The Prophet Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, Holloway said: Have you seen so called elite players being so anonymous in critical games? He's overrated Apart from a match winning brace in a title-winning game v West Ham, a goal in the Champions League semi-final, a match winning hattrick v Villa, a match winning brace in the Manchester Derby, the match winner at Bournemouth, and match winning hattrick v Brentford, he was anonymous to be fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 I don’t think our defense is as bad people are saying. Argentina won the World Cup with less impressive defenders. Walker is incredibly good defensively, Stones is one of the best ball-playing cbs in the game, Guehi is very solid (just lacks a bit of areal prowess) and Trippier is a great all-round player that can definitely do a more than serviceable job at lb. Our issues are off the ball in midfield (defending more so but going forward as well) and attacking patterns of play. There needs to be more purpose to how we play and, unfairly or not (arguably you have that much time with players before a tournament), that’s on Southgate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Gordon LW Saka RW Rice CDM Bellingham and Foden CAM I think this should be our middle. Would also argue TAA at RB and Walker CB over Stones potentially in games vs lesser opposition. Kane drops too deep and did all last tournament too. Southgate needs to recognise attack is our best form of defence and go all in, for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 4 minutes ago, The Prophet said: Apart from a match winning brace in a title-winning game v West Ham, a goal in the Champions League semi-final, a match winning hattrick v Villa, a match winning brace in the Manchester Derby, the match winner at Bournemouth, and match winning hattrick v Brentford, he was anonymous to be fair. All for Man city, so what . I'm talking about pitching his ability in more demanding circumstances. It' s yet to be seen and I doubt he has it in him. If you think otherwise, fair enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Just now, Heron said: Gordon LW Saka RW Rice CDM Bellingham and Foden CAM I think this should be our middle. Would also argue TAA at RB and Walker CB over Stones potentially in games vs lesser opposition. Kane drops too deep and did all last tournament too. Southgate needs to recognise attack is our best form of defence and go all in, for me. 100% agree but Southgate will never go for anything but a double pivot. I'd even take Eze over Gordon against a deep defence at LW but Foden is wasted there, he doesn't put his mark on any game at LW for England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Just now, Holloway said: All for Man city, so what . I'm talking about pitching his ability in more demanding circumstances. It' s yet to be seen and I doubt he has it in him. If you think otherwise, fair enough I don't think he's utilised correctly for England and with Kane dropping deep a lot I also think this has the potential to impact his effectiveness. Haaland for example plays on the shoulder of the last man a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Just now, Mattoon said: 100% agree but Southgate will never go for anything but a double pivot. I'd even take Eze over Gordon against a deep defence at LW but Foden is wasted there, he doesn't put his mark on any game at LW for England. Aye. Eze more unlikely to unpick a deep lying defence but Gordon better at stretching. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Holloway said: All for Man city, so what . I'm talking about pitching his ability in more demanding circumstances. It' s yet to be seen and I doubt he has it in him. If you think otherwise, fair enough Does that mean a player can't be considered great if he plays for a great team though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 8 minutes ago, Mattoon said: Absolutely this, we turn the screw at 1-0 and we easily win 2 or 3-0 but it's back to safety first and not conceding. Such anti-football. risks a late equaliser and little time to respond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Just now, Heron said: I don't think he's utilised correctly for England and with Kane dropping deep a lot I also think this has the potential to impact his effectiveness. Haaland for example plays on the shoulder of the last man a lot. Agree with this too, I don't begrudge Kane dropping deep because he links up play so well, but Bellingham is the better player to play forward of Kane when he drops deep, Foden offers nothing, he's better feeding off a striker that plays on the shoulder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 34 minutes ago, leffe186 said: I don’t fully follow you - you say you’d personally trebuchet him back, but you also say there’s no way Southgate should leave him out. That’s not fair. Southgate needs to make the best team he can. If that means Foden on the bench then so be it. I wasn't being deadly serious; speaking out of frustration at his latest shite performance in an England shirt. The general point was that the actual England manager would be on a hiding to nothing by not playing someone like Foden imo, especially after the season he had. We're almost certainly a lot more balanced tonight if there's a straight swap between Gordon and Foden, but I can't blame Southgate too much for trying to find a way to have his cake and eat it, in terms of having both Bellingham and Foden in very advanced positions. A more tactically astute manager would probably find a way (does it have to be 4-2-3-1, for instance?) but again I think Foden let him down tonight with just how ineffectual he was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Just now, huss9 said: risks a late equaliser and little time to respond. We were 1-0 up after 13 minutes, keep the pressure on then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Mattoon said: We were 1-0 up after 13 minutes, keep the pressure on then. i was agreeing with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 The Foden at LW issue is definitely compounded by not having a LB too, mind. You could get away and it may actually be effective if we had a good attacking LB available for width and threat on that side allowing Foden to play more narrow. The best possible option we may have at some point for that is a half fit Luke Shaw though. If Southgate insists on playing Bellingham as a 10 then Foden has to be dropped. That's not a reflection of his ability mind as he's clearly a world class talent. It just doesn't work with him out wide in this setup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 4 minutes ago, The Prophet said: Does that mean a player can't be considered great if he plays for a great team though? Well no, but great players tend to make things happen in games that aren't great, against inferior rated opposition. I'm a bit puzzled at how good. folk think Foden is on the world stage, he:hadn't really enhanced his reputation has he Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 eddie often gets criticiscm for his subs, but more often than not he'll replace the forwards to give us a "second wind". southgate take note. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, huss9 said: i was agreeing with you. Yeah sorry, miscomprehension on my behalf, defending the 1-0 so early just gives the opposition the momentum and helps them build confidence as was blatantly obvious tonight, Serbia weren't even in the game until after we scored. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Group stage games are always edgy and hard to call mind when the main thing is getting out of the group - Portugal did it without winning a game and ended up winning the whole thing in 2016. Lots of questions will be rightly asked of England from a tactical point of view tonight but I'd have taken a scrappy win tonight even if the performance annoyed me to fuck (which it did). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 England can’t build from deep in midfield and that’s why they won’t go to the final. Might not even make it past the QFs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 2 minutes ago, Holloway said: Well no, but great players tend to make things happen in games that aren't great, against inferior rated opposition. I'm a bit puzzled at how good. folk think Foden is on the world stage, he:hadn't really enhanced his reputation has he I'd argue winning numerous English titles and a Champions League demonstrates capability on a 'World Stage' as the Premier and Champions League are invariably the best leagues in the world. Foden can operate at this level, for certain. He just needs the correct positioning and set up to enable and unlock it. More than one way to skin a cat though with several good players at our disposal in attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 3 minutes ago, Sifu said: Group stage games are always edgy and hard to call mind when the main thing is getting out of the group - Portugal did it without winning a game and ended up winning the whole thing in 2016. Lots of questions will be rightly asked of England from a tactical point of view tonight but I'd have taken a scrappy win tonight even if the performance annoyed me to fuck (which it did). Agree. Pleased with the win all in all tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Sifu said: Group stage games are always edgy and hard to call mind when the main thing is getting out of the group - Portugal did it without winning a game and ended up winning the whole thing in 2016. Lots of questions will be rightly asked of England from a tactical point of view tonight but I'd have taken a scrappy win tonight even if the performance annoyed me to fuck (which it did). When Pepe came back they had the best defence in the tournament which ultimately won it for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: England can’t build from deep in midfield and that’s why they won’t go to the final. Might not even make it past the QFs. My overriding concern is that I believe we need to go all in and Southgate simply won't, thus we won't reach our potential and will likely be out by the last 8ish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Heron said: My overriding concern is that I believe we need to go all in and Southgate simply won't, thus we won't reach our potential and will likely be out by the last 8ish What’s all in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, The College Dropout said: What’s all in? Just all out attack pretty much. We need to improve in our plays and utilising our attacking talent. Eddie Howe would win this Euros like He's the perfect man for this squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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