TheBrownBottle Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Optimistic Nut said: Other than possibly commercially, there's nothing. Number of supporters does count for something. edit: so do commercials. They’re huge commercially despite their trophy winning slowing down. Sponsors don’t pay money for nowt. Edited December 17, 2023 by TheBrownBottle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: By what metric are Man U the biggest club in the world btw ? Popularity - I lived in London 20 years, Yorkshire 4 years and now Leicester 3 years and there’s a lot more Man U fans around than Newcastle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Gawalls said: This is still Man U - don’t be so arrogant, if they did come in for him they have every chance of getting him. I don't think it'd arrogance to suggest there's also a fair chance they won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Just now, The Prophet said: I don't think it'd arrogance to suggest there's also a fair chance they won't. Don’t want to argue on a Sunday morning but your phrase was “he’s in the biggest project - not going to happen” and that read as a little arrogant that’s all. I’d say there’s a rare chance they’ll get him but a bigger chance he’ll stay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Gawalls said: Don’t want to argue on a Sunday morning but your phrase was “he’s in the biggest project - not going to happen” and that read as a little arrogant that’s all. I’d say there’s a rare chance they’ll get him but a bigger chance he’ll stay. I don't think it was me who said that, in fact I missed it all together Agree with the gist though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I didn’t say they are, but the argument exists. In terms of supporters etc. They were England’s biggest club when Liverpool were the most successful. If trophies are what defines how big a club is, then we’re about the 40th biggest club in England in the last half century It’s a genuine question. By what metric are they the biggest club in the world? 6 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said: Other than possibly commercially, there's nothing. And that’s no longer the case. So what’s the argument? Worldwide support maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Column inches per game is probably metric that is used lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: It’s a genuine question. By what metric are they the biggest club in the world? And that’s no longer the case. So what’s the argument? Worldwide support maybe? Even based on Twitter followers (I know it's not a good example but at least you can get an idea), they're miles behind the Spanish two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: It’s a genuine question. By what metric are they the biggest club in the world? And that’s no longer the case. So what’s the argument? Worldwide support maybe? They’ve got the fourth highest turnover on the planet despite being mismanaged and not being remotely as successful recently as the clubs around them. I didn’t say they are the biggest club in the world - but they’re in the argument, and the only English club who would be. So you’re asking me to explain something which I didn’t say. But then I’m on a football forum where football fans are seriously asking whether or not Man Utd are potentially the world’s biggest club. I mean, fucking hell lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Not really arsed about debating something that none of us have any insider info on but I’d imagine Ashworth relishes projects with potential. Brighton had that, we have that. In a sense, Man U have that as they’ve performed well below their standards for years. However, people like him need to have a lot of control in order to be happy in their jobs. There’s no way you get to the standing Ashworth has in the game without being a complete control freak. I seriously doubt he’d able to have the same level of control at Man U as he does here and that’s probably the crux of it if you take out all the other arguments Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Newcastle is currently the best project in the world - the aim to make us the most successful club in the world. That's a much bigger challenge than that of Man U - Ashworth is going nowhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 1 minute ago, duo said: Newcastle is currently the best project in the world - the aim to make us the most successful club in the world. That's a much bigger challenge than that of Man U - Ashworth is going nowhere. So you think that Jim Radcliffe is paying seven times what PIF paid for us - and for a minority stake - but he has no interest in making Man Utd the world’s most successful club? Despite the fact that commercially they don’t have that much to do, they just need to be better run? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: They’ve got the fourth highest turnover on the planet despite being mismanaged and not being remotely as successful recently as the clubs around them. I didn’t say they are the biggest club in the world - but they’re in the argument, and the only English club who would be. So you’re asking me to explain something which I didn’t say. But then I’m on a football forum where football fans are seriously asking whether or not Man Utd are potentially the world’s biggest club. I mean, fucking hell lads. It’s not a personal dig mate. I just hear it all the time from the likes of Gary Neville - ‘Manchester United are the biggest club in the world’. And I always wonder - based on what? The difference between them and Liverpool is a bigger fanbase. As a fake madridista, I don’t see how Man U are close to Madrid. In my lifetime, they’ve never been considered a bigger club than Madrid. From Beckham to Ronaldo moving to Real has always been a step up. Yes by every metric they are one of the biggest 2 clubs in the UK. No doubt. But that biggest club in the world stuff has always annoyed me. It’s hyperbolic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) Back on topic. The Man U job certainly has greater prestige than us. But I think our project is more exciting. I believe the youth and women’s football stuff is excluded from FFP. So there’s just a blank canvas and cheque to build us up on that front. One set of our owners have the blank cheque, and the others seem like decent business people If he wants to join them good luck to him. Edited December 17, 2023 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 1 minute ago, The College Dropout said: It’s not a personal dig mate. I just hear it all the time from the likes of Gary Neville - ‘Manchester United are the biggest club in the world’. And I always wonder - based on what? The difference between them and Liverpool is a bigger fanbase. As a fake madridista, I don’t see how Man U are close to Madrid. In my lifetime, they’ve never been considered a bigger club than Madrid. From Beckham to Ronaldo moving to Real has always been a step up. Yes by every metric they are one of the biggest 2 clubs in the UK. No doubt. But that biggest club in the world stuff has always annoyed me. It’s hyperbolic. Apologies if it came across as my taking it as personal - it was more of a smiling shrug than an angry comment from me Man Utd are far bigger than any other club in England - and the UK is a meaningless metric, regardless of what the odd daft cunt north of the border thinks. It wasn’t hyperbole in the past - by shirt sales, by estimated supporter base etc - recent times have seen a slump. Perhaps if Man Utd got bailed out by iffy deals with the Spanish govt as Real often have been, they might be in a stronger position. Beckham’s move wasn’t seen as a step up - he’d fell out with Ferguson. Ronaldo grew up as a Real fan. Additionally, Madrid and Barcelona have been able to sustain themselves at the top table by taking a vastly greater share of footballing wealth from Spanish TV rights etc. They’re even more poisonous to Spanish football than the ‘Sky Six’ are in England. Travel around the globe, and see how many Man Utd ‘fans’ there are - and how many have heard of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geogaddi Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 As much as I hate them, Man United are still the biggest club in England so can see why he would be tempted by them , they will almost certainly be able to offer him a lot more money that we are currently paying him . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Apologies if it came across as my taking it as personal - it was more of a smiling shrug than an angry comment from me Man Utd are far bigger than any other club in England - and the UK is a meaningless metric, regardless of what the odd daft cunt north of the border thinks. It wasn’t hyperbole in the past - by shirt sales, by estimated supporter base etc - recent times have seen a slump. Perhaps if Man Utd got bailed out by iffy deals with the Spanish govt as Real often have been, they might be in a stronger position. Beckham’s move wasn’t seen as a step up - he’d fell out with Ferguson. Ronaldo grew up as a Real fan. Additionally, Madrid and Barcelona have been able to sustain themselves at the top table by taking a vastly greater share of footballing wealth from Spanish TV rights etc. They’re even more poisonous to Spanish football than the ‘Sky Six’ are in England. Travel around the globe, and see how many Man Utd ‘fans’ there are - and how many have heard of them. Like I said - by fanbase it is an argument. That’s because the PL is the biggest footballing brand. But even then - the popularity of Messi and Ronaldo and on pitch success has pushed Real and Barca right up there. Again, the only thing Man U have over Liverpool at this point is a bigger fanbase. Success, revenues, history etc. Liverpool are neck and neck or above. What makes them clear of Liverpool? It’s just fanbase and more commercial potential because of it. The biggest iffy Spanish deal was about 25 years ago when Real sold its training ground to the Madrid council for mega bucks and then it was leased back for pennies. Name the rest of the dodgy deals for Madrid? Again, the premier league is the biggest footballing brand. Real and Barca are scared to death of the PL and they pretty much consider it the super league. Despite taking the lion share of La Liga revenues, PL revenues dwarf them. That’s the biggest driver behind them wanting a ESL. Without it they will struggle to keep pace with the top PL teams. They’ve also changed the la liga model because they’ve realised La Liga needs to become more popular and better exported if they are to compete with the PL clubs. Even with all the PL money, there’s not a metric that they are bigger than Madrid. Im lucky enough to have been to north and South America, Africa and Asia. People love the premier league. People know our players and support a big 6 team and they know the league well. B they don’t know La Liga too well but they know the CL, Messi and Ronaldo, Real and Barca. Man U are the biggest club in the world but never sign the best player(s) in the world. Even Man City have done that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Like I said - by fanbase it is an argument. That’s because the PL is the biggest footballing brand. But even then - the popularity of Messi and Ronaldo and on pitch success has pushed Real and Barca right up there. Again, the only thing Man U have over Liverpool at this point is a bigger fanbase. Success, revenues, history etc. Liverpool are neck and neck or above. What makes them clear of Liverpool? It’s just fanbase and more commercial potential because of it. The biggest iffy Spanish deal was about 25 years ago when Real sold its training ground to the Madrid council for mega bucks and then it was leased back for pennies. Name the rest of the dodgy deals for Madrid? Again, the premier league is the biggest footballing brand. Real and Barca are scared to death of the PL and they pretty much consider it the super league. Despite taking the lion share of La Liga revenues, PL revenues dwarf them. That’s the biggest driver behind them wanting a ESL. Without it they will struggle to keep pace with the top PL teams. They’ve also changed the la liga model because they’ve realised La Liga needs to become more popular and better exported if they are to compete with the PL clubs. Even with all the PL money, there’s not a metric that they are bigger than Madrid. Im lucky enough to have been to north and South America, Africa and Asia. People love the premier league. People know our players and support a big 6 team and they know the league well. B they don’t know La Liga too well but they know the CL, Messi and Ronaldo, Real and Barca. Man U are the biggest club in the world but never sign the best player(s) in the world. Even Man City have done that. Man Utd’s status long pre-dates the relatively recent PL becoming the world’s biggest league. It’s a nonsense argument to suggest that Man Utd’s status is the result of the PL’s status. Of course it’s fan base which makes them bigger than Liverpool. Are NUFC bigger than Coventry or Luton or Wigan or Wimbledon? Those clubs have won more trophies in my lifetime. A well-run Man Utd is potentially the world’s biggest club. They’ve been hobbled by their own version of Ashley. Despite more equitable sharing of revenues, Man Utd still have a greater revenue than Barcelona and are only just short of Real’s, despite being hampered by those clowns who own them and recent failings. Man Utd’s commercial revenues are higher than any other club’s - despite not being successful in the elite club sense recently - because the Man Utd ‘brand’ is bigger than that of other clubs. They’re not propping Man Utd up so that Gary Neville can make unfounded claims on TV. Signing the best players in the world is meaningless in this - and Man City hasn’t done this either. The PL has had one world player of the year since the breakaway. It hasn’t stopped it becoming the world’s biggest and most watched league. It is an argument which is virtually impossible to ‘win’, which is why I said Man Utd are arguably the world’s biggest club (also potentially the world’s biggest club). The number of clubs in that argument can be counted on one hand. Bayern Munich sell more shirts than anyone else. Barcelona has more Twitter followers than them. Real Madrid has won more European Cups. And so on and so forth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLUMPO235 Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Real madrid are only a bigger club and draw due to the weather. If they were based in Norway, players and their wives would pick Barcelona or Manchester seems as there are no official rules in worlds biggest club, that’s a factor for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checko Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 I mean, if we're taking weather into account and are top players are still picking Manchester then surely that gives them the win? Personally though I think the only objective way to measure this is by having clubs' mascots fight each other to the death. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLUMPO235 Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Just now, Checko said: I mean, if we're taking weather into account and are top players are still picking Manchester then surely that gives them the win? Personally though I think the only objective way to measure this is by having clubs' mascots fight each other to the death. If a club doesn’t have a mascot, instant disqualification?! match day catering cant be overlooked either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checko Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, FLUMPO235 said: If a club doesn’t have a mascot, instant disqualification?! match day catering cant be overlooked either. Damn right. You can't be the biggest club in the world without a sociopath as a mascot. Catering's a good shout. Most calories wins! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Geogaddi said: As much as I hate them, Man United are still the biggest club in England so can see why he would be tempted by them , they will almost certainly be able to offer him a lot more money that we are currently paying him . Why can they offer more money? I didn't think staff wages counted as part of FFP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, duo said: Why can they offer more money? I didn't think staff wages counted as part of FFP. They definitely do - it is/was one of the charges against Man City, paying Pellegrini (and others?) via various other companies/sponsors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 I’d be very surprised if he left given our project but I guess you never know ?♂️ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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