Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[Dr Jinx]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

Yeah, people have mentioned this but I just don’t view it that way. SSN isn’t a money spinner imo, it’s the ridiculously priced subscriptions which are, a quiet window won’t change that i think. 
 

Also, this is temporary, once the rolling period ends we will see the market move again. 
 

Even if your right, and Sky are upset ultimately they don’t get a vote regarding the rules of the league so they will have to suck thumb. 

 

No but they hold the purse strings. I think you’ll find that the next bid won’t be anywhere near as much.

 

Subs have to be down massively on a few years ago with how easy it is to get an IPTV account?

 

Ad revenue is huge for them.

[Minhosa]

Do PIF/Saudi now essentially control world football?

 

They've shut the taps off this month and the ripple effect has pretty much killed the window.

 

If they'd turned the taps on, everyone would be trading as normal (ish).

 

Is this a soft takeover of sorts a la LIV Golf without the animosity/PR Warfare?

[r0cafella]

11 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

 

No but they hold the purse strings. I think you’ll find that the next bid won’t be anywhere near as much.

 

Subs have to be down massively on a few years ago with how easy it is to get an IPTV account?

 

Ad revenue is huge for them.

The contract renewal has only just happened, even if Sky are minded to do something they can’t. 
 

It’s true Pay tv is a sunset industry at this point, but the premier league own the rights they sell to Sky, they can easily go it alone should they need to. 

[duo]

18 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

Do PIF/Saudi now essentially control world football?

 

They've shut the taps off this month and the ripple effect has pretty much killed the window.

 

If they'd turned the taps on, everyone would be trading as normal (ish).

 

Is this a soft takeover of sorts a la LIV Golf without the animosity/PR Warfare?

Strange that they have shut the taps off for us as well - could have been a good opportunity to clear a few players off the books and make some ground on other teams.

[timeEd32]

 

21 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

Do PIF/Saudi now essentially control world football?

 

They've shut the taps off this month and the ripple effect has pretty much killed the window.

 

If they'd turned the taps on, everyone would be trading as normal (ish).

 

Is this a soft takeover of sorts a la LIV Golf without the animosity/PR Warfare?

 

Only because everyone else is being regulated and they provided an outlet in the summer.

 

I think they’ve actually made the problem worse, at least temporarily. A natural reaction to these rules would be downward pressure on transfer fees and wages, but they are creating the opposite environment.

[Dan Gleebals]

5 hours ago, r0cafella said:

People are going to be properly disappointed when they tighten FFP further

 

I wonder if all fans from all the prem clubs could agree to boycott all games one week to campaign against FFP.  It is hardly helping anyone and sure the big clubs would support it. 

Or, is this a terrible idea (aside the fact people would still turn up!)? 

 

[bobbydazzla]

5 minutes ago, duo said:

Strange that they have shut the taps off for us as well - could have been a good opportunity to clear a few players off the books and make some ground on other teams.

 

Joining forces to prove a point, possibly. Short term pain for longer term gain.

 

NUFC is a high profile new asset that PIF are trying to build, but the PL won't let them invest. So to increase the pressure for FFP reform PIF lock down any transfer activity in SA too

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30 by bobbydazzla

[sushimonster85]

3 minutes ago, duo said:

Strange that they have shut the taps off for us as well - could have been a good opportunity to clear a few players off the books and make some ground on other teams.

 

To be fair they (it wasn't a PIF club, but I think it's clear the influence the PIF has on the league now) they did supposedly try to take Miggy.

[Matt1892]

We should go in the other direction, ask that FFP include any costs involving stadium and training ground refurbishment as if the purpose of it is to protect clubs from going bankrupt, then all financial costs should be involved.

[Yorkie]

33 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

Do PIF/Saudi now essentially control world football?

 

They've shut the taps off this month and the ripple effect has pretty much killed the window.

 

If they'd turned the taps on, everyone would be trading as normal (ish).

 

Is this a soft takeover of sorts a la LIV Golf without the animosity/PR Warfare?

 

I think the Saudi League flame might already be on the wane and, as you say, won't be the pressure release valve the European market was maybe banking on this month. Hendo jumping ship after five minutes will probably be a turning point when looking back in hindsight. If they've got the cash then they should seriously invest in their own talent instead of basically just doing what China did; maybe that's their long term plan and, if that's the case, good luck to them frankly. 

 

It's no bad thing. At first I thought they might act as a cat among pigeons, but - in terms of how it's operated before now - I think it's become clear that the Premier League et al can use the Saudi League's profligacy to their advantage. 

[r0cafella]

9 minutes ago, Dan Gleebals said:

 

I wonder if all fans from all the prem clubs could agree to boycott all games one week to campaign against FFP.  It is hardly helping anyone and sure the big clubs would support it. 

Or, is this a terrible idea (aside the fact people would still turn up!)? 

 

Most clubs aren’t against FFP. It really benefits most of the league as it creates glass ceilings throughout the pyramid. In the same way spurs and Liverpool don’t want to compete with us, clubs like palace don’t want to compete with upstarts like first. Most owners want to run clubs as cheaply as possible. 

[FloydianMag]

Wonder if this will benefit us?

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/18b877a4-b633-448e-b7c6-64a8c6b2ee61?shareToken=a943764ff240ece103ed4629dfaa4985

[NG32]

2 hours ago, FloydianMag said:

Wonder if this will benefit us?

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/18b877a4-b633-448e-b7c6-64a8c6b2ee61?shareToken=a943764ff240ece103ed4629dfaa4985

 

Maybe we will see a rule change *cough

[Jackie Broon]

3 hours ago, FloydianMag said:

Wonder if this will benefit us?

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/18b877a4-b633-448e-b7c6-64a8c6b2ee61?shareToken=a943764ff240ece103ed4629dfaa4985

 

I'm not sure it works like that for ffp purposes, I think the fee is amortised over 5 years whatever the structure of the actual deal.

 

It might matter in terms of cash flow for clubs where that is an issue but most clubs are now limited by ffp rather than actual cash flow.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Understandably we concentrate on the impact FFP has on our ability to buy/grow/compete but it will be interesting to see if there is a knock on impact from this window, and then the summer if it is also quiet, on the sustainability of lower league clubs.

 

Trickle down may be an awful concept, but it does happen in football, if premier league clubs aren't paying £15-£20m for a couple of championship players this will really slow the whole money flow down the pyramid.

 

Basically doing the exact opposite that the press release for it claimed it would do

[LFEE]

In general I’m all for less player trading and bringing youth through. It’s been argued that FFP makes clubs sell off their youth products which I get initially however if these youth products are good then go with them and turn them into great players rather than selling them to overpay for someone else’s star players and rinse n repeat.

 

Less money going out the game via agents is never a bad thing either.

[FloydianMag]

Article from Zeigler on FFP/PSR not behind a paywall.

 

https://x.com/martynziegler/status/1753072773059039495?s=61&t=Yt8DTJJ-7Jh_ndgpdGSFKQ

[timeEd32]

16 minutes ago, FloydianMag said:

Article from Zeigler on FFP/PSR not behind a paywall.

 

https://x.com/martynziegler/status/1753072773059039495?s=61&t=Yt8DTJJ-7Jh_ndgpdGSFKQ

 

Everton fans losing it in the replies. The entire case comes down to whether this is true or not: "Everton, who are owned by Farhad Moshiri, insist they did not breach the conditions of the 2021 agreement"

 

I have a feeling there will be little sympathy for Everton once all the facts come out. 

[macphisto]

14 hours ago, LFEE said:

In general I’m all for less player trading and bringing youth through. It’s been argued that FFP makes clubs sell off their youth products which I get initially however if these youth products are good then go with them and turn them into great players rather than selling them to overpay for someone else’s star players and rinse n repeat.

 

Less money going out the game via agents is never a bad thing either.

Would relying on youth not leave you vulnerable if the talent wasn't coming through? Shearer was the last world class player to come through North of the M62 (North East & Scotland). Since Shearer it's been a virtual wasteland, absolute no comparison to what went before. 

 

On a different note, people talk about the "bubble" bursting in football, is this window what it looks like? Or at least the the first step? 

[r0cafella]

The athletic podcast today is discussing this and it’s already full of inaccuracies  

 

The conflation between fairness and being able to afford is really don’t my head in and boy do the media love to push it. 
 

Fucking hell Ollie Kay is as thick as mince. The reason the likes of Villa might have to sell a Ramsey is because of FFP, of course they wouldn’t want but ultimately it’s the only way for them to push forward and not stagnate. Thickos like Kay always use the most extreme example which is Chelsea to push a narrative which unsurprisingly suites the largest teams. 

 

 

Edited February 2 by r0cafella

[r0cafella]

3 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Would relying on youth not leave you vulnerable if the talent wasn't coming through? Shearer was the last world class player to come through North of the M62 (North East & Scotland). Since Shearer it's been a virtual wasteland, absolute no comparison to what went before. 

 

On a different note, people talk about the "bubble" bursting in football, is this window what it looks like? Or at least the the first step? 

People who say the bubble will burst have been saying it since the formation of the premier league, they’ve been shown to be inaccurate thus far as revenue continues to grow. 

[macphisto]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

People who say the bubble will burst have been saying it since the formation of the premier league, they’ve been shown to be inaccurate thus far as revenue continues to grow. 

Yes, but to have a January transfer that is the lowest in 10 years (I saw on Twitter somewhere) is very strange. Maybe it's an anomaly and we'll return to somewhere near the norm. If this is the new norm, far too early to draw any conclusions, then a lot of clubs who rely on transfers could go bust. Obviously the Football League would suffer but also French and Spanish teams too given the number in the Premiership. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, macphisto said:

Yes, but to have a January transfer that is the lowest in 10 years (I saw on Twitter somewhere) is very strange. Maybe it's an anomaly and we'll return to somewhere near the norm. If this is the new norm, far too early to draw any conclusions, then a lot of clubs who rely on transfers could go bust. Obviously the Football League would suffer but also French and Spanish teams too given the number in the Premiership. 

It’s not strange, the clubs who make the market and inject liquidity all aren’t allowed to due to FFP. money circulates and it has to be injected somewhere unfortunately the rules prevented that in this window. To be clear; it’s not a lack of money issue that has prevented spending this window, it’s the rules which means you blow the budget your getting points docked. 
 

Ultimately, if the contraction was to continue for multiple windows then yes, a lot of clubs would go bust but the situation will ease in the premier league after July 1st. 

[macphisto]

13 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

It’s not strange, the clubs who make the market and inject liquidity all aren’t allowed to due to FFP. money circulates and it has to be injected somewhere unfortunately the rules prevented that in this window. To be clear; it’s not a lack of money issue that has prevented spending this window, it’s the rules which means you blow the budget your getting points docked. 
 

Ultimately, if the contraction was to continue for multiple windows then yes, a lot of clubs would go bust but the situation will ease in the premier league after July 1st. 

Radically new behavior is not strange? These rules are not new and there are plenty of clubs who have money and could have spent it. 

[r0cafella]

3 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Radically new behavior is not strange? These rules are not new and there are plenty of clubs who have money and could have spent it. 

They weren’t taken seriously before Everton, also the Covid losses which they could include definitely kicked the can down the road. The rules now have teeth so obviously the behaviour has changed.