Anthony Gordon

[KaKa]

6 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Maddison had just signed for Leicester at Gordon's age and hadn't played in the prem. Gordon has 6-7 PL goals to his name before Maddison had even made his PL debut at the same age. 

 

Gordons breakthrough seasons were in a relegation threatened basket case of a club. Leicester were at the top end of the table functioning like a club which could upset the establishment again. 

 

It's really hard to compare them both due to their environments, nevermind the different types of players that they are. 

 

If there's one thing that is for certain, it's that most football fans don't trust their clubs buying promising young players that don't come with the ready made stats in hand.

 

It was the same thing with Joao Pedro on here over the summer. People saying we shouldn't be spending £30 million on him because he wasn't a goal scorer and pointing to his record in the previous prem season when he was just 20 years old.

 

They just don't believe in scouting and identifying players potential based on their abilities, which haven't yet translated into actual tangible stats on the pitch yet.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by KaKa

[ohmelads]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

You spoke of the budget as if spending on Gordon means no other deals could be done.

 

You spoke of signing Gordon as if it meant Maddison or anyone else couldn't be signed in addition to him.

 

You spoke of Gordon coming in on the left because Howe doesn't trust ASM tactically.

 

Come on man.

 

 

 

How much do you think we're spending this month? Do you think that we are going to spend 40M+ on Gordon and still be able to sign a proven Premier League player like, say, Maddison, in January? I didn't say no other deals could be done, but let's be real.

 

ASM's last league start was in August and we're looking to make our major January signing a player who plays in his position, when he already hasn't started a league game for 5 months. That's pretty indicative.

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Maddison had just signed for Leicester at Gordon's age and hadn't played in the prem. Gordon has 6-7 PL goals to his name before Maddison had even made his PL debut at the same age. 

 

Gordons breakthrough seasons were in a relegation threatened basket case of a club. Leicester were at the top end of the table functioning like a club which could upset the establishment again. 

 

It's really hard to compare them both due to their environments, nevermind the different types of players that they are. 

I genuinely think people would anticipate Gordon's arrival more had he came off a 14 goal and 8 assist season in the Championship as a 21-year-old. If things go well, he'll score, he'll assist.

 

Anthony Gordon is not proven at any level.

 

And for me - he hasn't passed the eye test. I've never rated him.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by The College Dropout

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

If there's one thing that is for certain, it's that most football fans don't trust their clubs buying promising young players that don't come with the ready made stats in hand.

 

It was the same thing with Joao Pedro on here over the summer. People saying we shouldn't be spending £30 million on him because he wasn't a goal scorer and pointing to his record in the previous prem season when he was just 20 years old.

 

They just don't believe in scouting and identifying players potential based on their abilities, which haven't yet translated into actual tangible stats on the pitch yet.

 

 

 

I think it’s more that we would be buying Gordon in a position we aren’t exactly blessed with real quality in and he isn’t proven. If we already had a winger or 2 of real proven quality then signing someone as raw as Gordon would be more accepted. It was the same with Pedro in the summer I was against signing him at the time because I felt we needed someone more proven and in the end the club agreed and went for Isak. 

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, ohmelads said:

 

How much do you think we're spending this month? Do you think that we are going to spend 40M+ on Gordon and still be able to sign a proven Premier League player like, say, Maddison, in January? I didn't say no other deals could be done, but let's be real.

 

ASM's last league start was in August and we're looking to make our major January signing a player who plays in his position, when he already hasn't started a league game for 5 months. That's pretty indicative.

 

I believe the club would absolutely spend that kind of money, but only if the valuation matches theirs, yes. The problem is that in January that is rarely the case. The Gordon deal is being done because with all the hoopla over there he seems to be available for a valuation close to what we agree with. If the same happened with any other player we liked, I think we'd do such a deal as well.

 

ASM hasn't been able to get a run in the team this season because he has kept breaking down physically, and was ultimately out injured for a decent amount of time. This has likely set him back fitness wise, and for the style of play we currently use, he can't just come straight back in, and so he's being worked back in gradually, just like they are doing with Isak, who's been out injured as well.

[ohmelads]

8 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Maddison had just signed for Leicester at Gordon's age and hadn't played in the prem. Gordon has 6-7 PL goals to his name before Maddison had even made his PL debut at the same age. 

 

Gordons breakthrough seasons were in a relegation threatened basket case of a club. Leicester were at the top end of the table functioning like a club which could upset the establishment again. 

 

It's really hard to compare them both due to their environments, nevermind the different types of players that they are. 

 

Fair points. I was going to add some of those caveats but it would've been a massive post, but you're right. Different positions and clubs. Maddison did score 7 goals and 7 assists the following season, and has maintained that level ever since, hence he's a proven talent vs Gordon who is a much younger and more unproven talent. That's the comparison I was highlighting. I had expected us to go for someone proven but with years left in the tank. Howe has said he wants to lower the squad age, and obviously feels Gordon has the raw attributes. Howe and the team have earned our trust, but like others, I do feel it's high risk for the fee.

[SteV]

3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I think it’s more that we would be buying Gordon in a position we aren’t exactly blessed with real quality in and he isn’t proven. If we already had a winger or 2 of real proven quality then signing someone as raw as Gordon would be more accepted. It was the same with Pedro in the summer I was against signing him at the time because I felt we needed someone more proven and in the end the club agreed and went for Isak. 

If Watford had of accepted our offer we would have got Pedro though. Maybe we’d have got Isak as well (probably unlikely), but you can’t really say ‘they chose Isak over Pedro’. 
 

Not that it’s ever that binary anyway.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by SteV

[The College Dropout]

It's a completely different era but again.. Bellamy had scored over 40 professional goals before he came here. Including 17 in a season in the old First Division. And we had nothing like him upfront in terms of his pace and dynamism. He changed the entire team with his profile.

 

I think Gordon brings the same skillset as Miggy but uses both feet. And similar limitations in terms of quality.

[SUPERTOON]

3 minutes ago, SteV said:

If Watford had of accepted our offer we would have got Pedro though. Maybe we’d have got Isak as well (probably unlikely), but you can’t really say ‘they chose Isak over Pedro’. 
 

Not that it’s ever that binary anyway.

 

 

 

I disagree, I think we pulled out the Pedro deal after the Wilson injury, pretty sure that’s what was reported anyways.

 

I may be wrong with that mind just what I remember reading.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by SUPERTOON

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, SteV said:

If Watford had of accepted our offer we would have got Pedro though. Maybe we’d have got Isak as well (probably unlikely), but you can’t really say ‘they chose Isak over Pedro’. 
 

Not that it’s ever that binary anyway.

 

 

 

I think it was.

 

We abandoned pursuit of Pedro in favour of the more expensive, experienced and proven - Isak. We became prepared to spend more money and Sociedad prepared to take less.

[STM]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

It's a completely different era but again.. Bellamy had scored over 40 professional goals before he came here. Including 17 in a season in the old First Division. And we had nothing like him upfront in terms of his pace and dynamism. He changed the entire team with his profile.

 

I think Gordon brings the same skillset as Miggy but uses both feet. And similar limitations in terms of quality.

 

When you say 1st division, you mean championship equivalent, right?

 

Also the Bellamy comparisons are unfair, since Gordon isn't a striker.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, STM said:

 

When you say 1st division, you mean championship equivalent, right?

 

Also the Bellamy comparisons are unfair, since Gordon isn't a striker.

He’s not the one constantly making the Bellamy comparisons in fairness.

[STM]

Yeah, sorry. Kind of entered the middle of a conversation.

[KaKa]

14 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I think it’s more that we would be buying Gordon in a position we aren’t exactly blessed with real quality in and he isn’t proven. If we already had a winger or 2 of real proven quality then signing someone as raw as Gordon would be more accepted. It was the same with Pedro in the summer I was against signing him at the time because I felt we needed someone more proven and in the end the club agreed and went for Isak. 

 

With everyone fit and firing, ASM would be on the left and Almiron on the right IMO. Those two at their best are good enough to start at the minute, and would provide enough quality.

 

Gordon would be a high potential young player that can start occasionally and come in off the bench and make an impact, and he can do so in multiple positions on the pitch. It would have been a similar thing or idea with Joao Pedro.

 

From what I can make of things, the Gordon signing looks to be an alternative to signing Joao Pedro, who is unfortunately out injured, and who Watford were seemingly not willing to sell anyway. 

 

I think this money we are looking to spend on Gordon would have been spent on Joao Pedro in the summer if Watford had not been against selling him. I think the Isak deal was a separate deal altogether, and we would have still signed Joao Pedro.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by KaKa

[PauloGeordio]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

With everyone fit and firing, ASM would be on the left and Almiron on the right IMO. Those two at their best are good enough to start at the minute, and would provide enough quality.

 

Gordon would be a high potential young player that can start occasionally and come in off the bench and make an impact, and he can do so in multiple positions on the pitch. It would have been a similar thing or idea with Joao Pedro.

 

From what I can make of things, the Gordon signing looks to be an alternative to singing Joao Pedro, who is unfortunately out injured, and who Watford we're seemingly not willing to sell anyway. 

 

I think this money we are looking to spend on Gordon would have been spent on Joao Pedro in the summer if Watford had not been against selling him. I think the Isak deal was a separate deal altogether, and we would have still signed Joao Pedro.

 

 

Meaning Maddison is our main target this window! 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, STM said:

 

When you say 1st division, you mean championship equivalent, right?

 

Also the Bellamy comparisons are unfair, since Gordon isn't a striker.

Yes Champo.

 

It's true he's not a striker. But the point is Bellamy had proven himself at the level below at a young age and had a unique skillset for the squad. So the comparison is flawed. Same with JM. He looked the dogs bollocks in the Champo at a young age - question was - could it translate?

 

There are more questions about Gordon because he's shown less quality. His profile, seems similar to what we already have - which is a positive. But many like myself, would like to see a little more quality.

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

With everyone fit and firing, ASM would be on the left and Almiron on the right IMO. Those two at their best are good enough to start at the minute, and would provide enough quality.

 

Gordon would be a high potential young player that can start occasionally and come in off the bench and make an impact, and he can do so in multiple positions on the pitch. It would have been a similar thing or idea with Joao Pedro.

 

From what I can make of things, the Gordon signing looks to be an alternative to singing Joao Pedro, who is unfortunately out injured, and who Watford we're seemingly not willing to sell anyway. 

 

I think this money we are looking to spend on Gordon would have been spent on Joao Pedro in the summer if Watford had not been against selling him. I think the Isak deal was a separate deal altogether, and we would have still signed Joao Pedro.

 

 

Agree with most, however I do feel Gordon once up to speed and fitness will play instead of ASM. I just don’t think Howe really trusts him and he will go in the summer.

[SteV]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

I think it was.

 

We abandoned pursuit of Pedro in favour of the more expensive, experienced and proven - Isak. We became prepared to spend more money and Sociedad prepared to take less.

It was definitely reported we’d had bids rejected for Pedro. At that point we may have been thinking we’d rather go for Pedro for 25/30 than Isak for, let’s say 90. Then Watford have said that’s not enough and Sociedad said we’ll take a bit less, so that changes things.

 

Just like here. We’ll have a fee in mind for Gordon, but if Everton wanted more and, let’s say Leverkusen suddenly dropped Diaby’s asking price we might pivot.

 

As I say, it’s very rarely a binary, ‘we choose him over him’, there’s always other factors determining the decision

[The College Dropout]

Lots of people are saying the same thing and others just want to disagree.

 

Many:
I was hoping for a quality signing (Bruno, Isak, Botman, Trippier, Pope) to come into the first team and be that level above. With the aim of keeping us in the top 4. Gordon doesn't look to be that player. He looks like he can play in our style and compete with what we have but doesn't look a level above what we already have and consider to be a lack of quality.

 

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, PauloGeordio said:

Meaning Maddison is our main target this window! 

 

If Leicester made him available for a fair price that took into account his contract situation as well, I have no doubt we would go for him. 

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, SteV said:

It was definitely reported we’d had bids rejected for Pedro. At that point we may have been thinking we’d rather go for Pedro for 25/30 than Isak for, let’s say 90. Then Watford have said that’s not enough and Sociedad said we’ll take a bit less, so that changes things.

 

Just like here. We’ll have a fee in mind for Gordon, but if Everton wanted more and, let’s say Leverkusen suddenly dropped Diaby’s asking price we might pivot.

 

As I say, it’s very rarely a binary, ‘we choose him over him’, there’s always other factors determining the decision

It's reported that the City game and the Wilson injury was a game changer for the decision makers.

 

It's not like Sociedad reached out to us. Isak played that same weekend and scored iirc. We went back determined to get a deal, with a bigger budget and Sociedad came down a bit on price. They got a whole £60m, it's not like we got a cut-price bargain deal. In short, we did the pivot.

 

It was circumstance and desire rather than a "value for money" call.

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Agree with most, however I do feel Gordon once up to speed and fitness will play instead of ASM. I just don’t think Howe really trusts him and he will go in the summer.

 

I think Howe appreciates the x factor ASM brings to the team, and the fact he can galvanize the whole stadium with some of his play. I think he's willing to continue working with him to sharpen certain aspects of his game. More importantly it's very evident ASM is open to improving as well, as you can already see he is playing with his head up more.

 

Howe mitigates for his weaker defensive ability by pairing him with Joelinton on that left side, and that looked to be working very well. You just have to go back and watch the home game against Man City earlier in the season to see the possibilities when ASM was at full flight down that side with Joelinton covering for him defensively.

 

The only issue right now is getting ASM fit enough to not keep breaking down all the time. If that proves to continue to be a problem, then he might eventually have to move on.

[STM]

FWIW, I think Gordon has a higher potential than Harrison of Leeds, who's in a comparable position.

 

Gordon is a classic young kid with plenty of potential but a bit of headless chicken. He just needs pointed in the right direction.

 

He's not the sort of player who you expect to do something magic on the ball but I think he's quick and could pose a massive problem physically to stretch defenders.

 

He's a good building block type player.

[MrRaspberryJam]

71 pages of absolutely nothing. 

[TRon]

41 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

It's a completely different era but again.. Bellamy had scored over 40 professional goals before he came here. Including 17 in a season in the old First Division. And we had nothing like him upfront in terms of his pace and dynamism. He changed the entire team with his profile.

 

I think Gordon brings the same skillset as Miggy but uses both feet. And similar limitations in terms of quality.

 

The players with the extra quality might not have the same work ethic which is pretty much a must in an Eddie Howe team. You mentioned Maxi as an example of quality for example, there's a case in point. No one doubts his ability, but he's never going to press for 90 mins like Gordon or Miggy.