Guest firetotheworks Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that's always been a myth, but it was a fair argument to an extent until recently because it was difficult to disprove. Messi dragged Argentina to the WC knockout stages and even more so with a hat-trick to get them to this year's WC. Barca are now nowhere near the team they were, but you can still guarantee that he'll be involved in their clutch moments. Dragged ? How many times has Ronaldo done that, remember Sweden? ? I'm responding to a post saying that Messi relies on having better players around him. I didn't say Ronaldo hasn't dragged his team, just saying that Messi has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Whenever I’ve seen Messi for Argentina he’s always played diffrently even when scoring or creating, looking a different player to what he is with Barca hence some of the criticism when he plays for his county. Ronaldo, however, plays the same way when playing for Portugal and if not better at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that's always been a myth, but it was a fair argument to an extent until recently because it was difficult to disprove. Messi dragged Argentina to the WC knockout stages and even more so with a hat-trick to get them to this year's WC. Barca are now nowhere near the team they were, but you can still guarantee that he'll be involved in their clutch moments. That what always going to be difficult - look at them now.... miles ahead of Madrid and comfortably ahead of At.Madrid. They're still matching the overall standards. As for Argentia, he's still not quite there, imo. Also, Ronaldo dragged Portugal to the Euro's with a hat-rick against Sweden. Just watch Barca and you can see they're not the same, they're miles ahead for a variety of reasons, but it's definitely not because they're as dominant as they were from say 2008-2014. re Ronaldo. I was just saying that Messi has dragged Argentina and Barca, not that Ronaldo hasn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Whenever I’ve seen Messi for Argentina he’s always played diffrently even when scoring or creating, looking a different player to what he is with Barca hence some of the criticism when he plays for his county. Ronaldo, however, plays the same way when playing for Portugal and if not better at times. When did you last see him play for Argentina? He was incredible in the qualifiers last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that's always been a myth, but it was a fair argument to an extent until recently because it was difficult to disprove. Messi dragged Argentina to the WC knockout stages and even more so with a hat-trick to get them to this year's WC. Barca are now nowhere near the team they were, but you can still guarantee that he'll be involved in their clutch moments. That what always going to be difficult - look at them now.... miles ahead of Madrid and comfortably ahead of At.Madrid. They're still matching the overall standards. As for Argentia, he's still not quite there, imo. Also, Ronaldo dragged Portugal to the Euro's with a hat-rick against Sweden. Just watch Barca and you can see they're not the same, they're miles ahead for a variety of reasons, but it's definitely not because they're as dominant as they were from say 2008-2014. re Ronaldo. I was just saying that Messi has dragged Argentina and Barca, not that Ronaldo hasn't. Is he matching the standards of the years before? You could argue that other variables, such as age might play a part now. But still, I'm sure he's not 'dragging' Barca to 3 points every week. The argument that Inestia and Xavi etc, with the club's philosophy over the past 10 or so years of making him the vocal point of their playing style and success, is still a powerful and observant one. You don't need stats to see that sort of things. (Actually, it's a phenomena that you cant quantify, frankly.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that's always been a myth, but it was a fair argument to an extent until recently because it was difficult to disprove. Messi dragged Argentina to the WC knockout stages and even more so with a hat-trick to get them to this year's WC. Barca are now nowhere near the team they were, but you can still guarantee that he'll be involved in their clutch moments. That what always going to be difficult - look at them now.... miles ahead of Madrid and comfortably ahead of At.Madrid. They're still matching the overall standards. As for Argentia, he's still not quite there, imo. Also, Ronaldo dragged Portugal to the Euro's with a hat-rick against Sweden. Just watch Barca and you can see they're not the same, they're miles ahead for a variety of reasons, but it's definitely not because they're as dominant as they were from say 2008-2014. re Ronaldo. I was just saying that Messi has dragged Argentina and Barca, not that Ronaldo hasn't. Is he matching the standards of the years before? You could argue that other variables, such as age might play a part now. But still, I'm sure he's not 'dragging' Barca to 3 points every week. The argument that Inestia and Xavi etc, with the club's philosophy over the past 10 or so years of making him the vocal point of their playing style and success, is still a powerful and observant one. You don't need stats to see that sort of things. (Actually, it's a phenomena that you cant quantify, frankly.) Just watch them if you haven't, he's still as good and effective but Barca as a whole aren't the same team they were. That's the whole point really. I didn't say he's dragging them to 3 points every week I said he's dragged Argentina and that he's nearly always involved in Barca's clutch moments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 V.I's probably the best person to ask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Messi obviously has the edge as a player, but in regards to likeability, Ronaldo is fucking awful IMO. Messi has every excuse in the world to be a diver, but he's not, it's not in his character, not only is he the greatest player in the world he's also a fair player. Ronaldo on the other hand is a diving, whiny, girly girl, regularly pretending to cry. I can't stand that shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraguy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Messi obviously has the edge as a player, but in regards to likeability, Ronaldo is f***ing awful IMO. Messi has every excuse in the world to be a diver, but he's not, it's not in his character, not only is he the greatest player in the world he's also a fair player. Ronaldo on the other hand is a diving, whiny, girly girl, regularly pretending to cry. I can't stand that s***. really think you will find he has countless amounts of times Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that's always been a myth, but it was a fair argument to an extent until recently because it was difficult to disprove. Messi dragged Argentina to the WC knockout stages and even more so with a hat-trick to get them to this year's WC. Barca are now nowhere near the team they were, but you can still guarantee that he'll be involved in their clutch moments. That what always going to be difficult - look at them now.... miles ahead of Madrid and comfortably ahead of At.Madrid. They're still matching the overall standards. As for Argentia, he's still not quite there, imo. Also, Ronaldo dragged Portugal to the Euro's with a hat-rick against Sweden. Just watch Barca and you can see they're not the same, they're miles ahead for a variety of reasons, but it's definitely not because they're as dominant as they were from say 2008-2014. re Ronaldo. I was just saying that Messi has dragged Argentina and Barca, not that Ronaldo hasn't. Is he matching the standards of the years before? You could argue that other variables, such as age might play a part now. But still, I'm sure he's not 'dragging' Barca to 3 points every week. The argument that Inestia and Xavi etc, with the club's philosophy over the past 10 or so years of making him the vocal point of their playing style and success, is still a powerful and observant one. You don't need stats to see that sort of things. (Actually, it's a phenomena that you cant quantify, frankly.) Just watch them if you haven't, he's still as good and effective but Barca as a whole aren't the same team they were. That's the whole point really. I didn't say he's dragging them to 3 points every week I said he's dragged Argentina and that he's nearly always involved in Barca's clutch moments. I know you didn't, but you mentioned that he dragged Argentina to the WC (and the hat-rick game), which really doesn't invalidate the notion that, for many years week in and week out, he had the likes of Iniesta and Xavi around him and that they were a great help to him rising to be what he is. Him scoring a hat-rick against Ecuador is a great achievement considering the context, but it's still sort of a one-off example. It's not the 'normal' (match-to-match) picture of what Messi is. (ie, he doesn't drag teams to three points every week - nobody does), but a more obvious (not-exhaustive) description of Messi's effectiveness is: Iniesta, Xavi, etc. It's clearly prevalent to what Messi is and what he's done over the years. It made him what he is now a lot more than those one-off world class performances where he dragged his teams to victory. (Which I still think it's relatively limited, as it's always been easy to get over excited when he's performing magnificently and thus forgetting about everyone else.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Another topic. 5 players have scored in 2 CL finals or more in the modern era. Name em. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Ronaldo Messi Mandzukic Ramos Bale ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroblack Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Ronaldo Mandzukic Sergio Ramos Messi Eto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Ok my source is shakey. But 4 are correct. Not sure the other 2 I’ve got have 2 finals goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 what the fuck is the modern era, because im just gannin through wikipedia and there are definitely more than 5 since it became the CL. I'm up to 6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Ronaldo - aye Messi - aye Mandžukić- aye (wasn’t in the list but he definitely has) Ramos - aye Eto’o - aye (can only recall 1 though - against Arsenal) And another one. Apparently anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Raul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 what the f*** is the modern era, because im just gannin through wikipedia and there are definitely more than 5 since it became the CL. I'm up to 6. My source is the BBC (which doesn’t even mention modern era - simply CL) and overall I’m up to at least 8 lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroblack Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Ok my source is shakey. But 4 are correct. Not sure the other 2 I’ve got have 2 finals goals. Me? Pretty sure they all scored twice Messi - 09 +13 Eto - 06 + 09 Ronaldo - 08 + 14 + 17 Mandzukic - 13 + 17 Ramos - 14 + 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Yeah - Raul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 The way Messi dominated the Clasico last spring was just something else. I love watching C.Ronaldo, he's an absolute beast of a player, but I've never seen him dominate a game like Messi did there (and have done on plenty other occasions). What Messi lacks in heading ability, he more than makes up for with his passing, flair, dribbling and vision to make him a much better player than Ronaldo IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Motson's last game this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Motson's last game this weekend. Met him once. He was a prick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 What happened? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 He should have wrapped in about 15 years ago tbh, he’s lost the plot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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