Mikky Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Gordon longstaff and Anderson all asleep in this image too. Look at the overload they have on the left. This is why you need a 6 - and I don’t mean “we should have bought one” - I mean with what we have - whether it’s Bruno or Tonali playing a double pivot allows you to play Bruno as the 6 - Sandro to the left of centre which then provides cover for Hall who can press higher up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 18 minutes ago, duo said: I don't get why we have lost our press. It was so successful last season but we just don't seem to be doing it this season. Different personnel getting acclimatised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Mikky said: This is why you need a 6 - and I don’t mean “we should have bought one” - I mean with what we have - whether it’s Bruno or Tonali playing a double pivot allows you to play Bruno as the 6 - Sandro to the left of centre which then provides cover for Hall who can press higher up I don’t think either want to naturally play a double pivot though, they both want to get up and down and be more involved then breaking up Possession and recycling. Also we don’t have a natural 10, playing Isak there is very much shoehorning him into the role, it might work but it’s another experimental gamble. We’ve gone all in on this fluid 3 and it isn’t clicking yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 16 minutes ago, loki679 said: One thing that stood out for me was when Isak broke clear and tried to cut the ball back we had nobody busting a gut to get in the box from midfield. That happened last week as well, a few people mentioned it. Neither if that middle are known for taking that gamble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 18 minutes ago, loki679 said: One thing that stood out for me was when Isak broke clear and tried to cut the ball back we had nobody busting a gut to get in the box from midfield. Yes he cut the ball back into the perfect area where he'd expect someone to be running into and none of them were anywhere near. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, madras said: Different personnel getting acclimatised. It's just Tonali really. The team as a whole just don't appear to be on the front foot. One of our strengths before was winning back possession high up the pitch. But now we are allowing teams to have possession and come at us. Has to he a tactical switch. Edited September 3, 2023 by duo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Brighton are brilliant at creating overloads, one of the best in the league. We made it far too easy for them to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancrate1892 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 The villa game away last season sticks in my mind, probably should have lost 6-0 and it was like watching another team. The team and system that went out against villa is very similar to the one we've been putting out this season, coincidence?? I really doubt it. The combination of players and their roles just didn't work. For example Gordon coming on the left and joelinton coming into midfield instead of longstaff. The week after big J went in Gordon's position and longstaff took joelintons position and we are 5-0 after 21 mins. The balance was just far better. Big J just isn't right in midfield and like Murphy Gordon looks far better on the right. Now, I feel we are accomodating players. Unpopular but I'd drop Gordon, and either play isak or joelinton LWF. Get longstaff starting and get willock back ASAP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, Mikky said: This is why you need a 6 - and I don’t mean “we should have bought one” - I mean with what we have - whether it’s Bruno or Tonali playing a double pivot allows you to play Bruno as the 6 - Sandro to the left of centre which then provides cover for Hall who can press higher up Neither are a 6 which is the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancrate1892 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, duo said: Neither are a 6 which is the problem. Do you have a traditional 6 in a midfield 3? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, KaKa said: Anyone dropping into half spaces is killing us at the minute. Against these type of teams that excel at padding and exploiting the half spaces, we really need to consider looking to keep a more disciplined shape and look to counter them. That straight midfield line is causing us offensive issues too with Isak being isolated We need to change our shape to cover the central areas Pope Trippier. Schar. Botman. Hall Bruno. Tonali Gordon. Isak. Barnes Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 9 minutes ago, r0cafella said: I don’t think either want to naturally play a double pivot though, they both want to get up and down and be more involved then breaking up Possession and recycling. Also we don’t have a natural 10, playing Isak there is very much shoehorning him into the role, it might work but it’s another experimental gamble. We’ve gone all in on this fluid 3 and it isn’t clicking yet. No coincidence Tonali had the best season of his career alongside Kessie (was in a double pivot) Him and Bruno are a perfect pair - just need to settle Bruno down a bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancrate1892 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Mikky said: That straight midfield line is causing us offensive issues too with Isak being isolated We need to change our shape to cover the central areas Pope Trippier. Schar. Botman. Hall Bruno. Tonali Gordon. Isak. Barnes Wilson I think Gordon would enjoy being on the right. I also think Barnes starting is more useful when your not chasing the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Pancrate1892 said: The villa game away last season sticks in my mind, probably should have lost 6-0 and it was like watching another team. The team and system that went out against villa is very similar to the one we've been putting out this season, coincidence?? I really doubt it. The combination of players and their roles just didn't work. For example Gordon coming on the left and joelinton coming into midfield instead of longstaff. The week after big J went in Gordon's position and longstaff took joelintons position and we are 5-0 after 21 mins. The balance was just far better. Big J just isn't right in midfield and like Murphy Gordon looks far better on the right. Now, I feel we are accomodating players. Unpopular but I'd drop Gordon, and either play isak or joelinton LWF. Get longstaff starting and get willock back ASAP. Villa and Brighton both play a similar system, with the aim being to pull teams up the pitch and play over or through their press. When our press is at its best, as it was at SJP, we are still capable of overwhelming them. When it's off it leaves the defence exposed and plays into their hands. Thankfully we're on it more often than not, but it all looked a bit uncoordinated yesterday. Bruno was isolated, Joe didn't look fully fit and the front three don't seem to have developed a relationship yet. The break has come at a good time for us to make some tweaks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Pancrate1892 said: Do you have a traditional 6 in a midfield 3? That is the question is the 3 man midfield costing us? I think unless you get the balance right as we had done for most of last season you can very easily get overrun. Which is what we've seen. I'd argue with the personal we have 3 man doesn't work. But I'm not a coach. I will leave it to Eddie to solve this problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Pancrate1892 said: I think Gordon would enjoy being on the right. I also think Barnes starting is more useful when your not chasing the game Gordon is away better option than Miggy who is too predictable in my view on the left you could play Barnes/Anderson/Joe and Joe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 12 minutes ago, duo said: It's just Tonali really. The team as a whole just don't appear to be on the front foot. One of our strengths before was winning back possession high up the pitch. But now we are allowing teams to have possession and come at us. Has to he a tactical switch. Which changes that whole midfield dynamic for now and Gordon/Barnes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, duo said: That is the question is the 3 man midfield costing us? I think unless you get the balance right as we had done for most of last season you can very easily get overrun. Which is what we've seen. I'd argue with the personal we have 3 man doesn't work. But I'm not a coach. I will leave it to Eddie to solve this problem. As a flat 3 it’s costing us yes - the shape has to change to a 1-2. Or a 2-1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Watching this yesterday reminded me of when I was at Villa Park last season. Felt like almost identical tactics and team shape completely undone us for large parts of the game. Us having occasional moments at 0-0 and 1-0 that might of turned the game slightly but when going to 2-0 on both occasions we just got worse and more headless and players looking lost and turning heads at each other. Scoreline aside it was very similar to our game here last season. All you can do is hope the coaching staff learn from these games. Let’s stay positive. We are a point and a couple of goals at most worse off than we were last season. We’ve two weeks to get Botman fit and a faster LB in the team and organise this midfield of ours which as fragile as it looks at times only looks worse without Tonali so subbing him probably isn’t the answer despite that seemingly being the preferred option by the coaching staff. I’m guessing it’s sleepless nights with a new born rather than contract negotiations (which I suspect will be announced very soon when all windows are closed) that’s causing Bruno to play as though he’s sleepwalking so not too hopeful of any improvement on that front for at least few more months and if the rumours are true his wife is expecting a second maybe even longer ? Would be nice to see our lineup against Brentford include HALL (LB) and for a spell of minutes at least (20-30) Livramento maybe in place of Miggy to get him some minutes even if not quite in his traditional position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 I think people are overrating Brighton to be honest. On another day we could've walked away 0-3. Flat performance but Isak puts that chance away and the game completely changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, madras said: Which changes that whole midfield dynamic for now and Gordon/Barnes. But it's strange against Villa Tonali was everywhere, closing people down. Same with Gordon against Liverpool, his goal came from his press as he pressured Trent into a mistake. So individually they have it in their game, we just don't seem to be doing it collectively as a unit like we were last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Menace said: I think people are overrating Brighton to be honest. On another day we could've walked away 0-3. Flat performance but Isak puts that chance away and the game completely changes. I agree goals change games but bar the first few minutes we weren't at the races. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, duo said: But it's strange against Villa Tonali was everywhere, closing people down. Same with Gordon against Liverpool, his goal came from his press as he pressured Trent into a mistake. So individually they have it in their game, we just don't seem to be doing it collectively as a unit like we were last season. They maybe played a game that suits our press. It's very much closing the players down, against Brighton it's more if the initial press doesn't work then its blocking the passing channels they use. We done it great last season up here. I was worried for the game up here last season as Brighton had ripped Arsenal simply by sucking them in and then that ball slid out from the centre half to a forward coming deep late who either gets fouled (often by the slightest touch) or flips it off to an on rushing midfielder and spins away himself. They done it all day yesterday. Last season we cut off the ball to the striker coming deep or got a challenge in on the receiving midfielder. Yesterday there was at best a lack of legs there, at worst a lack of reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 You guys need to hurry up and get to a new page so I can quote myself and allow all the new page plebs to enjoy and benefit from my wisdom and erudite thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Mikky said: When we defend with a straight midfield 5 it takes just one ball to cut through us wtf? who is that in our midfiled standing with their hands on their hips?!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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