t try to buy. In fact, I’m not sure there were any. Even now, you look at the strikers around, it’s quite hard to see obvious targets. Clearly there must be someone half decent somewhere, but there does seem to be dearth of good forwards. Delap is probably the obvious one this summer. If Chelsea get rid, which is sounding more and more likely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sir Joel Inton said: An incentivised deal is not necessarily a pay as you play deal. As I said earlier, that you’ve ignored, we offered him a lower base salary than he was on before with incentives based on appearances. You also conveniently ignored the article shared that stated Howe was keen to retain Wilson. FYI, the club were not. Hence why they’d only offer the terms outlined above. If it was solely down to Howe, he’d have got a 1-year contract extension on his existing terms. But I won’t hang my hat on that, as that is knowledge based on “ITKery”. I’ve tried to support your understanding on this one, but will leave it here tonight. your kidding right.. Not to mention all his other articles plainly explain "pay and play', he's actually pretty consistent on this. Howe gave some quotes about Wilson, being complimentary but also explaining the club's limitations and PSR as well as Wilson's quest for game time, but now you're spinning as "so keen" to stay Edited March 22 by dcmk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 5 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: I'd say that last part is debatable. We lack quality in the squad overall, especially without Tonali, Bruno and Miley. Certainly the type of quality that's about retaining possession and getting on top of teams. I'm talking about coming above Sunderland, Fulham, Brentford, Everton etc. We've got Livramento/Hall - One is who will go to City for 60-70m and the other who is top class. Bruno G/Tonali - Two quality CMs Gordon - England's starting LW Who have those teams got seriously? Everton have N'Diaye that's about it. Edited March 22 by Alberto2005 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I don’t think he’s tactically good enough and was again outsmarted today. One dimensional and the defending is some of the worst I’ve seen in 40 years. Today we seen our midfield outclassed, he’s spent a fucking fortune and think Xhaka, Rigg, Sadiki and Le Fee looked far more accomplished, creative on the ball than anything we had. Let that sink in, we spent 40 million on a Villa reserve in the summer, our 2nd most expensive midfielder ever and he’s bang average. He’s wasted over 200 million in the summer and not one signing has improved our starting 11. Today was unforgivable and most could see it coming a mile off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Joel Inton Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 2 minutes ago, dcmk said: your kidding right.. Not to mention all his other articles plainly explain "pay and play', he's actually pretty consistent on this. “Pay as you play” = no base salary, an income solely based on appearances, with the ability to terminate it for free. Wilson’s offer = a contract for 1 year, base salary which increased based on number of appearances as well as having higher than usual appearance fees. Would cost to terminate. Edited March 22 by Sir Joel Inton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-421 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 9 minutes ago, nufcjmc said: Exactly the injury was a bad one but he "returned" mid December one small reported setback from training so hes been available for selection for over 3 months and we are now playing a winger who fancies himself as a striker instead of him. But as I said above, he's not been given a decent 'run' in the side since he came back from that injury. Just looked on NUFC.com, and I think the most he got was 2 games in a row starting. All others it was him or woltemade starting up top. Only once in that initial period (Bournemouth at home in the cup) did EH start/play them together. That wont have helped his progress, and getting used to playing in the side and them playing with him. Not excusing lack of effort and stuff when he has come on, but it won't have helped him. And again, we are where we are.... two expensive, confidence shot forwards either on the bench or playing out of position, with a left winger up top, because arguably the two expensive forwards have been mis-managed (once both available), to a degree. Edited March 22 by TK-421 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 If it was me I would've just kept playing Woltemade but I don't have the pressure of managing a PL team for real. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sir Joel Inton said: “Pay as you play” = no base salary, an income solely based on appearances, with the ability to terminate it for free. Wilson’s offer = a contract for 1 year, base salary which increased based on number of appearances as well as having higher than usual appearance fees. Would cost to terminate. You are imagining this base salary. You haven't provided any sources at all about it. Only sources out there is about an offer as a pay as you play deal that may or may not have been offered to his reps. As a token gesture. Edited March 22 by dcmk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: If it was me I would've just kept playing Woltemade but I don't have the pressure of managing a PL team for real. It would help if our wide players weren't an absolute disgrace when it comes to providing our strikers with service. Woltemade got little to none after November and he's been scapegoated since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milburn Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: If it was me I would've just kept playing Woltemade but I don't have the pressure of managing a PL team for real. He could still stick with Woltemade, just not in this setup. Playing him as a lone striker without pace or aggressive runners around him is setting him up to fail. He needs a system built around his strengths, not isolation. But that’s the issue. Everything comes back to Howe’s rigid love for 4-3-3. There’s very little flexibility. You look at someone like Emery, who seems to have 200 different ways of setting a team up depending on the opponent. That kind of adaptability is what we’re missing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Joel Inton Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, dcmk said: You are imagining this base salary. You haven't provided any sources at all about it. Only sources out there about an offer is a potential pay as you play offer to his reps. I’ve explained this to you multiple times now. It’s reported as an incentivised deal. The article I shared earlier reported it to you in that way. His current West Ham contract is a base salary and incentivised through appearances too But what do I know, dcmk knows loads more than that. We’ll end this here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Carlito said: It would help if our wide players weren't an absolute disgrace when it comes to providing our strikers with service. Woltemade got little to none after November and he's been scapegoated since. I rate Woltemade. But to say he's been scapegoated is BS. When he's been playing as the striker he is usually never in the box when the ball comes in. It's much more noticeable when it's been flashed across the goalmouth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Sir Joel Inton said: I’ve explained this to you multiple times now. It’s reported as an incentivised deal. The article I shared earlier reported it to you in that way. His current West Ham contract is a base salary and incentivised through appearances too But what do I know, dcmk knows loads more than that. We’ll end this here. Literally no sources for your version of events, and all the other articles by that particular author talks about a pay as you play contract offer. And that's widely reported elsewhere. It's incentivised because by the nature of the contract you only get paid for appearances and goals. Should be obvious why those deals would be incentivised. Edited March 22 by dcmk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 The fact Bruno is our highest goal scorer in the PL highlights our problem this season. We've not the ability to kill games. 22 points lost from a winning position. We'd be second. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Joel Inton Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 18 minutes ago, dcmk said: Literally no sources for this, and all the other articles by that author talks about just a pay as you play contract offer. Not to mention it's been widely reported elsewhere. Last try Ever heard of this Ornstein fella? Think he has his finger on the pulse a bit… https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5771041/2025/08/02/callum-wilson-transfer-west-ham/ “The 33-year-old, who was won nine England caps, left Newcastle at the end of his contract on June 30 after the north east club decided against taking up the option to extend his deal. The parties held talks about a new contract that would have been slightly more incentive-based, but could not reach an agreement.” If going from a 60k a week contract to a straight pay as you play deal can be described as “slightly more incentive-based”, then yeah, you’re absolutely right. Although I think that would be the understatement of the year. Fwiw his West Ham contract is a £6k base salary and incentives up to £60k depending on appearances. We offered more than that as a base but lower overall in incentives, which were harder to achieve (i.e. he had to start or play more minutes to achieve than what he needed to do at West Ham). He rejected it as he expected more and better offers but never got them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Sir Joel Inton said: Last try Ever heard of this Ornstein fella? Think he has his finger on the pulse a bit… https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5771041/2025/08/02/callum-wilson-transfer-west-ham/ “The 33-year-old, who was won nine England caps, left Newcastle at the end of his contract on June 30 after the north east club decided against taking up the option to extend his deal. The parties held talks about a new contract that would have been slightly more incentive-based, but could not reach an agreement.” If going from a 60k a week contract to a straight pay as you play deal can be described as “slightly more incentive-based”, then yeah, you’re absolutely right. Although I think that would be the understatement of the year. Fwiw his West Ham contract is a £6k base salary and incentives up to £60k depending on appearances. We offered more than that as a base but lower overall in incentives, which were harder to achieve (i.e. he had to start or play more minutes to achieve than what he needed to do at West Ham). He rejected it as he expected more and better offers but never got them. You bring out this source that basically backs up my point? His West Ham deal is a pay as you play deal. He nearly left in January as wasn't getting enough gametime to make it worth it for him. And our offer was worse than that. We didn't want him - it was likely a token offer as we knew he was desperate for first team football. Edited March 22 by dcmk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Joel Inton Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Okay at the point you try to tell me we offer contracts to players we don’t want, as token gestures, you may as well go off thinking you’re right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Sir Joel Inton said: Okay at the point you try to tell me we offer contracts to players we don’t want, as token gestures, you may as well go off thinking you’re right. I mean.. your argument falls apart considering the guy accepted a pay as you play deal at West Ham. We offered a worse pay as you play deal. Doesn't sound like a big part of our plan for this season like you would have everyone believing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) I'd be banned if I posted Quote me when I have a Geordie Josy barnet. Only then will I give my opinion (make sure to like, and subscribe) Edited March 22 by TBG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Maybe one of the Howe outers could do what the Man Utd fella is doing and similarly grow their barnets until the aim is achieved. Get some media coverage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 hours ago, Decky said: He's said this about himself before which worries me. It wasn't that long ago and he's already let himself down again. He does sound like someone apologising to the wife after pissing the bed again after yet another night on the terps, having told her he wouldn’t do it again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 47 minutes ago, duo said: The fact Bruno is our highest goal scorer in the PL highlights our problem this season. We've not the ability to kill games. 22 points lost from a winning position. We'd be second. I didn’t know that. Fuck. Feels very ‘John Barnes as top scorer’ territory. We were shit and had a cup run that year too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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