Sandro Tonali

[Coffee_Johnny]

1 hour ago, Holmesy said:

I just don’t agree it’s an Illness. I don’t agree that any addiction is. You have no choice if you get cancer and you absolutely cannot get rid of it through willpower and lifestyle changes. Same with pretty much every other genuine illness. The mere fact that you can stop being addicted to something if you make enough changes makes it not an illness. A character trait maybe, a weakness definitely but calling these things a disease just feels like an excuse. “It’s not my fault I lost the house through gambling, it’s an illness”. It kind of absolves them of responsibility for their actions.

Maybe that’s harsh but I just can’t get on board with it. I have sympathy for them and I’m not suggesting it’s an easy thing to reverse but I just hate the rhetoric around it.
 

 Check out the difference between a disease and an illness. 

[Newcastle Fan]

Good that he got to play today considring how long he might be banned for, hope he uses his time off to try and improve in all aspects.

[Holmesy]

1 minute ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

 Check out the difference between a disease and an illness. 

Check out gambling disorder. This is a label for addiction that is starting to grow in popularity and I think it’s more appropriate. 
Fuck me, anyone would think I said all addicts should be shot. 
I’m happy to take any criticism on the chin for what seems to be an unpopular and controversial opinion but you guys need to calm down a bit. I’m not the only person on the planet who doesn’t agree that addictions are an illness/disease. 

[Holmesy]

5 minutes ago, 54 said:

Saying "Addiction is just due to a lack of will power" is just bullshit, it can take over your life in many different way, control you and dictate how you live and what you do. Whatever it may be, alcohol, drugs or gambling, they all produce a shot of dopamine that makes you want to go back to it time and again, and even if you know you have a problem, it makes it hard to get away from whatever that suspense may be, and as you get more and more addicted it becomes harder and harder to get away from, to the point that your body depends on it, and if you stop taking it withdrawal starts. 

 

But its not just the physical aspect that makes it hard, its the fact that most addicts are in social groups that taking or doing a certain things is expected, and its hard to break from, especially if you're in a deprived area, or people may be ashamed that they have a problem so hide their problem and don't reach out to others, and their problem gets darker because of that.

 

As an example, try not taking coffee for a few days, its really god damn hard, you get headaches and fatigue really fast, and you very quickly put the kettle on to get the symptoms to go away. 

 

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, but to say addiction isn't an illness, is just ignorance in the extreme.

I’m well aware of the impact addiction can have on families, first hand. I have literally lived it. So yeah, it all makes sense and it definitely doesn’t change my opinion. If anything it strengthens it

[Vinny Green Balls]

13 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

What the fuck are you talking about?! I’m not stigmatising anything. Read my original post - I have sympathy for people with addiction. We have experienced it in my family and I have had friends who have battled problems. But I don’t agree with the labelling of it. There’s no criticism of people with addiction at all. It’s literally just the labelling of it I don’t agree with. 

you did imply lack of willpower, dude.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Vinny Green Balls

[Holmesy]

11 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

you did imply lack of willpower, dude.

 

 

 

How do most people get rid of addictions? Through willpower and lifestyle changes, including therapy. Can you do that with cancer, parkinsons, MD etc? That’s why I hate the labelling!

 

Your reading of my original post was me saying ‘they should just stop doing it and use some willpower’. Read it again, that’s not what I said. Lifestyle changes includes moving away from temptation, changing routines, losing friends etc. That’s arguably more important, but willpower is a huge part of overcoming addiction. 

[Kasper]

Sure he could be a gambling addict but come on…it’s more than likely just a nice way to get some sympathy.

[Interpolic]

57 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

When you’ve dealt with addiction in your family and seen the kind of personalities that will hide behind ‘disease’ you’d probably have a different opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess. I’m not being cuntish mate, I’ve just seen it first hand and I don’t agree that it’s a disease

 

Surely the fact you know first-hand it runs in families should tell you it's an illness rather than a "character trait" or a "weakness"? 

[Holmesy]

1 minute ago, Interpolic said:

 

Surely the fact you know first-hand it runs in families should tell you it's an illness rather than a "character trait" or a "weakness"? 

I believe it’s a disorder and addictive personality is a character trait. I don’t believe it’s an Illness. How do you think a death bed cancer patient would feel about what they are going through being aligned with gambling or drug addiction? 
Whether you like it or not, there is an element of choice in what addicts do, no matter how small it is. The same doesn’t apply to any other ‘illness’ you can contract. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

44 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Check out gambling disorder. This is a label for addiction that is starting to grow in popularity and I think it’s more appropriate. 
Fuck me, anyone would think I said all addicts should be shot. 
I’m happy to take any criticism on the chin for what seems to be an unpopular and controversial opinion but you guys need to calm down a bit. I’m not the only person on the planet who doesn’t agree that addictions are an illness/disease. 

But once again, most medical associations do qualify them as illnesses. So it’s you and some others, mostly unqualified I might point out, against them.

[Vinny Green Balls]

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

I believe it’s a disorder and addictive personality is a character trait. I don’t believe it’s an Illness. How do you think a death bed cancer patient would feel about what they are going through being aligned with gambling or drug addiction? 
Whether you like it or not, there is an element of choice in what addicts do, no matter how small it is. The same doesn’t apply to any other ‘illness’ you can contract. 

This is just such an antiquated way of looking at it, especially with our understanding of how chemicals affect brain function 

[Holmesy]

1 minute ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

But once again, most medical associations do qualify them as illnesses. So it’s you and some others, mostly unqualified I might point out, against them.

I’m alright with that. Medical associations also feel the best course of action for people with anxiety is to dish out antidepressants like they’re sweets. I don’t agree with that either. I also disagree with a lot of their views on Covid treatment. 

[CheikBoom]

Really pleased to see warmth from the crowd towards him. Imagine he'd have been incredibly anxious around the reception he'd get.

[GeordieDazzler]

Eddie backs Sandro so the crowd backs Sandro.

[Vinny Green Balls]

3 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I’m alright with that. Medical associations also feel the best course of action for people with anxiety is to dish out antidepressants like they’re sweets. I don’t agree with that either. I also disagree with a lot of their views on Covid treatment. 

Thanks for providing your expert analysis 

[Holmesy]

4 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

This is just such an antiquated way of looking at it, especially with our understanding of how chemicals affect brain function 

I completely understand how chemicals affect brain function. Ok, let’s use your argument - depression, anxiety, bipolar - all mental health illnesses where the sufferer has no element of choice, all centre around brain chemical delivery and disfunction. Addiction is the only so called ‘illness’ where there is an element of choice so I think it’s insulting to people with other contracted or inherited diseases when that comparison is made.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Thanks for providing your expert analysis 

Thanks for being so grown up

[Hhtoon]

So.....how did Sandro do today?

[McDog]

2 minutes ago, Hhtoon said:

So.....how did Sandro do today?

 

He did OK for a man without an illness.

[M1tche]

1 hour ago, Holmesy said:

Are there drugs for addiction? 

Is this a serious question? There's medication to get off illegal drugs, medication to get off cigarettes, medication to get off alcohol. Surely even in whatever buddle you live in, you know this? 

[Vinny Green Balls]

6 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I completely understand how chemicals affect brain function. Ok, let’s use your argument - depression, anxiety, bipolar - all mental health illnesses where the sufferer has no element of choice, all centre around brain chemical delivery and disfunction. Addiction is the only so called ‘illness’ where there is an element of choice so I think it’s insulting to people with other contracted or inherited diseases when that comparison is made.

This element of choice often has genetic predispositions as well. Do you think being gay is a choice too? 

 

Once again, you have a bit of an antiquated view on this.

 

And anybody who says that they completely understand how chemicals affect brain function is pretty much full of shit, as most scientists say.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Vinny Green Balls

[Kid Icarus]

Don't think there's a great deal wrong with what Holmsey's saying like. He's qualified exactly what he means quite well without it devaluing the seriousness of addiction. Seems more like a semantics/classification thing more than anything 

[Vinny Green Balls]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

Don't think there's a great deal wrong with what Holmsey's saying like. He's qualified exactly what he means quite well without it devaluing the seriousness of addiction. Seems more like a semantics/classification thing more than anything 

which would not be so bad if he didn't keep on bringing up choice and then adding how it's an insult to cancer patients.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Anyhow, no big deal. I don't think any of us think Holmesy is coming from a bad place. Apologies for coming off as sarcastic, Holmesy.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Vinny Green Balls

[FLUMPO235]

2 hours ago, Holmesy said:

I just don’t agree it’s an Illness. I don’t agree that any addiction is. You have no choice if you get cancer and you absolutely cannot get rid of it through willpower and lifestyle changes. Same with pretty much every other genuine illness. The mere fact that you can stop being addicted to something if you make enough changes makes it not an illness. A character trait maybe, a weakness definitely but calling these things a disease just feels like an excuse. “It’s not my fault I lost the house through gambling, it’s an illness”. It kind of absolves them of responsibility for their actions.

Maybe that’s harsh but I just can’t get on board with it. I have sympathy for them and I’m not suggesting it’s an easy thing to reverse but I just hate the rhetoric around it.
 

100%, it’s like people who are dyslexic, ffs just learn to spell.

 

or people with depression, just lighten up and pull yourself together. 

 

if I keep going I might get to a condition you or someone in your family suffers from. 
 

we can all disagree on footballing and many other things, but the arrogance of you to decided the whole medical profession and decades of research are wrong…

 

Jesus wept, you really are a rancid, pathetic individual.