Match Atmosphere

[Shadow Puppets]

A long story about last night…

 

We arrived an hour before kick off to find a couple of older blokes (60+) in our seats, with his wife and mate in the seats directly in front.

 

We explained that they were our seats and was met with “you can sit anywhere you want at European games mate”. 
 

I knew that was bollocks, having been to all the away games this time, and a couple in the Pardew European run. Never come across that before. However, we went with it and sat in the seats next to him.

 

As you’d guess, then people came and told us to get out of their seats. He then told them to sit somewhere else as well etc. This went on another couple of times.

 

Eventually we got forcefully told (rightly) to sit in our correct seats, so we had to tell these blokes to move.

 

We were met with the following:

 

- he questioned how many loyalty points we had, and other people on our row, had.

- he bragged that he had 550 so he can “sit where he fucking wants”.

- when the lad next to us mentioned that he got his via hospitality, as we did, (which is a perfectly legitimate way to get tickets), he kicked off. “Of course. Fucking hospitality wankers… plastic prawn sandwich wankers”

- then his wife (absolute bellend) started verbally abusing us, telling us to fuck off… calling us plastic fans (despite me having a season ticket for 25 years, building around 200 loyalty points, before managing a company who own a box, therefore forgoing my loyalty points and ability to earn loyalty points).

We proceeded to tell them that we were sitting (standing) in OUR SEATS. He then moved along a couple of seats, only to find two women come and tell him to move again (because they were theirs).

 

Then he started mouthing off asking the older of the two women what the fuck she knows about football, to which her daughter defended her (having been going to games for nearly 50 years). The bellend wife then proceeded to get physical with the daughter, calling her a cunt and dragging her by the arm, almost pulling her over the seat in front, until we interjected and put her in her place.

 

It kicked off verbally for a while (everyone in the area on our side) until he, the wife, and his mates ended up standing on the stairs the entire game.

 

Irony of it all is they all stood in near silence all game. Absolute whoppers.

 

I guess what I’m trying to say is, we have some right entitled bellends in our crowd. Not the majority, thankfully, but some think that just because they’ve been going for a long time, they can do whatever the fuck they want and treat other fans however they want.

 

There’s also a basic lack of understanding on how the away ticket allocation works, and fans belittling or looking down on other fans.

 

Just to reiterate the situation that we are in… I know with 100% certainty that a maximum of 5% of the allocation for CL games goes to hospitality clients, maximum of 7% for PL games. That is no different to previous years. And there is some kind of misconception that “hospitality clients” means “entitled rich blokes”. Which is utter horseshit. Pretty much every box in St James is family or small business owned. Normal, passionate, fans, who happen to run successful businesses. People who are just as passionate, just as deserving of a ticket, as anyone else in most away ends, and most of which have previously built up massive loyalty with the club over decades.

 

The narrative that is being peddled on social media about the club giving bigger allocations to corporate, free tickets to YouTubers etc, is just toxic, and complete bullshit. It could all be solved by a simple news article on the website spelling out factually how allocations are broken down.

 

Despite all of the above, we had a mint night. Incredibly proud of the lads.

[SteV]

3 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

A long story about last night…

 

We arrived an hour before kick off to find a couple of older blokes (60+) in our seats, with his wife and mate in the seats directly in front.

 

We explained that they were our seats and was met with “you can sit anywhere you want at European games mate”. 
 

I knew that was bollocks, having been to all the away games this time, and a couple in the Pardew European run. Never come across that before. However, we went with it and sat in the seats next to him.

 

As you’d guess, then people came and told us to get out of their seats. He then told them to sit somewhere else as well etc. This went on another couple of times.

 

Eventually we got forcefully told (rightly) to sit in our correct seats, so we had to tell these blokes to move.

 

We were met with the following:

 

- he questioned how many loyalty points we had, and other people on our row, had.

- he bragged that he had 550 so he can “sit where he fucking wants”.

- when the lad next to us mentioned that he got his via hospitality, as we did, (which is a perfectly legitimate way to get tickets), he kicked off. “Of course. Fucking hospitality wankers… plastic prawn sandwich wankers”

- then his wife (absolute bellend) started verbally abusing us, telling us to fuck off… calling us plastic fans (despite me having a season ticket for 25 years, building around 200 loyalty points, before managing a company who own a box, therefore forgoing my loyalty points and ability to earn loyalty points).

We proceeded to tell them that we were sitting (standing) in OUR SEATS. He then moved along a couple of seats, only to find two women come and tell him to move again (because they were theirs).

 

Then he started mouthing off asking the older of the two women what the fuck she knows about football, to which her daughter defended her (having been going to games for nearly 50 years). The bellend wife then proceeded to get physical with the daughter, calling her a cunt and dragging her by the arm, almost pulling her over the seat in front, until we interjected and put her in her place.

 

It kicked off verbally for a while (everyone in the area on our side) until he, the wife, and his mates ended up standing on the stairs the entire game.

 

Irony of it all is they all stood in near silence all game. Absolute whoppers.

 

I guess what I’m trying to say is, we have some right entitled bellends in our crowd. Not the majority, thankfully, but some think that just because they’ve been going for a long time, they can do whatever the fuck they want and treat other fans however they want.

 

There’s also a basic lack of understanding on how the away ticket allocation works, and fans belittling or looking down on other fans.

 

Just to reiterate the situation that we are in… I know with 100% certainty that a maximum of 5% of the allocation for CL games goes to hospitality clients, maximum of 7% for PL games. That is no different to previous years. And there is some kind of misconception that “hospitality clients” means “entitled rich blokes”. Which is utter horseshit. Pretty much every box in St James is family or small business owned. Normal, passionate, fans, who happen to run successful businesses. People who are just as passionate, just as deserving of a ticket, as anyone else in most away ends, and most of which have previously built up massive loyalty with the club over decades.

 

The narrative that is being peddled on social media about the club giving bigger allocations to corporate, free tickets to YouTubers etc, is just toxic, and complete bullshit. It could all be solved by a simple news article on the website spelling out factually how allocations are broken down.

 

Despite all of the above, we had a mint night. Incredibly proud of the lads.

Whilst the specifics of your story might differ, the general theme of people getting uppity about how other people are getting tickets is something that’s becoming more and more prevalent. As you say, fuelled by social media (isn’t everything?).

 

Completely agree that more transparency around ticketing would alleviate a lot of this. They don’t even have to go into massive detail. Just something like:

 

Total allocation - X

Sponsors - X

Players and Staff - X

Corporate - X 

Fans (loyalty points) - X

 

Aye, people would probably still moan like fuck, but at least it would be grounded in realism, rather than made up bollocks someone seen on Twitter.

 

When I was at the away fan forum before the start of the season, I made this exact point on transparency. Doesn’t really seem to have been picked up though.

 

Good to hear you enjoyed regardless though.

[Whitley mag]

There’s always been a corporate allocation and if it’s fixed at the same level as previously fair enough, but there’s a lot adamant that for instance a far larger chunk than 7% haven’t gone on sale for Luton ?

 

The main source of anger stems from these ID checks though and what seems to be generally accepted as a decline in the away atmosphere this season.

 

There’s also been empty seats at away games which has annoyed many, however is this due to corporate tickets not being taken up and then re-sold by club due to timescales, or season ticket holders bagging loyalty points but not fancying the trek to Brighton for instance.

 

My thought is that if it’s the latter the club simply freeze all season ticket loyalty points where they are now and it might eradicate that problem until a better solution is found.

 

If season ticket holders can’t make the away game due to a genuine reason, they should be allowed a maximum of 3 games a season when they can pass ticket on to save seat going empty.

 

Agree with the above though that club need to be transparent, as ticketing is the only area new ownership haven’t covered themselves in glory.

[Shadow Puppets]

16 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

There’s always been a corporate allocation and if it’s fixed at the same level as previously fair enough, but there’s a lot adamant that for instance a far larger chunk than 7% haven’t gone on sale for Luton ?

 

The main source of anger stems from these ID checks though and what seems to be generally accepted as a decline in the away atmosphere this season.

 

There’s also been empty seats at away games which has annoyed many, however is this due to corporate tickets not being taken up and then re-sold by club due to timescales, or season ticket holders bagging loyalty points but not fancying the trek to Brighton for instance.

 

My thought is that if it’s the latter the club simply freeze all season ticket loyalty points where they are now and it might eradicate that problem until a better solution is found.

 

If season ticket holders can’t make the away game due to a genuine reason, they should be allowed a maximum of 3 games a season when they can pass ticket on to save seat going empty.

 

Agree with the above though that club need to be transparent, as ticketing is the only area new ownership haven’t covered themselves in glory.

 

The people claiming stuff about Luton are, again, making it up. Plucking it out of their arse to suit whatever it is they’re angry about.
 

I was speaking with our hospitality rep today about that exact thing (literally 5 hours ago at Paris airport) and they reiterated, 100%, that a maximum of 7% goes to hospitality for ALL PL games. He specifically cited the Luton game as an example of how angry he gets seeing people make stuff up about it.

 

And no, the empty seats are unlikely to be because of corporate people. They sell out their small allocation each time, and there’s no benefit to a corporate client to buy the ticket and not show up (they don’t earn loyalty points on them so why buy and not show?). It’s much more likely, in my opinion, that due to the new rules about who you can and can’t pass your tickets onto, that season ticket holders might be buying tickets to continue building loyalty, but perhaps not actually always using them.

 

It really does just need need someone to post a proper breakdown of how it works so people can stop banging on about it.

[Ronaldo]

Loyalty points is the new Brexit. 

[Wallsendmag]

In response the @Shadow Puppetsstory there I've got to say I went to probably 15 or so away European games in the 00s and the rule then was just stand where you want when you get in the ground. Never been to any of the 3 this season but back then nobody even looked for their allocated seat so that rule must have changed.

[SteV]

48 minutes ago, TheDimpleboy said:

 

We got 1100 allocation for Luton and only 650 went on sale on the site. So where are the other 450?

A good question, and absolutely emphasises the need for transparency. 
 

If I was the corporate/hospitality lead and I was getting all the heat for taking all the away tickets, but I was only getting the %’s @Shadow Puppets talks about, I’d be knocking on someone’s door telling them to start making public where the tickets were actually going.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by SteV

[Shadow Puppets]

54 minutes ago, TheDimpleboy said:

 

We got 1100 allocation for Luton and only 650 went on sale on the site. So where are the other 450?

I have no idea, other than that 75 tickets went to hospitality clients. I can verify that, with 1000% certainty…. Partly because of my conversations with the hospitality team who I know well… and partly because I entered the hospitality ballot and didn’t get one (I get them almost every time I enter that ballot, but didn’t for Luton specifically because their allocation was so small.).

 

No idea where the others went ?‍♂️

 

14 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

In response the @Shadow Puppetsstory there I've got to say I went to probably 15 or so away European games in the 00s and the rule then was just stand where you want when you get in the ground. Never been to any of the 3 this season but back then nobody even looked for their allocated seat so that rule must have changed.

 

Well I can only go on my own experience, and EVERYONE (20-30 people in the immediate vicinity) was telling this family to sit in their own seats… everyone was kicking off at them, so as far as I can tell we were well within our right. I mean it’s just common sense isn’t it, as well… if you just sit where you feel like sitting, people who travelled together / paid to sit together, will end up getting split up.

 

17 minutes ago, SteV said:

A good question, and absolutely emphasises the need for transparency. 
 

If I was the corporate/hospitality lead and I was getting all the heat for taking all the away tickets, but I was only getting the %’s @Shadow Puppets talks about, I’d be knocking on someone’s door telling them to start making public where the tickets were actually going.

 

 

 

They are pushing for transparency on it ?

 

 

[Wallsendmag]

5 minutes ago, TheDimpleboy said:

 

Aye while the people in question sound like bellends, I'd be pissed off getting whinged at to go to my allocated seat at an away game like

 

Domestic away games we would generally head to our allocated seat. No problem if there was someone there theyd justbhace to bunch up a bit, but not once have I ever even took notice of my seat number on my ticket for a Euro away!

[bobbydazzla]

If there's nothing to hide and the Twitter twats are causing aggro for no reason then it could be rectified today by the club releasing some numbers that relate to both home and away ticketing.

 

Home: Number of non-ST seats available (assuming full allocation for the away side), number of members

Away: % of tickets available to ST holders

 

It's not commercially sensitive to share that info publicly

 

With their silence on the matter all they're doing is fanning the flames of discontent and suspicion

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by bobbydazzla

[Wallsendmag]

1 minute ago, Shadow Puppets said:

I have no idea, other than that 75 tickets went to hospitality clients. I can verify that, with 1000% certainty…. Partly because of my conversations with the hospitality team who I know well… and partly because I entered the hospitality ballot and didn’t get one (I get them almost every time I enter that ballot, but didn’t for Luton specifically because their allocation was so small.).

 

No idea where the others went ?‍♂️

 

 

Well I can only go on my own experience, and EVERYONE (20-30 people in the immediate vicinity) was telling this family to sit in their own seats… everyone was kicking off at them, so as far as I can tell we were well within our right. I mean it’s just common sense isn’t it, as well… if you just sit where you feel like sitting, people who travelled together / paid to sit together, will end up getting split up.

 

They are pushing for transparency on it ?

 

 

 

As I say this must be a new phenomenon with our supporters as, not once has this happened at any of the 15 or so Euro aways I went to in the 00s. People just got in and stood where they liked. I mean half the places the seats weren't even numbered anyway!

[Shadow Puppets]

6 minutes ago, TheDimpleboy said:

 

Aye while the people in question sound like bellends, I'd be pissed off getting whinged at to go to my allocated seat at an away game like

Why? I genuinely don’t understand that attitude like. I’ve been to around 40 away games over the years, either on my old season ticket or via hospitality ballots, and Tuesday night was the only time we’ve ever been told to sit somewhere else.

 

Same experience for our friends who go to 5+ away games a year. They’ve never experienced that.

 

Seems to me that a subsection of away fans, because they’ve been going for a long time, think they run their own rules for the away end.

 

[Smole08]

Stewards were telling people to sit wherever they wanted in Milan this year.

At Wolves the 3 rows near us were 2 deep with a bunch of lads who wanted to stand together, presumably a coach group, so I would say that's why some away ends have empty seats (maybe)

[Shadow Puppets]

3 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

As I say this must be a new phenomenon with our supporters as, not once has this happened at any of the 15 or so Euro aways I went to in the 00s. People just got in and stood where they liked. I mean half the places the seats weren't even numbered anyway!

Seems like a really weird, self entitled, attitude to have to be honest. “I’m going to sit/stand wherever I want”. If that attitude is replicated far and wide, then all you’re doing is pissing off other fans who want to sit/stand with their mates where they paid to sit.

 

And what you’re describing is probably the reason for the bother in Dortmund. People going into the lower standing tier, when they didn’t have a ticket in there, causing a crush / ruckus.

[Shadow Puppets]

2 minutes ago, Smole08 said:

Stewards were telling people to sit wherever they wanted in Milan this year.

At Wolves the 3 rows near us were 2 deep with a bunch of lads who wanted to stand together, presumably a coach group, so I would say that's why some away ends have empty seats (maybe)

Maybe some rogue stewards. Wasn’t my experience at all.

[Shadow Puppets]

7 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

If there's nothing to hide and the Twitter twats are causing aggro for no reason then it could be rectified today by the club releasing some numbers that relate to both home and away ticketing.

 

Home: Number of non-ST seats available (assuming full allocation for the away side), number of members

Away: % of tickets available to ST holders

 

It's not commercially sensitive to share that info publicly

 

With their silence on the matter all they're doing is fanning the flames of discontent and suspicion

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. All I’m saying is, the problem, whatever it may be, is not stemming from the hospitality side of things.

 

As I say, they are pushing for transparency on it too.

[Smole08]

1 minute ago, Shadow Puppets said:

Maybe some rogue stewards. Wasn’t my experience at all.

Yeh I found it a bit weird and I did see one argument about it, we where left side looking down at the pitch, and pretty much anybody who was looking at their tickets to find their seats were told the same by numerous different stewards.

[Lush Vlad]

18 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

Seems like a really weird, self entitled, attitude to have to be honest. “I’m going to sit/stand wherever I want”. If that attitude is replicated far and wide, then all you’re doing is pissing off other fans who want to sit/stand with their mates where they paid to sit.

 

Hadn't really noticed it until last season, TBH and been going to a decent number of aways bar the Carver and Bruce days since 05.  But you do regularly get people just standing where they want.  

 

It's fine a lot of the time, as some grounds have plenty of space and stewards don't care much.  So you end up spread out a bit into the steps.  But if you were somewhere with busy stewards, like how White Hart Lane used to be.  Or a certain part of a cramped old stand like Craven Cottage.  It would be a pain in the arse.  Which it was last season at Fulham and Forest. 

 

Forest being a bit like how you described in Paris.  Some absolute SUPER fan, who can sit where he wants, as he's older and has gone to more games than me.  Only to then stand there in silence, occasionally chirping up to criticise our players.  Fulham was good fun, but they had keen stewards who kept clearing the stairways.  So it got a bit tight       

 

I usually go with 2-4 of us in total.  So as long as we can still be sat/stood together.  I'm not really that arsed.  But I do also think it's ignorant and cuntish when some fans end up across say two rows, expecting you to just disperse for them so they can be with their mates.  Which in turn would mean you're split up from your own mates.  Then have the gall to complain if you question them on it  

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Lush Vlad

[Coffee_Johnny]

10 hours ago, Shadow Puppets said:

A long story about last night…

 

We arrived an hour before kick off to find a couple of older blokes (60+) in our seats, with his wife and mate in the seats directly in front.

 

We explained that they were our seats and was met with “you can sit anywhere you want at European games mate”. 
 

I knew that was bollocks, having been to all the away games this time, and a couple in the Pardew European run. Never come across that before. However, we went with it and sat in the seats next to him.

 

As you’d guess, then people came and told us to get out of their seats. He then told them to sit somewhere else as well etc. This went on another couple of times.

 

Eventually we got forcefully told (rightly) to sit in our correct seats, so we had to tell these blokes to move.

 

We were met with the following:

 

- he questioned how many loyalty points we had, and other people on our row, had.

- he bragged that he had 550 so he can “sit where he fucking wants”.

- when the lad next to us mentioned that he got his via hospitality, as we did, (which is a perfectly legitimate way to get tickets), he kicked off. “Of course. Fucking hospitality wankers… plastic prawn sandwich wankers”

- then his wife (absolute bellend) started verbally abusing us, telling us to fuck off… calling us plastic fans (despite me having a season ticket for 25 years, building around 200 loyalty points, before managing a company who own a box, therefore forgoing my loyalty points and ability to earn loyalty points).

We proceeded to tell them that we were sitting (standing) in OUR SEATS. He then moved along a couple of seats, only to find two women come and tell him to move again (because they were theirs).

 

Then he started mouthing off asking the older of the two women what the fuck she knows about football, to which her daughter defended her (having been going to games for nearly 50 years). The bellend wife then proceeded to get physical with the daughter, calling her a cunt and dragging her by the arm, almost pulling her over the seat in front, until we interjected and put her in her place.

 

It kicked off verbally for a while (everyone in the area on our side) until he, the wife, and his mates ended up standing on the stairs the entire game.

 

Irony of it all is they all stood in near silence all game. Absolute whoppers.

 

I guess what I’m trying to say is, we have some right entitled bellends in our crowd. Not the majority, thankfully, but some think that just because they’ve been going for a long time, they can do whatever the fuck they want and treat other fans however they want.

 

There’s also a basic lack of understanding on how the away ticket allocation works, and fans belittling or looking down on other fans.

 

Just to reiterate the situation that we are in… I know with 100% certainty that a maximum of 5% of the allocation for CL games goes to hospitality clients, maximum of 7% for PL games. That is no different to previous years. And there is some kind of misconception that “hospitality clients” means “entitled rich blokes”. Which is utter horseshit. Pretty much every box in St James is family or small business owned. Normal, passionate, fans, who happen to run successful businesses. People who are just as passionate, just as deserving of a ticket, as anyone else in most away ends, and most of which have previously built up massive loyalty with the club over decades.

 

The narrative that is being peddled on social media about the club giving bigger allocations to corporate, free tickets to YouTubers etc, is just toxic, and complete bullshit. It could all be solved by a simple news article on the website spelling out factually how allocations are broken down.

 

Despite all of the above, we had a mint night. Incredibly proud of the lads.

Doesn’t sound like a ticketing problem, you were just unfortunate to run into a couple of idiots. Glad it didn’t tarnish the event/experience. 

[Wallsendmag]

53 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

Seems like a really weird, self entitled, attitude to have to be honest. “I’m going to sit/stand wherever I want”. If that attitude is replicated far and wide, then all you’re doing is pissing off other fans who want to sit/stand with their mates where they paid to sit.

 

And what you’re describing is probably the reason for the bother in Dortmund. People going into the lower standing tier, when they didn’t have a ticket in there, causing a crush / ruckus.

 

It was always the unwritten rule for European away days in the past. Get into the ground, which sometimes wasn't always easy in itself, and then find an empty space and stand in it. I've even got old away tickets from European matches and they don't even have seat or row numbers on them!

 

More often than not in stadiums on the Continent the seat numbers weren't always on the seats anyway, or the allocation was always lower than the amount of seats in the section, or we didn't fill the allocation, so there was never a problem. Then you had places like Marseille away which was just complete chaos where there was clearly far more supporters in than the section could hold and it was a case of just cramming in anywhere you could. Would have been literally 0% chance of finding your allocated seat that night!

 

I was at Arsenal v PSV back in September, in the PSV end, and it was the same for them even at an English ground. Just find a random space and stand in it and there wasn't a single argument over it.

[Danh1]

I’ve always been under the impression away days were a case of standing where you want, and that it is what helped the atmosphere due to people standing with their pals and not already out.

 

Only recently have I seen people on social media and on here say otherwise.

 

That family sound like absolute bellends though.

[Wallsendmag]

10 minutes ago, Danh1 said:

I’ve always been under the impression away days were a case of standing where you want, and that it is what helped the atmosphere due to people standing with their pals and not already out.

 

Only recently have I seen people on social media and on here say otherwise.

 

That family sound like absolute bellends though.

 

Reckon I've fine around 170 away games over the years, domestically and in Europe. I reckon domestically I've probably been in my own seat 95% of the time but never for a European away. Thing is we've been out of Europe for best part of a decade so there'll have been plenty of people this season tasting European aways for the first time so probably aren't aware of the stand where you want policy of the 90s/00s.

 

For the last away game of last season v Chelsea we got in 5 mins late as we'd been over to Wembley first to watch Carlisle play and we had people in our spaces. As there was nowhere else to stand we just told them to bunch up a bit and they were sound. The family that @Shadow Puppets talks about seem like right wankers tbf going on about loyalty point etc 

[LFEE]

3 hours ago, Wallsendmag said:

In response the @Shadow Puppetsstory there I've got to say I went to probably 15 or so away European games in the 00s and the rule then was just stand where you want when you get in the ground. Never been to any of the 3 this season but back then nobody even looked for their allocated seat so that rule must have changed.

There is no “rule” for standing where you want. You are meant to go to your allocated spot. End of story.

 

Do some fans push their luck more in Europe to try and get the spot they want with their mates? Yes. As they do at domestic away games also.

 

If not in your allocated spot and are challenged about it you’ve not got a leg to stand on and should accept it gracefully.

[Wallsendmag]

19 minutes ago, LFEE said:

There is no “rule” for standing where you want. You are meant to go to your allocated spot. End of story.

 

Do some fans push their luck more in Europe to try and get the spot they want with their mates? Yes. As they do at domestic away games also.

 

If not in your allocated spot and are challenged about it you’ve not got a leg to stand on and should accept it gracefully.

 

As I say in my experience I've never stood anywhere near my allocated seat for a European away game and I'd be amazed if anyone did during the 90s/00s as it never happened. Find an empty spot and stand in it was what happened.

 

We are very sanitised over here compared to on the Continent and if you are in the ground early when we play Milan for example you'll notice the away fans who get in first will congregate in the centre nearer the front and the ones arriving later will end up at the sides and the back.

 

Fans of teams in places like Italy, Germany, Holland, France etc would laugh at the idea of scratching around looking for your exact seat at an away game but they do have a different terrace culture to us.

[Shadow Puppets]

30 minutes ago, TheDimpleboy said:

 

I've never stood at my seat in the 90+ away games I've done like. I stand next to a mate, wherever there's a space. None of the people I know at the match are remotely arsed about it either. 

 

It's also against the rules to stand in seated areas full stop, or swear, but we all do that. 

Maybe it isn’t a problem at some games, but it certainly caused a big chew on the other night, primarily because of their attitude.
 

There wasn’t room to just sit/stand where you want in that Paris away end, and why should other people have to move to worse seats / split their party to accommodate a bunch of arseholes?