Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Some will only appreciate Ronaldo when he’s retired. No need to bring Messi up every single time we want to marvel at his achievements and ability. It’s like the tedium I find of debating Kane and Shearer. Kane’s the man, I don’t care about the rest. It might be weird but I really enjoy seeing an older player with diminishing powers continue to kill it. Some latter Big Al and Drogba days spring to mind and Ronny last year. f***ed off Bayern, Atleti and Juve while he’s physically in decline ffs. Being a declining force and scoring something like 8 goals from the CL QF’s onwards. I think a lot of casual fans simply don’t recognise what makes Ronaldo so good. His off the ball movement, anticipation/awareness and ability to create and find space in the box is the best I’ve ever seen from a forward. People actually use he scores so many ‘tap ins’ as a negative against him. Made all the more amazing in that he isn’t a CF or never was one. He was a winger, tall, lithe, quick feet, one trick pony, extremely talented, but never a world beater surely? He certainly become such a player. Mind people don’t realise how dedicated, focused and professional Messi is. He’s a machine in that sense. It would have been easy for him to live the life Ronaldo the original did, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo et al and still been great, but that’s not in his make up. He’s also extremely unselfish and one of the hardest working payers you will ever see. Both have been a joy to have watched and personally, to have seen live in person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 that’s a recentish thing and he STILL by a distance able to influence results more than almost any other player ever. He doesn’t have the supreme physical tools he once had. In 2 years hes become the most devastating no. 9 we’ve ever seen. Always felt Henry struggled big time with losing pace. Many do. He’s 33 and only The greatest footballer of all time is definitively ahead of him right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Some will only appreciate Ronaldo when he’s retired. No need to bring Messi up every single time we want to marvel at his achievements and ability. It’s like the tedium I find of debating Kane and Shearer. Kane’s the man, I don’t care about the rest. It might be weird but I really enjoy seeing an older player with diminishing powers continue to kill it. Some latter Big Al and Drogba days spring to mind and Ronny last year. f***ed off Bayern, Atleti and Juve while he’s physically in decline ffs. Being a declining force and scoring something like 8 goals from the CL QF’s onwards. I think a lot of casual fans simply don’t recognise what makes Ronaldo so good. His off the ball movement, anticipation/awareness and ability to create and find space in the box is the best I’ve ever seen from a forward. People actually use he scores so many ‘tap ins’ as a negative against him. Nah its a great skill but being a great poacher doesn't mean you're as good as Messi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraguy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 No need for me to say who I prefer but one thing I will say Ronaldo is the far better captain for club and country, how he motivated /gave them extra belief to some Portugal players was class leadership Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 No need for me to say who I prefer but one thing I will say Ronaldo is the far better captain for club and country, how he motivated /gave them extra belief to some Portugal players was class leadership You're basing that on him just jumping around in the Euros Final. Absolutely no evidence it made any impact Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Messi, probably more than Ronaldo, is reliant on having certain type and quality of players around him to be effective to his potential - or in other words to allow him play his game using a certain type of football. Arguably this is why he hasn't been as effective for Argentina. Ronaldo, as SAF once said, can play in any type of team. Just because his attributes are not as 'sexy' as Messi's, doesn't' mean that they're less important. There is also the notion that he's a spoiled tart and that Messi is this loveable computer kid person, which I'm sure is making some people biased. In my opinion they're both on a par, they're just different players. (One of them has a more 'desired' style of play and the other doesn't) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Isn't Messi v Ronaldo very much worthy of a thread? (unless i've forgotten that there is one) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Soo fucking boring.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraguy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Not at all he did it in a penalty shootout in the euro and gave a speech the other night to real players and then the euro final encouraging players to take people on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that's always been a myth, but it was a fair argument to an extent until recently because it was difficult to disprove. Messi dragged Argentina to the WC knockout stages and even more so with a hat-trick to get them to this year's WC. Barca are now nowhere near the team they were, but you can still guarantee that he'll be involved in their clutch moments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 When I saw Barca in their opener at home back in August Messi was clearly the best player on the pitch, but a lot of what he tried to do or wanted to do just didn’t come off because others weren’t on his wave length or as up to speed as he was. I’m not criticising him here, but Ronaldo can do his thing regardless of whether his team mates are on his wave length or as up to speed as him, it’s very noticeable between the two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 When I saw Barca in their opener at home back in August Messi was clearly the best player on the pitch, but a lot of what he tried to do or wanted to do just didn’t come off because others weren’t on his wave length or as up to speed as he was. I’m not criticising him here, but Ronaldo can do his thing regardless of whether his team mates are on his wave length or as up to speed as him, it’s very noticeable between the two. Not really. Ronaldo is a poacher these days. He needs other players to create for him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemtizz Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Benzema is quite literally Ronaldo's bitch. He plays solely for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraguy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that's always been a myth, but it was a fair argument to an extent until recently because it was difficult to disprove. Messi dragged Argentina to the WC knockout stages and even more so with a hat-trick to get them to this year's WC. Barca are now nowhere near the team they were, but you can still guarantee that he'll be involved in their clutch moments. Dragged ? How many times has Ronaldo done that, remember Sweden? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Think what he means is the type of player Messi is he is on another level when he is alongside players who sing from the same same hymsheet as him (trying out my inner Motson, hope it goes well). Where as you can stick a classic straight down the line goalscorer in any side and they'll score goals. You'll obviously stick Messi in any side and he'll score too like, so I'm not sure how strong the argument is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 What I love about Ronaldo, separating Messi here for a moment, is his will to win and sheer determination to try and force a positive outcome for his team via his own personal strengths and prowess which I think is a skill in itself and worthy of admiration away from the selfish and lazy characture of him. You need to read a lot of what Fergie says about him when it comes to his lifestyle, training and focus. I believe Rooney is just as or not more talented ability wise and while he’s went on to achieve great things, you kind of get the impression he’s underachieved because of his off-field character and lack of focus etc. Then you have the likes of Henry who had all of that, but couldn’t reach the heights Ronaldo has and that’s down to ability and talent. Which he has in abundance. Not as much as Messi, but again he’s not light years away from him or in superior. What I especiallly like about Ronaldo is how he’s changed his game so much from a one trick pony type winger to the ultimate CF. That’s some feat. What I love about Messi is how quick he sees things and how easy it all is for him, same with Iniesta and Xavi for different reasons. That’s why I think Ronaldo would be Ronaldo regardless of team set up or tactics and why Messi may not because he needs players to be on a similar wavelength. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 When I saw Barca in their opener at home back in August Messi was clearly the best player on the pitch, but a lot of what he tried to do or wanted to do just didn’t come off because others weren’t on his wave length or as up to speed as he was. I’m not criticising him here, but Ronaldo can do his thing regardless of whether his team mates are on his wave length or as up to speed as him, it’s very noticeable between the two. Not really. Ronaldo is a poacher these days. He needs other players to create for him He’s a CF so of course, likewise Messi would just be a dribbler nowadays if he didn't have players moving for him, taking players away and linking up superbly with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Think what he means is the type of player Messi is he is on another level when he is alongside players who sing from the same same hymsheet as him (trying out my inner Motson, hope it goes well). Where as you can stick a classic straight down the line goalscorer in any side and they'll score goals. You'll obviously stick Messi in any side and he'll score too like, so I'm not sure how strong the argument is Aye but it's basically criticising Messi for being a more complete player who can score, create, dribble and control the tempo of a game rather than just being a penalty box player Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 When I saw Barca in their opener at home back in August Messi was clearly the best player on the pitch, but a lot of what he tried to do or wanted to do just didn’t come off because others weren’t on his wave length or as up to speed as he was. I’m not criticising him here, but Ronaldo can do his thing regardless of whether his team mates are on his wave length or as up to speed as him, it’s very noticeable between the two. Not really. Ronaldo is a poacher these days. He needs other players to create for him He’s a CF so of course, likewise Messi would just be a dribbler nowadays if he didn't have players moving for him, taking players away and linking up superbly with him. Nah if Messi was playing with worse players he'd still be a brilliant passer as well or he could play as a striker and score even more without effecting the game as much overall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Xavi and Iniesta dictated tempo and control of the game more than or just as much as Messi did btw. Ronaldo is more than a Penalty box player man, even today. Messi will always have the upper hand in terms of productivity during the game when on the ball, even more so at his age as he will drop deeper, look for the ball and get on it more. Ronaldo won’t, that’s never been his game, more so now where it’s about scoring goals and being a threat in the very final 3rd. Again both players do what they do better than anyone else and are a credit to themselves that they can keep doing it so consistently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Think what he means is the type of player Messi is he is on another level when he is alongside players who sing from the same same hymsheet as him (trying out my inner Motson, hope it goes well). Where as you can stick a classic straight down the line goalscorer in any side and they'll score goals. You'll obviously stick Messi in any side and he'll score too like, so I'm not sure how strong the argument is Aye but it's basically criticising Messi for being a more complete player who can score, create, dribble and control the tempo of a game rather than just being a penalty box player I don't think so like. Some attributes are just more 'universal' for want of a better word. The obvious example is a goal poacher who can look great in almost any side. Messi would probably challenge for the top scorer title in any Premiership side though playing anywhere across the front line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that's always been a myth, but it was a fair argument to an extent until recently because it was difficult to disprove. Messi dragged Argentina to the WC knockout stages and even more so with a hat-trick to get them to this year's WC. Barca are now nowhere near the team they were, but you can still guarantee that he'll be involved in their clutch moments. That what always going to be difficult - look at them now.... miles ahead of Madrid and comfortably ahead of At.Madrid. They're still matching the overall standards. As for Argentia, he's still not quite there, imo. Also, Ronaldo dragged Portugal to the Euro's with a hat-rick against Sweden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 When I saw Barca in their opener at home back in August Messi was clearly the best player on the pitch, but a lot of what he tried to do or wanted to do just didn’t come off because others weren’t on his wave length or as up to speed as he was. I’m not criticising him here, but Ronaldo can do his thing regardless of whether his team mates are on his wave length or as up to speed as him, it’s very noticeable between the two. Not really. Ronaldo is a poacher these days. He needs other players to create for him He’s a CF so of course, likewise Messi would just be a dribbler nowadays if he didn't have players moving for him, taking players away and linking up superbly with him. Nah if Messi was playing with worse players he'd still be a brilliant passer as well or he could play as a striker and score even more without effecting the game as much overall He would still be a brilliant passer and dribbler, but for every goal he creates himself, he also needs players to move, to see what he’s doing and to also play him in. Just like a jigsaw. Without such players he would be less effective. Ronaldo wouldn’t. He needs service of course, but he relies less on being a part of a team dynamic than Messi or rather his team relies less on him being the fulcrum of a team dynamic. That’s the difference, that’s not saying he is better than the other or vice versa, that’s just highlighting strengths and what kind of players they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Think what he means is the type of player Messi is he is on another level when he is alongside players who sing from the same same hymsheet as him (trying out my inner Motson, hope it goes well). Where as you can stick a classic straight down the line goalscorer in any side and they'll score goals. You'll obviously stick Messi in any side and he'll score too like, so I'm not sure how strong the argument is I don't think anyone said anything to the contrary, did they? It's just that his stats would inevitably dip as he's not surrounded with the 'tailored' team that clearly plays a big part in his game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Think what he means is the type of player Messi is he is on another level when he is alongside players who sing from the same same hymsheet as him (trying out my inner Motson, hope it goes well). Where as you can stick a classic straight down the line goalscorer in any side and they'll score goals. You'll obviously stick Messi in any side and he'll score too like, so I'm not sure how strong the argument is I don't think anyone said anything to the contrary, did they? It's just that his stats would inevitably dip as he's not surrounded with the 'tailored' team that clearly plays a big part in his game. I never said that. I'm just reinforcing the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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