AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 11 hours ago, Beth said: Or Hall, but it seems we've already made the decision to avoid playing him for whatever reason. Actually forgot we had him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, Beth said: Or Hall, but it seems we've already made the decision to avoid playing him for whatever reason. The reason has to be that we haven't triggered our obligation to buy yet. Maybe it was based on a certain number of starts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, TRon said: The reason has to be that we haven't triggered our obligation to buy yet. Maybe it was based on a certain number of starts. Does seem logical but at the time it was described like almost guaranteed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said: Does seem logical but at the time it was described like almost guaranteed. Yeah there's been talk that the deal is going to be made permanent, but I'm not sure we've actually confirmed it. I'd say if we haven't invoked the clause yet, then it's more than likely we won't keep him. It's a lot of money for a player who hasn't been able to make much of an impact in half a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 If we don’t want to trigger an appearance clause, it seems odd that we’ve brought him on in the last 10 mins of games semi-regularly: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 It much, much more likely that Howe doesn't think he's ready. It won't take long on training to see whether someone is up to standard, not least when they have so much data at their disposal. What if they know his stamina isn't up to scratch or he's not keeping the ball well enough in training? We can't JUST play him. Howe has to be convinced he will do the job correctly... or at least better than those competing in his position and while Burn has his flaws, he's also got some serious tactical strong points. I think we may sign him permanently but I'd get him shipped straight out on loan in order to get some experience knocked into him. Target sell Hall loan Sign a new left back. Livramento will get loads of games either side and push BDB into back up CB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, STM said: It much, much more likely that Howe doesn't think he's ready. It won't take long on training to see whether someone is up to standard, not least when they have so much data at their disposal. What if they know his stamina isn't up to scratch or he's not keeping the ball well enough in training? We can't JUST play him. Howe has to be convinced he will do the job correctly... or at least better than those competing in his position and while Burn has his flaws, he's also got some serious tactical strong points. I think we may sign him permanently but I'd get him shipped straight out on loan in order to get some experience knocked into him. Target sell Hall loan Sign a new left back. Livramento will get loads of games either side and push BDB into back up CB. I find it hard to believe we've commited to spend £30m on an 18 year old full back and then subsequently decided he's not ready. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, Beth said: I find it hard to believe we've commited to spend £30m on an 18 year old full back and then subsequently decided he's not ready. Who says we have? Maybe the structure of the deal allows us to try before we buy. No one seems to know for sure the clauses in the loan deal. I personally thought we had also but even having my own doubts now due to lack of minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, LFEE said: Who says we have? Maybe the structure of the deal allows us to try before we buy. No one seems to know for sure the clauses in the loan deal. I personally thought we had also but even having my own doubts now due to lack of minutes. I hope we haven't, becasue if we have it's looking like a colossal waste of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 minutes ago, STM said: It much, much more likely that Howe doesn't think he's ready. It won't take long on training to see whether someone is up to standard, not least when they have so much data at their disposal. What if they know his stamina isn't up to scratch or he's not keeping the ball well enough in training? We can't JUST play him. Howe has to be convinced he will do the job correctly... or at least better than those competing in his position and while Burn has his flaws, he's also got some serious tactical strong points. I think we may sign him permanently but I'd get him shipped straight out on loan in order to get some experience knocked into him. Target sell Hall loan Sign a new left back. Livramento will get loads of games either side and push BDB into back up CB. Do you think we are in a position to spend £30m+ on a player only to send him out on loan the following season? Considering we need a striker, midfielder and a RW, I'd say it's unlikely. I would have thought we'd expected him to be the left sided version of Livramento, who hasn't started loads of games, but he's clearly an asset already. Spending £6-8m on a young prospect like Minteh or Guareng then sending them out to loan is fair enough, but when you part with serious cash you want them around your first team squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Not sure what to expect here. Gordon out is another massive blow if true. Surely Wilson starts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Beth said: I find it hard to believe we've commited to spend £30m on an 18 year old full back and then subsequently decided he's not ready. What you are essentially saying is that every transfer is successful? I'm suggesting they thought Hall was further along in his development. Does it mean they made an error, yes... like every other side in the league, we may have made an error in our scouting assessment. However, he's very young and has big potential, so all is not lost. If they thought he was good enough.. he would have played far more, its as easy as that IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, TRon said: Do you think we are in a position to spend £30m+ on a player only to send him out on loan the following season? Considering we need a striker, midfielder and a RW, I'd say it's unlikely. I would have thought we'd expected him to be the left sided version of Livramento, who hasn't started loads of games, but he's clearly an asset already. Spending £6-8m on a young prospect like Minteh or Guareng then sending them out to loan is fair enough, but when you part with serious cash you want them around your first team squad. What I'm saying is that we signed him thinking he was ready for the first team and have realised that we got it wrong. What do you think we should do? Play him more? Despite not being ready? The only scenario where he gets more games next year, is if he shows he's ready in training and in friendlies etc, which is possible. It won't protect our investment having him sitting on the bench for another season, that is for certain. I have this horrible feeling some of our fans think that Howe is just going to start playing him and he's going to be class. I'm certain that this won't happen. In short, he has until the start of next season to prove his worth. Edit: Also worth bearing in mind we have ALREADY spent the money on him (albeit in this summers accounts), it just hasn't been ratified yet. The transfer is done. I'm surprised that anyone still thinks that there is any chance that he goes back to Chelsea. Edited February 8 by STM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, LFEE said: Who says we have? Maybe the structure of the deal allows us to try before we buy. No one seems to know for sure the clauses in the loan deal. I personally thought we had also but even having my own doubts now due to lack of minutes. My instinct is that it's done. I might be wrong but as I've said in the two posts above, I suspect we've realised he's either not good enough or not ready. FWIW, I also don't think for a second we have paid 30m for him. I suspect that it's probably half of that with a shit load of add ons. However, as I've also said, just because he's not ready now, doesn't mean that it will always be the case. That's why I suggested a loan. A year with Kompanys Burnley in the championship for example, would do him wonders. Loans aren't our strong suit though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janpawel Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Maybe a stupid question, but when weve considered the likes of Hall, do we have access to data from the Chelsea academy / scouts who would have seen him play? Would we have scouts at most academies to keep tabs on young players etc? I find it hard to believe we'd commit £35m to someone based off the handful of games he played for Chelsea last season, but not seen anyone mention this kind of stuff. If he has been scouted extensively, then I'd be confident that he'd come good as we seem to have bought well so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janpawel Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Actually thinking about it we must do, otherwise why would we have bought that young lad from City ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, STM said: FWIW, I also don't think for a second we have paid 30m for him. I suspect that it's probably half of that with a shit load of add ons. I think you hope we’re not paying £30m as a flat fee Could be complete bollocks, but someone I know reckons he’d heard that there’s a break clause in the contract i.e. we can pay a fee not to sign him. The lad who told me does know someone relatively high up in the club, but I’m dubious as to whether or not that person would know about break clauses in contracts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: I think you hope we’re not paying £30m as a flat fee Could be complete bollocks, but someone I know reckons he’d heard that there’s a break clause in the contract i.e. we can pay a fee not to sign him. The lad who told me does know someone relatively high up in the club, but I’m dubious as to whether or not that person would know about break clauses in contracts! You are correct, I hope we haven't paid a flat fee of 30m. Obviously it's just guesswork but I'd be surprised if we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealios Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: I think you hope we’re not paying £30m as a flat fee Could be complete bollocks, but someone I know reckons he’d heard that there’s a break clause in the contract i.e. we can pay a fee not to sign him. The lad who told me does know someone relatively high up in the club, but I’m dubious as to whether or not that person would know about break clauses in contracts! That's not as daft as it sounds. It wouldn't really be a fee "not to sign him". It's basically a loan deal, a transfer fee at the end if you keep him, a loan fee at the end if you don't. I don't know enough about it, but it is perfectly possible that the "loan fee" at the end could just be based on minutes used. But in the scheme of things, that isn't going to be huge money to make you tell Eddie Howe how to pick a team. Logic suggests it is either (a) he genuinely doesn't think he is ready, or (b) the implications of playing Hall are so financially massive that the board need to tell Eddie who he needs to pick. That second one if you think about it is quite a big deal, it would really need to be something major for the board to interfere in who the manager picks, particularly when we have been down to bare bones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I can imagine a scenario where Howe knows we need an LB but doesn't want to trigger the purchase of Hall when he thinks he would prefer someone else. That said, at the time Hall came in it was implied that the signing was basically guaranteed, so I dunno. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 It shouldn’t go unmentioned either that we were expecting to have a fit Targett for the whole season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Is Wilson fit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouldy_uk Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 5 hours ago, cubaricho said: It shouldn’t go unmentioned either that we were expecting to have a fit Targett for the whole season. Forgot Targett even existed, what a poor signing (in hindsight) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 12 minutes ago, mouldy_uk said: Forgot Targett even existed, what a poor signing (in hindsight) Absolutely felt the right signing at the time but now a complete dud, particularly with the wages he’s allegedly on. Nouveau bomb squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mofo Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 46 minutes ago, ExiledGeordie said: Is Wilson fit? I would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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