Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[madras]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

My position will always be from a place of sympathy because I believe the Financial Fair Play laws are flawed and ultimately handicap anyone outside the "big six" who try to compete.

 

Of course that is the law of the land, Everton have broken it and will be punished. I'll be surprised if it isn't reduced on appeal though.

I thi k they know there'll be no need. Also it sets a precedent. The Man City and Chelsea ones are bigger in scope and the bar has been set.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, madras said:

I thi k they know there'll be no need. Also it sets a precedent. The Man City and Chelsea ones are bigger in scope and the bar has been set.

 

Aye, the PL say in the report it's intended to have a "deterrent" effect.

 

I think where it might fall down is the lack of clarity around and opaque nature of the PLs sanctions. If they were a public body, they'd get torn a new one in a Judicial Review.

[Dokko]

Hopefully it's increased on appeal. 

[midds]

Still think it's pretty ridiculous that the PL punishments are handed out after the judgement has already been made and no-one has a clue what they might be. There isn't a sanction league table for want of a better expression. 

 

Breach FFP by £5m? £2m fine

Breach FFP by £50m? we'll take 5 points

Breach FFP by £500m? we'll relegate you and ban you from re-entering the PL for 5 years etc

 

No fucker knows where they stand or what punishment they'll get or whether it'll be consistent from club to club, they're making it up as they go along depending on which way the wind is blowing. The whole thing is a load of utter shit to benefit a tiny handful of established clubs who grew without any restrictions until they became so powerful they inserted this thick glass floor beneath them. The fact they then sold it as being 'fair' was the icing on the cake. The fact they then went ahead, signed the contracts to launch the ESL which would have destroyed the English footballing pyramid and got of with a poxy fine they fucking negotiated themselves speaks volumes as to how fair the PL actually is. 

 

Genuinely hope Everton challenge all of it and it all comes crashing down. I'll not hold my breath though

 

[McDog]

17 minutes ago, Carlton said:

It isn't but it doesn't look as though I can start a new thread.

 

 

I think there is some general threads you could discuss this in. I think it was discussed somewhere around here.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, midds said:

Still think it's pretty ridiculous that the PL punishments are handed out after the judgement has already been made and no-one has a clue what they might be. There isn't a sanction league table for want of a better expression. 

 

Breach FFP by £5m? £2m fine

Breach FFP by £50m? we'll take 5 points

Breach FFP by £500m? we'll relegate you and ban you from re-entering the PL for 5 years etc

 

No fucker knows where they stand or what punishment they'll get or whether it'll be consistent from club to club, they're making it up as they go along depending on which way the wind is blowing. The whole thing is a load of utter shit to benefit a tiny handful of established clubs who grew without any restrictions until they became so powerful they inserted this thick glass floor beneath them. The fact they then sold it as being 'fair' was the icing on the cake. The fact they then went ahead, signed the contracts to launch the ESL which would have destroyed the English footballing pyramid and got of with a poxy fine they fucking negotiated themselves speaks volumes as to how fair the PL actually is. 

 

Genuinely hope Everton challenge all of it and it all comes crashing down. I'll not hold my breath though

 

 

Good post, that's pretty much where I'm at.

[McDog]

The NFL in the USA is like that, they make everything up as they go and do whatever they want at all times.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Carlton said:

Just been reading an article by Fair Cop asking why a lesbian should be banned by the club for disagreeing with trans ideology. She's been suspended for this season and the next two.

For those of you with a conscience, is it fair to ban someone who has said nothing wrong but does not agree with the privileges demanded by these people? 

Is there anything else that is so terrible to discuss that you should be banned although people committing violence on the streets and calling for the deaths of people of another nationality are not penalised

Not the place for this one, though ‘said nothing wrong’ is stretching it.

 

And given this is your first post, I’m so happy that Musk’s insertion into that has clearly provoked you to come on here from mums.net or Glinner’s blog site

[TheBrownBottle]

32 minutes ago, midds said:

Still think it's pretty ridiculous that the PL punishments are handed out after the judgement has already been made and no-one has a clue what they might be. There isn't a sanction league table for want of a better expression. 

 

Breach FFP by £5m? £2m fine

Breach FFP by £50m? we'll take 5 points

Breach FFP by £500m? we'll relegate you and ban you from re-entering the PL for 5 years etc

 

No fucker knows where they stand or what punishment they'll get or whether it'll be consistent from club to club, they're making it up as they go along depending on which way the wind is blowing. The whole thing is a load of utter shit to benefit a tiny handful of established clubs who grew without any restrictions until they became so powerful they inserted this thick glass floor beneath them. The fact they then sold it as being 'fair' was the icing on the cake. The fact they then went ahead, signed the contracts to launch the ESL which would have destroyed the English footballing pyramid and got of with a poxy fine they fucking negotiated themselves speaks volumes as to how fair the PL actually is. 

 

Genuinely hope Everton challenge all of it and it all comes crashing down. I'll not hold my breath though

 

Everton are hardly Rob Roy here.  They knew full well what they were doing - if they wanted to challenge FFP legally, they had several years to do it.  They tried to bullshit and lie their way around it.

 

Fuck them. 

[madras]

Got to wonder, given the well connected nature of the people we brought in behind the scenes and the way the football grapevine works, if our plan was to be whiter than white with FFP and FMV and wait for it to come crashing down round others?

[McDog]

Just now, madras said:

Got to wonder, given the well connected nature of the people we brought in behind the scenes and the way the football grapevine works, if our plan was to be whiter than white with FFP and FMV and wait for it to come crashing down round others?

 

 

Absolutely possible and not a terrible strategy.

[midds]

28 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Everton are hardly Rob Roy here.  They knew full well what they were doing - if they wanted to challenge FFP legally, they had several years to do it.  They tried to bullshit and lie their way around it.

 

Fuck them. 

They absolutely took the piss with the inflated covid losses but still feel they're going to be the canary down the FFP mine. 

 

The whole thing is horseshit. Setting up regulations to ensure dubious owners don't spend money they don't have it all well and good and protects clubs. Setting up regulations to ensure owners are forbidden to spend money they absolutely do have so a small number of clubs at the top of the league can't be challenged is another thing entirely. 

 

There has to be a legal challenge to the whole thing eventually/soon, surely? It's 100% restrictive. And that's before you even get into the whole FMV and related party transactions stuff too. Needs to be dragged through the courts so the likes of ourselves and Villa can land a few punches

[Stottie]

It sounds like Chelsea and Man City are being investigated by the FA as well as the Premier League.

So yes, having FA-connected people on our staff is probably an advantage.

 

 

 

[elbee909]

54 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Not the place for this one, though ‘said nothing wrong’ is stretching it.

 

And given this is your first post, I’m so happy that Musk’s insertion into that has clearly provoked you to come on here from mums.net or Glinner’s blog site

 

This. 'Fair Cop are a group of gender critical blah blah'. "Ideology" and "these people". Yeah fuck off Carlton.

 

[Pixelphish]

Zero sympathy for Everton and the PL are a joke. The stances aren't mutually exclusive.

[The College Dropout]

FFP is anti competitive.  I don’t support it at all. 
 

[madras]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

FFP is anti competitive.  I don’t support it at all. 
 

And yet having no FFP style regulations make it also, anti competitive. 

[The College Dropout]

9 minutes ago, madras said:

And yet having no FFP style regulations make it also, anti competitive. 

How so?

 

Theres only 3 European clubs (us, PSG, City) that could spend gazillions.  The rest are largely commercial endeavours that need to limit spending for financial viability. 
 

PSG have already made Ligue 1 anti competitive and are poorly run. 
 

 

City have gamed the system. They can do whatever they want under FFP anyway because they have a top 3 academy in the world and a manager that doesn’t love superstar players.  
 

And us. 

[madras]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

How so?

 

Theres only 3 European clubs (us, PSG, City) that could spend gazillions.  The rest are largely commercial endeavours that need to limit spending for financial viability. 
 

PSG have already made Ligue 1 anti competitive and are poorly run. 
 

 

City have gamed the system. They can do whatever they want under FFP anyway because they have a top 3 academy in the world and a manager that doesn’t love superstar players.  
 

And us. 

Because some other clubs have turned it into a cartel.

[Convict]

The open corruption that is accepted as normal is the problem. It is laughable that they are going to have another vote to stop us bringing in a player from the Saudi league. The PL is a farcical disgrace, protecting the clubs who are making it money. 

Attitudes will change when great clubs like Villa and us take the European spots or better.

[The College Dropout]

7 hours ago, madras said:

Because some other clubs have turned it into a cartel.

Aye and FFP is one of the main instruments. 

[Fezzle]

9 hours ago, midds said:

They absolutely took the piss with the inflated covid losses but still feel they're going to be the canary down the FFP mine. 

 

The whole thing is horseshit. Setting up regulations to ensure dubious owners don't spend money they don't have it all well and good and protects clubs. Setting up regulations to ensure owners are forbidden to spend money they absolutely do have so a small number of clubs at the top of the league can't be challenged is another thing entirely. 

 

There has to be a legal challenge to the whole thing eventually/soon, surely? It's 100% restrictive. And that's before you even get into the whole FMV and related party transactions stuff too. Needs to be dragged through the courts so the likes of ourselves and Villa can land a few punches

Yeah but Everton were weeks from going down the pan because of the way they went on. I agree if owners have it but they clearly didn't. 

[Cronky]

10 hours ago, midds said:

Still think it's pretty ridiculous that the PL punishments are handed out after the judgement has already been made and no-one has a clue what they might be. There isn't a sanction league table for want of a better expression. 

 

Breach FFP by £5m? £2m fine

Breach FFP by £50m? we'll take 5 points

Breach FFP by £500m? we'll relegate you and ban you from re-entering the PL for 5 years etc

 

No fucker knows where they stand or what punishment they'll get or whether it'll be consistent from club to club, they're making it up as they go along depending on which way the wind is blowing. The whole thing is a load of utter shit to benefit a tiny handful of established clubs who grew without any restrictions until they became so powerful they inserted this thick glass floor beneath them. The fact they then sold it as being 'fair' was the icing on the cake. The fact they then went ahead, signed the contracts to launch the ESL which would have destroyed the English footballing pyramid and got of with a poxy fine they fucking negotiated themselves speaks volumes as to how fair the PL actually is. 

 

Genuinely hope Everton challenge all of it and it all comes crashing down. I'll not hold my breath though

 

 

I think the problem is that there are so many ways of falling foul of FFP, and so many different circumstances, that a consistent formula for working out punishments is impossible. As an example, Everton tried to reduce their stated overspend by saying that they could have sued a player for £10m but decided not to because of issues with the player's mental health. That's not a situation that's going to arise very often.

 

Whatever its flaws, I'd rather live in a football world with FFP than without. We get focused on the way that it makes it difficult for new owners to break into the big six, but its main purpose is to protect clubs from owners who take undue risks and then leave the club high and dry.

 

I'm not sure there would be quite as much hostility to FFP on here if we hadn't been taken over by wealthy owners. Let's face it, there's a tendency for football supporters to define what's 'fair' in terms of what happens to be in their own club's interests.

[madras]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye and FFP is one of the main instruments. 

Because of the way FFP is constructed 

[The College Dropout]

There should be strict measures to ensure owners can sustain losses.  We don’t need FFP for that.   
 

Things like heavy leveraged takeovers should be banned. That risks clubs existence.