Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[MagCA]

I would hardly say a jump from 54m to 90m on the commercial side is failing. 

[Sibierski]

14 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

Failing a bit on the commercials side. Who knew?

I mean, as much as we want to cook the books, we’re a side that has one season in Europe in past decade and no cups. Consistent seasons in Europe, with a cup, that will start to shoot towards £250m+ mark by end of decade.

 

Then a new stadium will help drive it further as we move into 2030.

 

There will be limits to what we can do, why we need to get off the field spot on for players to keep us in that consistent top 6 group and the increased commercial that comes with it.

[TBG]

Absolutely falling  behind on the commercial side.

 

Can see why so many fans gets mad at Adidas/the club for regularly coming out with clothing that they aren't forced to buy 

[gdm]

16 minutes ago, TBG said:

Absolutely falling  behind on the commercial side.

 

Can see why so many fans gets mad at Adidas/the club for regularly coming out with clothing that they aren't forced to buy 

a hoodie or shirt from the club barely makes a dent. By time adidas get their cut. Adidas take the majority of the money per shirt sold. Newcastle get about 10% of it.

 

where the club make their money is in the pre agreed sponsorship deal with adidas 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by gdm

[Turnbull2000]

We're absolutely miles behind Not even sure we can close the gap. The breakaway six established themselves just at the right time in terms of global expansion of the game and obviously before rules came in to neuter the laggards.

[gdm]

Have to wonder why we have no training ground sponsor, training kit sponsor, fuck even naming rights for the stadium short term if we are planning to move. 3 sponsorship opportunities that would bring millions in

[High Five o]

7 minutes ago, gdm said:

Have to wonder why we have no training ground sponsor, training kit sponsor, fuck even naming rights for the stadium short term if we are planning to move. 3 sponsorship opportunities that would bring millions in

This i agree with 100%.

 

And a tractor parter, of course.

[MagCA]

Almost like we haven’t seen massive regulatory issues with APT recently, that haven’t been fully resolved. 
 

They’ll be working on it, they’ve got things right so far. Trusting in the process. 

[janpawel]

Insane how much Manu pull in despite being shite for an age. 

 

Imagine how much revenue they'd generate if they were ran like city of madrid

[The Prophet]

It seems the commercial side of things is ticking along nicely. Impressive when you consider it has been built up from scratch.

 

Still lots of avenues to explore too. It's rough right now, but give them a few years and I don't think we'll be far off Spurs.

[TheBrownBottle]

7 minutes ago, MagCA said:

Almost like we haven’t seen massive regulatory issues with APT recently, that haven’t been fully resolved. 
 

They’ll be working on it, they’ve got things right so far. Trusting in the process. 

It doesn’t take three years to find a training kit sponsor, process or not tbf.  ‘Process’ is a byword for ‘inefficient’ when it comes to KSA - I think that was Staveley’s term to cover the fact that the PIF will take forever to makes decisions. 

[Groundhog63]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

It seems the commercial side of things is ticking along nicely. Impressive when you consider it has been built up from scratch.

 

Still lots of avenues to explore too. It's rough right now, but give them a few years and I don't think we'll be far off Spurs.

 

Agreed. You have to wonder why the, obvs, earners have been established? These Training Ground Sponsors, Training Kit? Stadium? 

Rather than think, like some, that Silverstone is just scratching his arse I'm more thinking they've been, deliberately, held back. 

[Sibierski]

15 minutes ago, janpawel said:

Insane how much Manu pull in despite being shite for an age. 

 

They’ll always remain top 8, unless TV deal collapsed, but they’re sliding down and it’s not far fetched to think come end of this decade they will be 8th unless things suddenly improve which no-one 10 years ago could ever see happening.

 

Barca will leapfrog up there once stadium is built. Bundesliga think have got a new bigger deal so more money for Bayern. Arsenal I’m sure are coming up for sponsorship renewal and now they’re back regularly at top end should be a big increase and Liverpool are continuously increasing with the stadium redevelopments and from being successful.

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Sibierski

[Sibierski]

Also Chelsea must be desperate for a new stadium when you see even them being left behind these days. That for them would see match day and commercial increase by a collective minimum £150m you’d assume (£100m match day and £50m stadium commercial).

[TheBrownBottle]

19 minutes ago, janpawel said:

Insane how much Manu pull in despite being shite for an age. 

 

Imagine how much revenue they'd generate if they were ran like city of madrid

Man Utd were still England’s biggest club when they hadn’t won a title in nearly three decades (and were relegated in that period) while Liverpool dominated the sport.  They’re still England’s biggest club, and it is hard to imagine circumstances where they wouldn’t be. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

8 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

It doesn’t take three years to find a training kit sponsor, process or not tbf.  ‘Process’ is a byword for ‘inefficient’ when it comes to KSA - I think that was Staveley’s term to cover the fact that the PIF will take forever to makes decisions. 

 

Is it not also a case making sure we don't undersell ourselves? If we accept whatever we can get right now it may set a precedent for future deals which could result in a much lower income. If we ourselves treat the positions such as 'training ground sponsor' as lucrative then surely we'll be far more likely to attract a lucrative sponsor further down the line. If we for example start accepting any old bollocks for pennies then that's what we'll be seen to value the sponsorship as ourselves.

 

Right?

[TRon]

6 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

Also Chelsea must be desperate for a new stadium when you see even them being left behind these days. That for them would see match day and commercial increase by a collective minimum £150m you’d assume (£100m match day and £50m stadium commercial).

 

 

Chelsea were a middling PL club before Abramovich, they had a stadium to reflect that. Maybe if they increased their capacity they could fill it, but I think local support must have dropped off a fair bit since they stopped winning stuff.

 

Also, how much would a new stadium cost in London? Where would they put it given we are a one club city and we seem limited in our options for a city centre site?

 

Not sure a new stadium would be on Boehly's list of priorities if profit is his motive.

[Paully]

There'll be a jump in matchday revenue after next season as loads of us are still on the price free deals - I think I currently pay £200 less than the lad I sit next to!

 

PSR is utter shit like - how on earth do we close the gap on the cartel wankers?

 

 

 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

Is it not also a case making sure we don't undersell ourselves? If we accept whatever we can get right now it may set a precedent for future deals which could result in a much lower income. If we ourselves treat the positions such as 'training ground sponsor' as lucrative then surely we'll be far more likely to attract a lucrative sponsor further down the line. If we for example start accepting any old bollocks for pennies then that's what we'll be seen to value the sponsorship as ourselves.

 

Right?

I understand the point you’re making, but we already got ‘above market’ rates for Sela and Noon on the kit without any issues from the PL - because they were less than the ‘big six’.  No reason the same couldn’t have been achieved with other kit based sponsorship - I mean, what is market value for training kit sponsorship?  From memory noon are paying c.£9m per season to have themselves slapped on our sleeves - so perhaps £4-5m for a training kit?  Is the PL really going to block that?  Is that deal likely to be worth several times that in a few seasons?

 

A PIF-related companies could easily have sponsored the remaining low hanging fruit for ‘above market rates’ and no push back would have occurred.  The usual suspects are concerned about Aramco sponsoring the ground for £80m a season or other such nonsense.

 

And if PIF-related companies aren’t interested, then that’s when the commercial team come in - and it’s worth remembering that they had bot all to do with our big sponsors (kit manufacturers are different).

[gdm]

11 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

Is it not also a case making sure we don't undersell ourselves? If we accept whatever we can get right now it may set a precedent for future deals which could result in a much lower income. If we ourselves treat the positions such as 'training ground sponsor' as lucrative then surely we'll be far more likely to attract a lucrative sponsor further down the line. If we for example start accepting any old bollocks for pennies then that's what we'll be seen to value the sponsorship as ourselves.

 

Right?

Has to be a suitable middle ground. What’s better? 3 years with nothing and a big deal or 3 years with a decent deal with a view to better. 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Paully said:

There'll be a jump in matchday revenue after next season as loads of us are still on the price free deals - I think I currently pay £200 less than the lad I sit next to!

 

PSR is utter shit like - how on earth do we close the gap on the cartel wankers?

 

 

 

 

Based on what we can see at the moment, it isn’t clear if it’s possible to catch up with them.  The three London clubs have an immediate geographical/ economic advantage (and are far more successful), Man Utd and Liverpool are simply bigger clubs, and Man City got their financial ‘steroid boost’ at the right time, and are now in a secure position.

 

I don’t think we can catch Spurs financially - ever - but if we can get as close to them as possible, then we can keep ourselves challenging for trophies.  

[Unbelievable]

17 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

Is it not also a case making sure we don't undersell ourselves? If we accept whatever we can get right now it may set a precedent for future deals which could result in a much lower income. If we ourselves treat the positions such as 'training ground sponsor' as lucrative then surely we'll be far more likely to attract a lucrative sponsor further down the line. If we for example start accepting any old bollocks for pennies then that's what we'll be seen to value the sponsorship as ourselves.

 

Right?

Of course. Football finance expert Dave Powell pretty much confirmed this in this great Everything is Black and White podcast (around 28:50 mark)

 

Still we get the same posters every couple of days coming in to explain to us how our owners are “failing”

 

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Unbelievable

[gdm]

5 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

Of course. Football finance expert Dave Powell pretty much confirmed this in this great Everything is Black and White podcast:

 

Still we get the same posters every couple of days coming in to explain to us how our owners are “failing”

 

Who said they are failing? They have odds massively stacked against them 

[GEFAFWISP]

How long does that hold when you're talking years of lost revenue though? 3/5/10 years?

[TheBrownBottle]

6 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

Of course. Football finance expert Dave Powell pretty much confirmed this in this great Everything is Black and White podcast (around 28:50 mark)

 

Still we get the same posters every couple of days coming in to explain to us how our owners are “failing”

 

 

 

 

We don’t need to rely on ‘the market’.  Sela and Noon didn’t come from ‘the market’.