Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, 54 said:

That is literally all your opinion though and not fact, and you can just as well make arguments against what you're saying. 

• In the last set of accounts our revenue had gone up 39% from the previous year, and that's not including the Adidas deal with is another £30m-£40m dependent on who you listen too, that's not exactly awful like some make out. 
• The Training ground has been redeveloped and extended completely since they took over, they've bought the adjacent land off Northumberland FA, and have already mentioned that they're looking for land to build a new facility.
• Stadiums don't grow on trees, and going through planning as thoroughly as possible to ensure we stay in and around where SJP is, talking to stakeholders in the area etc. Its not dramatic to say that this decision is going to define and shape the club over the next century, it's paramount they get it right, and I would much rather they take there time and and do so that say build a cookie cutter facility on the each of the city.
• You mean the same hole that has given us as supporters some of the best memories in the last 20 years, got us from 20th to 4th in 18 months. Yes we may have had to sell a few young prospects that I really liked the look of, but I wouldn't trade anything that Staveley did for anything. As a fan who gives a shit about finances if emotionally we get to experience ecstatic moments.

You say there is a lack of progress, but its actually the complete opposite, they inherited a shell of a club, and have built it back up. People seem to forget that.

These are all easy things to do and/or things led by Staveley. 
 

Ashley was such a bad owner that we had lots of low hanging fruit.  We’ve picked nearly all of those. Now comes the stuff that requires some real savvy.  

[The College Dropout]

Just now, et tu brute said:

I don't go on guesswork maybe you should try doing that also. Every company in the world make mistakes or could have done things better. It's the end result what matters. 

Ok cool. 
 

Sat perfectly midtable. With a talented but unbalanced squad. Didn’t sign anyone in the summer to start.  Constant talk of needing to sell to buy.  No plans in motion that will significant increase revenues. Maybe waiting for another club to win a court case.  Atmosphere in the club has soured in the last 4 months. Hired a DoF in July, not on the same page with manager in August. Want a top 6 finish on a top 8 wage bill. 
 

Let’s see where we are come May and June. 

[et tu brute]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Ok cool. 
 

Sat perfectly midtable. With a talented but unbalanced squad. Didn’t sign anyone in the summer to start.  Constant talk of needing to sell to buy.  No plans in motion that will significant increase revenues. Maybe waiting for another club to win a court case.  Atmosphere in the club has soured in the last 4 months. Hired a DoF in July, not on the same page with manager in August. Want a top 6 finish on a top 8 wage bill. 
 

Let’s see where we are come May and June. 

[Lotus]

3 hours ago, et tu brute said:

It’s funny because TCD has a fairly pragmatic outlook about it all. I doubt he’s losing any sleep. 
And it very easy to  say ‘January’s the real test’ and the NY may bring some v good news.

What is categorical though is, we haven’t any plans actually laid out and approved and for a training ground as of yet. We do not have a noice money deal for sponsorship of our current training ground. Due diligence still ongoing re: new stadium- so, still ongoing. Takes time, totally understand it. Plans and announcements could arrive at any minute, still haven’t as of right now though. 
So things may change in a major or minor way at some point in the future, near or far. We can speculate on the timing and impact of that. 3 years in though and no foundations dug, bricks laid, etc. That’s not a dummy spit, it’s a clear statement of fact. I’m not overly irritated by it. If it’s another 3 years I’ll be disappointed but not surprised. They are who they are and they may move heaven and earth tomorrow or fuck about doing nothing much til 2030. All the factors that may influence either have just as much likelihood of being nothing about football (imo).
It’s Saudinger’s cat until it isn’t.

[PauloGeordio]

9 minutes ago, Lotus said:

It’s funny because TCD has a fairly pragmatic outlook about it all. I doubt he’s losing any sleep. 
And it very easy to  say ‘January’s the real test’ and the NY may bring some v good news.

What is categorical though is, we haven’t any plans actually laid out and approved and for a training ground as of yet. We do not have a noice money deal for sponsorship of our current training ground. Due diligence still ongoing re: new stadium- so, still ongoing. Takes time, totally understand it. Plans and announcements could arrive at any minute, still haven’t as of right now though. 
So things may change in a major or minor way at some point in the future, near or far. We can speculate on the timing and impact of that. 3 years in though and no foundations dug, bricks laid, etc. That’s not a dummy spit, it’s a clear statement of fact. I’m not overly irritated by it. If it’s another 3 years I’ll be disappointed but not surprised. They are who they are and they may move heaven and earth tomorrow or fuck about doing nothing much til 2030. All the factors that may influence either have just as much likelihood of being nothing about football (imo).
It’s Saudinger’s cat until it isn’t.

“Did you feel smarter or dumber watching this video? Me: Yes”

[Lotus]

[TRon]

6 hours ago, Lotus said:

I worked directly with and for Saudis for a fair few years. My own experience, and I think that shared by some better placed posters here who’ve actually worked in the Kingdom is that they are a fantastically uninspired group. Nothing innovative, no real drive, no piercing acumen. The higher up the worse it got. When there is just so much money sloshing around a country,  more than they could ever spend and oodles of cultural kudos as custodians of the Holy Mosques. There isn’t much left to achieve. I think it limits ambition. It doesn’t look like you can get anywhere unless you’re very well connected and if you’re very well connected, you don’t need to go anywhere because you’ve already arrived. 
The hardest I’ve seen a Saudi ‘try’ is to tell his underlings to give 200% instead of 100%. The notion of giving %100 so alien they think it possible to double it.

Some of the most charming people I’ve met for balance. 

But, when you’re a gazzilionaire  everything you buy or try is just a whim. It’s just a distraction from the monotony of exuberant wealth.

 

That all rings very true, but how relevant is it to Newcastle United? If it was Yasir or one of his underlings running the football club I could maybe agree that maybe everyone is just sitting back in their white robes and flip flops wondering why we haven't won the league. But haven't we signed really top class staff to run the club and make those sort of decisions?

[Lotus]

Just now, TRon said:

 

That all rings very true, but how relevant is it to Newcastle United? If it was Yasir or one of his underlings running the football club I could maybe agree that maybe everyone is just sitting back in their white robes and flip flops wondering why we haven't won the league. But haven't we signed really top class staff to run the club and make those sort of decisions?

Yeah, that’s what I wanted to happen. I think I remember Staveley saying though that decisions of consequence are approved or not by PIF. Someone please correct me if I’ve got this wrong.

Also, the lack of moves screams Saudi. So, with only that to go on, walk like a duck, etc.

[SUPERTOON]

4 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

That all rings very true, but how relevant is it to Newcastle United? If it was Yasir or one of his underlings running the football club I could maybe agree that maybe everyone is just sitting back in their white robes and flip flops wondering why we haven't won the league. But haven't we signed really top class staff to run the club and make those sort of decisions?

All decisions are signed off by the Saudis. Apparently takes them a while.

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

All decisions are signed off by the Saudis. Apparently takes them a while.

 

Yes I get that, it's been mentioned a few times previously. But it just means things would take a bit longer, doesn't mean they won't get done. They pushed a lot of boats out to get ownership of a PL club, even to the extent making peace with their bitter rivals across the border.

 

Slow pace of development doesn't really bother me that much, what would be more concerning is if they have lost interest and moved onto some less problematic project where there are not so many hurdles chucked in front of them.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, TRon said:

 

Yes I get that, it's been mentioned a few times previously. But it just means things would take a bit longer, doesn't mean they won't get done. They pushed a lot of boats out to get ownership of a PL club, even to the extent making peace with their bitter rivals across the border.

 

Slow pace of development doesn't really bother me that much, what would be more concerning is if they have lost interest and moved onto some less problematic project where there are not so many hurdles chucked in front of them.

For me it’s all going to be answered when we get stadium news (if we ever get it).

[et tu brute]

2 hours ago, Lotus said:

It’s funny because TCD has a fairly pragmatic outlook about it all. I doubt he’s losing any sleep. 
And it very easy to  say ‘January’s the real test’ and the NY may bring some v good news.

What is categorical though is, we haven’t any plans actually laid out and approved and for a training ground as of yet. We do not have a noice money deal for sponsorship of our current training ground. Due diligence still ongoing re: new stadium- so, still ongoing. Takes time, totally understand it. Plans and announcements could arrive at any minute, still haven’t as of right now though. 
So things may change in a major or minor way at some point in the future, near or far. We can speculate on the timing and impact of that. 3 years in though and no foundations dug, bricks laid, etc. That’s not a dummy spit, it’s a clear statement of fact. I’m not overly irritated by it. If it’s another 3 years I’ll be disappointed but not surprised. They are who they are and they may move heaven and earth tomorrow or fuck about doing nothing much til 2030. All the factors that may influence either have just as much likelihood of being nothing about football (imo).
It’s Saudinger’s cat until it isn’t.

So basically again you're saying you haven't a clue either what is going to happen. Why should the club lay out plans until they are finalised and confirmed. It's a business first and foremost. When the announcements are made, then people can vent their frustration or show their positivity. Opinions are being formed based on fuck all currently. We have had strong suggestions that we will be building a new stadium at a cost of two billion plus in more likelihood. That alone is a massive statement of intent at six times plus the cost the owners bought the club for. All I see when it comes to the owners is speculation based on nothing. Wait for the announcements and then discuss based on factual information. 

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

So basically again you're saying you haven't a clue either what is going to happen. Why should the club lay out plans until they are finalised and confirmed. It's a business first and foremost. When the announcements are made, then people can vent their frustration or show their positivity. Opinions are being formed based on fuck all currently. We have had strong suggestions that we will be building a new stadium at a cost of two billion plus in more likelihood. That alone is a massive statement of intent at six times plus the cost the owners bought the club for. All I see when it comes to the owners is speculation based on nothing. Wait for the announcements and then discuss based on factual information. 

Everything Lotus wrote is what mates of mine who’ve worked for VERY big clients in KSA have also said.  ‘Wait and see’ misses the point - this is how that country is run and operates.  Sometimes decisions are never made, sometimes they are made so late as to be ineffective.  Sitting on your hands is still an action.  Yes, the stadium would take time - but there is (and has been) radio silence generally (which plenty of us anticipated when the owners took over - again, it’s not a govt built on efficiency).  I think many expected that them having megabucks would mean that they’re all financial whizzes - they’re not.  NB PIF is worth less than Norway’s sovereign wealth fund - and Norway’s is built on North Sea oil rather than the insane volume produced by KSA.  Mainly because one of those funds is well-run …

[midds]

My main concern about the potential new ground is the fact that by the time they get around to announcing it yet another emergency set of rules will be introduced to incorporate the cost into PSR. I could well be being a little paranoid but I genuinely think they would do almost anything to stop Newcastle, they're capable of anything imo. As far as stadia are concerned Arsenal are sorted, Spurs too. Liverpool are about as big as they can expand to, Chelsea seem to find a way to spend what they like anyway despite Stamford Bridge looking a bit tatty which only leaves Man U. I'd not put it past that scruffy tramp to talk his way into getting a load of public money to either rebuild Old Trafford or get a new build. I think we need a decision sooner rather than later  

[et tu brute]

13 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Everything Lotus wrote is what mates of mine who’ve worked for VERY big clients in KSA have also said.  ‘Wait and see’ misses the point - this is how that country is run and operates.  Sometimes decisions are never made, sometimes they are made so late as to be ineffective.  Sitting on your hands is still an action.  Yes, the stadium would take time - but there is (and has been) radio silence generally (which plenty of us anticipated when the owners took over - again, it’s not a govt built on efficiency).  I think many expected that them having megabucks would mean that they’re all financial whizzes - they’re not.  NB PIF is worth less than Norway’s sovereign wealth fund - and Norway’s is built on North Sea oil rather than the insane volume produced by KSA.  Mainly because one of those funds is well-run …

With respect I couldn't give a toss what your mates say. I'll await the official announcements and then actual discussion based on factual information can then take place. You know that has always been my thought process as I've discussed this with you a few times before

[Stifler]

1 hour ago, midds said:

My main concern about the potential new ground is the fact that by the time they get around to announcing it yet another emergency set of rules will be introduced to incorporate the cost into PSR. I could well be being a little paranoid but I genuinely think they would do almost anything to stop Newcastle, they're capable of anything imo. As far as stadia are concerned Arsenal are sorted, Spurs too. Liverpool are about as big as they can expand to, Chelsea seem to find a way to spend what they like anyway despite Stamford Bridge looking a bit tatty which only leaves Man U. I'd not put it past that scruffy tramp to talk his way into getting a load of public money to either rebuild Old Trafford or get a new build. I think we need a decision sooner rather than later  

Arsenal are wanting to extend the Emirates, with 80k being the figure they want to be at. They can’t do that without also funding expensive projects to improve 2 Underground stations nearby though.

 

Chelsea have again been linked with a new stadium in the last week or so.

 

Liverpool still have at least 1 new stand to build.

 

Man Utd have a new stadium to build.

 

Outside of the top 6, Aston Villa also need to do something with their stadium, with latest rumours being that they may move away.

Crystal Palace wish to build a new £100m stand, and Leicester have similar plans.

 

Birmingham City are about to build a new stadium, and training campus, similar to Man City’s. Ok I know that they are in League One, but their owners seem to have ambition, and so far a bit of money.

 

On top of this, I have already mentioned about how the country is full of stadiums that have passed their life expectancy, and even clubs who build flat pack stadiums in the 90’s/00’s will be due a first round of TLC upgrades.

 

Like everyone else, I fear that they will try to bring that drawbridge up, but whilst these projects are in the pipeline, I can’t see them getting away with it, and I think if they do it, then football would just fall apart in this country. We can’t keep the stadia we have.

 

 

Edited Monday at 21:42 by Stifler

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, TRon said:

 

That all rings very true, but how relevant is it to Newcastle United? If it was Yasir or one of his underlings running the football club I could maybe agree that maybe everyone is just sitting back in their white robes and flip flops wondering why we haven't won the league. But haven't we signed really top class staff to run the club and make those sort of decisions?

How much is Yasir running things? 
 

I would prefer a Yasir underling that can talk to him everyday than some suit he’s hired. 

2 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Yes I get that, it's been mentioned a few times previously. But it just means things would take a bit longer, doesn't mean they won't get done. They pushed a lot of boats out to get ownership of a PL club, even to the extent making peace with their bitter rivals across the border.

 

Slow pace of development doesn't really bother me that much, what would be more concerning is if they have lost interest and moved onto some less problematic project where there are not so many hurdles chucked in front of them.

You can’t win in this football game being slow.  Opportunities will pass by. If you’re going to be slow working with a UK council - you will waste millions and months/years. 
 

 

Staveley and co. made mistakes but at least they were dynamic. You would’ve thought the Reubens would’ve helped expedite building infrastructure 

[The College Dropout]

No fear of training ground and stadium costs being incorporated.  These materially improve the economy.  

[TheBrownBottle]

27 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

With respect I couldn't give a toss what your mates say. I'll await the official announcements and then actual discussion based on factual information can then take place. You know that has always been my thought process as I've discussed this with you a few times before

I know it is - but in fairness, your timelines keep slipping  - you said you’d judge at the end of the summer.  It’s Xmas in a couple of weeks.  
 

The point is that official announcements may never occur.  We haven’t managed to onboard a training kit sponsor in three years, but I’m sure that with the big calls they’ll absolutely nail them. 

[bobbydazzla]

What if they announce a NEOM-esque mind blowing stadium the likes of which the world has never even dared to dream of 

 

The Sven Adult Books Magpie Megadome will be the 8th wonder of the world they’ll say 

Then like NEOM they slowly but surely roll back on all the mind blowing civil engineering promises and all we get is some new toilet doors on the Gallowgate 

 

 

Edited Monday at 21:18 by bobbydazzla

[Stifler]

24 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

If you’re going to be slow working with a UK council - you will waste millions and months/years. 
 

Staveley and co. made mistakes but at least they were dynamic. You would’ve thought the Reubens would’ve helped expedite building infrastructure 

I’m sorry, but what’s your alternative?

 

The club are going to have to work with the council for anything that they do. They will need to work with them and other partners in regards to transport solutions at the very least, and to see what will and won’t be likely to pass a planning application.

 

Pretty much all the latest rumours are that we plan on building a new stadium on Leazes Park (possibly including Castle Leazes). Anyone who has been a fan of ours for a decent amount of time will know of our past attempts to build on this location, and how controversial and difficult it will be. A lot of work will have to go into it to make it palatable, regardless it’s going get a few people vocally against, and gathering signatures at the SOL once again. The club will have to work with multiple stakeholders to get this through. It will take time.

They have also been looking at what can, and can’t be done. It’s not a simple question to ask, and yes it takes time. We are pretty much at the end of that stage now though.

I firmly believe the Reubens will have been the ones behind all the preparation etc on it, likely going off a Saudi remit of ‘make it the best, make it big, and make it so MBS can go to games in comfort and host his associates’.

[et tu brute]

40 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I know it is - but in fairness, your timelines keep slipping  - you said you’d judge at the end of the summer.  It’s Xmas in a couple of weeks.  
 

The point is that official announcements may never occur.  We haven’t managed to onboard a training kit sponsor in three years, but I’m sure that with the big calls they’ll absolutely nail them. 

A new stadium, new training ground and the court cases were always going to take time. I'm not like a little kid wanting his toys though. They have already mentioned that they will be coming out next year and if they don't (they will) then their commitment can start to be discussed.
 

Sponsorship deals will tie in when everything has been clarified with the Man City case. A new training ground was always going to be further down then line and that's why they spent millions updating Benton. The term once in a generation cost has also been stated, but I would imagine would mean training ground, stadium and a stadium for the lasses team (might not either). As for the new stadium I'm quite sure they could have announced an out of town one pretty quickly. However, if they are going down the lines of what the fans want, a new stadium within the city centre, then finding the necessary land and in all probability heated and objective-able discussions concerning building on green land, will take a considerable amount of time. St James is a no go as it's not economically viable with the cost, the big physical limitations, lost revenue and playing elsewhere during building work.

 

Not one person has had any factual information concerning why PIF aren't doing this and that, just pure hyperbole guesswork (I can't be bothered to check, but I'm pretty sure some were not keen on PIF being owners anyway). When we do have factual information, then we can all discuss the rights or wrongs in their decisions. 

 

 

Edited Monday at 21:48 by et tu brute

[TheBrownBottle]

36 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

What if they announce a NEOM-esque mind blowing stadium the likes of which the world has never even dared to dream of 

 

The Sven Adult Books Magpie Megadome will be the 8th wonder of the world they’ll say 

Then like NEOM they slowly but surely roll back on all the mind blowing civil engineering promises and all we get is some new toilet doors on the Gallowgate 

 

 

 

Tbf Sven’s business would boom if they sponsored the bog doors in the Gallowgate.  So at least one of those involved would still be winning. 

[Lotus]

3 hours ago, et tu brute said:

So basically again you're saying you haven't a clue either what is going to happen. Why should the club lay out plans until they are finalised and confirmed. It's a business first and foremost. When the announcements are made, then people can vent their frustration or show their positivity. Opinions are being formed based on fuck all currently. We have had strong suggestions that we will be building a new stadium at a cost of two billion plus in more likelihood. That alone is a massive statement of intent at six times plus the cost the owners bought the club for. All I see when it comes to the owners is speculation based on nothing. Wait for the announcements and then discuss based on factual information. 

of course I haven’t a doobies. I’ve said so. What I know is what has and hasn’t happened so far and the rest I’m purely speculating as I had nothing better to do at the time then type shit out on the internet. It’s what the forum’s for, man!
Only thing I’d say is, it’s not speculation based on nothing. It’s based on what they have and haven’t done. There evidentially is no new training ground. No sponsorship for the current training ground. That’s not arguing why not, just clearly pointing out there isn’t any. I’ve no doubt the ‘why not’ list is a long one. If we knew them all, some we’d feel are valid some we would feel are less so. As with everything. 

[huss9]

wish they'd been as dynamic with us as they have been with LIV.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:10 by huss9