Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[Unbelievable]

6 minutes ago, El Prontonise said:

 

Exactly he wasn't undervalued in the whole market, it's just there were others who were clearly overvalued.

To a market where he went, and where many clubs are owned by the same owners as our club. He was undervalued vs what we could have got away with if PIF had wanted to use a loophole. It’s not a difficult concept ffs.

[macphisto]

We're missing the point a bit with regards to ASM, when looking at our income as a whole FMV is not the issue at the moment. 

 

Look at our list of sponsors, it's tiny when compared to other clubs (Man City & Man U as examples). If PIF want to pump money into the club then why have we not got similar deals at FMV rates? This, together with lack of progress on a training ground, makes me suspect that maybe PIF will not throw money at the club similar to Man City and PSG.

 

Is the priority now more about getting a Saudi Club into the Champions League to eventually win it rather than Newcastle? 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, macphisto said:

We're missing the point a bit with regards to ASM, when looking at our income as a whole FMV is not the issue at the moment. 

 

Look at our list of sponsors, it's tiny when compared to other clubs (Man City & Man U as examples). If PIF want to pump money into the club then why have we not got similar deals at FMV rates? This, together with lack of progress on a training ground, makes me suspect that maybe PIF will not throw money at the club similar to Man City and PSG.

 

Is the priority now more about getting a Saudi Club into the Champions League to eventually win it rather than Newcastle? 

It is probably “less suspect” if built over time rather than all in one go. 
 

They’ll get there

[Guest]

We still have a relatively small commercial team but they’ve just made a bunch of new hires. I’m positive in the next year a lot of progress will be made on the commercial side

[macphisto]

5 minutes ago, Jack27 said:

It is probably “less suspect” if built over time rather than all in one go. 
 

They’ll get there

I hope you're right but if it is with Saudi companies then they might as well have done it from the start as they'll still get flack.

 

I say I hope you're right, but at the same time I am more than happy with the new owners and what they've done without contradicting myself. I'm just challenging the idea that PIF have been prevented by FMV from putting in more money, they could easily have exploited other ways to put in another £20-£50 million in commercial income. 

[nufcnick]

25 minutes ago, macphisto said:

We're missing the point a bit with regards to ASM, when looking at our income as a whole FMV is not the issue at the moment. 

 

Look at our list of sponsors, it's tiny when compared to other clubs (Man City & Man U as examples). If PIF want to pump money into the club then why have we not got similar deals at FMV rates? This, together with lack of progress on a training ground, makes me suspect that maybe PIF will not throw money at the club similar to Man City and PSG.

 

Is the priority now more about getting a Saudi Club into the Champions League to eventually win it rather than Newcastle? 

What part are people not grasping, this is not a vanity project(city) for the Saudis it’s a long term investment 

[macphisto]

12 minutes ago, nufcnick said:

What part are people not grasping, this is not a vanity project(city) for the Saudis it’s a long term investment 

No doubt but how is the return being measured? Not strictly in monetary terms directly related to Newcastle as there's much easier ways to make money and avoid the hassle they've had in purchasing and now running the club. Also if you take it at face value related to the club then FMV is a non-issue as they want to run it organically. 

 

Irrespective the above points "long term investment" is a vacuous term, it means nothing as they can't say anything else. I'm sure City and PSG would say it's a long term investment too. Same for golf and the Saudi league. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, macphisto said:

This, together with lack of progress on a training ground

 

Current training ground has been improved, further improvements once the season ends (including expansion). These things take timel; from initial plan stage to completion of a new site can take up to decade. It might not be going as fast as we'd like, but its happening. You can't really tear the whole current infrastructure down, as there's no where else to go, so they have to do it in parts when they can. 

 

  

20 minutes ago, macphisto said:

No doubt but how is the return being measured?

"Sports washing" is one answer, ego boost could be another. Why does a rich person own anything extravagant? 

 

 

 

Edited April 18 by OCK

[Keegans Export]

It's also worth noting that, by all accounts, Staveley approached PIF rather than the other way round. I don't think it's been confirmed either way but the timeline suggests that she wanted to buy the club, couldn't do it, then decided to seek out some wealthy backers. That's different to PIF looking for a vanity project and using Staveley as a conduit to achieve it.

[Dr Jinx]

9 hours ago, Jaqen said:

ASM went for a fair price. I think the frustration lies that Saudi clubs were overpaying for deadwood at other sides. 

Well yes, agree there.. which was sort of my point. I’m not saying he was worth more than 28m.. just that we could have gotten more for him when you see the other deals that were done.

 

I can imagine that at a higher level in Saudi it was decided that NUFC would accept a lower fee to appear to be playing nice?

 

I wonder will that still remain true this summer. Hope it after all the dodgy deals some other clubs have been making.

[macphisto]

15 minutes ago, OCK said:

 

Current training ground has been improved, further improvements once the season ends (including expansion). These things take timel; from initial plan stage to completion of a new site can take up to decade. It might not be going as fast as we'd like, but its happening. You can't really tear the whole current infrastructure down, as there's no where else to go, so they have to do it in parts when they can. 

 

  

"Sports washing" is one answer, ego boost could be another. Why does a rich person own anything extravagant? 

 

 

 

 

I realise these things take time but I would have thought a lot of planning would have taken place prior to buying the club. What was it from attending the Liverpool game to taking over the club, 2-3 years? That's at least 4 years to plan for the training ground. I'd be surprised if they hadn't preliminary explored a new training ground prior to buying the club. 

 

I realise I sound impatient but it just feels like we're not doing all that we could to get to where the Chairman wants the club to be. 

 

As I said previously, I'm over the moon to finally have a club that's finally well run so no complaints if our objectives have changed. 

[HawK]

At least we're much easier to buy now than when Ashley was owner. 

[Ben]

The BBC have an article on Evertons 777 takeover, they are fucked, money is owed everywhere and the solution is to borrow more from loads of different places, what a fuckin mess, relegation could be the finish for them, even if they stay up all of their best players will have to go.

[r0cafella]

11 minutes ago, Ben said:

The BBC have an article on Evertons 777 takeover, they are fucked, money is owed everywhere and the solution is to borrow more from loads of different places, what a fuckin mess, relegation could be the finish for them, even if they stay up all of their best players will have to go.

This is obviously false, FFP is the great protector which stops clubs from going bust. 

[The Prophet]

Well said.

[Ikon]

1 hour ago, The Prophet said:

Well said.

Absolutely fucking spot on. Very much enjoyed listening to that while at the same time feel very frustrated. Good initiative from the guy. Need more noise like this. Thanks for sharing. 

[Geordie_once_removed]

There is a total disconnect between the current cost of so many aspects of modern football, from player fees and wages to compensation for sacking coaches/managers, and the PSR limits that the rules are potentially pushing more clubs towards insolvency. There is a potential case study of this with Everton but even more so Leicester.  They were on the cusp of Champions League in 19/20 and 20/21. Last season they were surprisingly relegated and weren't financially set up for it, you can't be if you are ambitious and looking to reach Europe.  They now look like they might go up but they could be immediately given a points deduction due to Premier League PSR rules. This would make them highly like to face another relegation and that could result in them getting even more points deductions and you can see the situation spiralling from there. This for a club that for several years was held up as a model for how to be responsibly ambitious.

 

 

Edited April 21 by Geordie_once_removed
Sausage fingers

[Dr. TC]

Yeah, I have little sympathy for Everton, but punishing Leicester for having the temerity to try and compete with their 'betters' just sums up everything that is wrong with the system. 

[Thumbheed]

Can see Forest going for the nuclear option.

[FloydianMag]

15 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

Can see Forest going for the nuclear option.

If they did what a ball ache for the PL if FFP is ruled to be anti competitive and unlawful. Especially if Forest were relegated due to points deducted for breaches of the rules!

[Thumbheed]

22 minutes ago, FloydianMag said:

If they did what a ball ache for the PL if FFP is ruled to be anti competitive and unlawful. Especially if Forest were relegated due to points deducted for breaches of the rules!

 

I'm surprised they've been so resrained with updating it. It's a house of cards and everyone knows it.

[TheBrownBottle]

On 18/04/2024 at 17:54, Keegans Export said:

It's also worth noting that, by all accounts, Staveley approached PIF rather than the other way round. I don't think it's been confirmed either way but the timeline suggests that she wanted to buy the club, couldn't do it, then decided to seek out some wealthy backers. That's different to PIF looking for a vanity project and using Staveley as a conduit to achieve it.

True, but from memory didn’t Staveley say that PIF were looking to buy into football - and she presented NUFC and basically sold them on the idea that this was the club to buy?

[McDog]

23 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

True, but from memory didn’t Staveley say that PIF were looking to buy into football - and she presented NUFC and basically sold them on the idea that this was the club to buy?

 

 

She was also right to be fair. Didn't they pay 300M? Peanuts.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, McDog said:

 

 

She was also right to be fair. Didn't they pay 300M? Peanuts.

Yeah, I think she was right too.  Ashley’s reign had basically bottomed-out our value.  A paint job and some TLC would likely have doubled the value relatively quickly. 

[lovejoy]

7 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yeah, I think she was right too.  Ashley’s reign had basically bottomed-out our value.  A paint job and some TLC would likely have doubled the value relatively quickly. 

I honestly think it doubled overnight (as you say).

 

Buying us was a no brainer for anyone. The way Ashley ran it was just bizarre from a business perspective.

 

He did well out of it, obviously, but it was so simple to do well out of it and increase the value at the same time.

 

Weird.