Group C: 1. England, 2. Denmark, 3. Slovenia (Q), 4. Serbia

[Mattoon]

23 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

In a way I'm enjoying the situation we're in. Either Southgate is heading to an absolute flop of a tournament and possibly the sack, or he's going to have to make a couple of changes to inject some life back into the team. It'll be interesting to see which one he goes for. 

 

Playing Gallagher instead of Trent won't change anything and is a pointless half measure. 

 

You just know that's his answer to this, just lfl swap in Gallagher.

[huss9]

need pace and directness either side of the striker.

has to be gordon and saka.

sake off on second half as he doesant seem able to last more than 50minutes at the moment.

[Yorkie]

I just feel fairly sad now. One match shouldn't completely change your mindset on something but we were so bad yesterday that changing players feels like rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. They played like absolute strangers so I fear it's not really a case of just making alterations to the line-up... there was a complete void of chemistry and identity. Repairing that requires an inherent change. 

 

I dearly hope it was just a very bad day at the office but I was bowled over by how bad it was. They reminded me of a team in the final throes of a manager's era, destined for relegation.

 

I really don't want it to end like this for Southgate. He's done a brilliant job with England but the race is looking very much run at this point. 

[huss9]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I just feel fairly sad now. One match shouldn't completely change your mindset on something but we were so bad yesterday that changing players feels like rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. They played like absolute strangers so I fear it's not really a case of just making alterations to the line-up... there was a complete void of chemistry and identity. Repairing that requires an inherent change. 

 

I dearly hope it was just a very bad day at the office but I was bowled over by how bad it was. They reminded me of a team in the final throes of a manager's era, destined for relegation.

 

I really don't want it to end like this for Southgate. He's done a brilliant job with England but the race is looking very much run at this point. 

et tu Yorkie?

[Joe1984]

2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

I just feel fairly sad now. One match shouldn't completely change your mindset on something but we were so bad yesterday that changing players feels like rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. They played like absolute strangers so I fear it's not really a case of just making alterations to the line-up... there was a complete void of chemistry and identity. Repairing that requires an inherent change. 

 

I dearly hope it was just a very bad day at the office but I was bowled over by how bad it was. They reminded me of a team in the final throes of a manager's era, destined for relegation.

 

I really don't want it to end like this for Southgate. He's done a brilliant job with England but the race is looking very much run at this point. 

Cheer up Yorkie we are not out yet! ☺️

[leffe186]

2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

I just feel fairly sad now. One match shouldn't completely change your mindset on something but we were so bad yesterday that changing players feels like rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. They played like absolute strangers so I fear it's not really a case of just making alterations to the line-up... there was a complete void of chemistry and identity. Repairing that requires an inherent change. 

 

I dearly hope it was just a very bad day at the office but I was bowled over by how bad it was. They reminded me of a team in the final throes of a manager's era, destined for relegation.

 

I really don't want it to end like this for Southgate. He's done a brilliant job with England but the race is looking very much run at this point. 

The thing is Yorkie, they’re professional footballers and bloody good ones. I really think they’re capable of adapting and thinking for themselves in a more orthodox structure. If you have Gordon left in front of Trippier and Saka right in front of Walker then I have confidence in those four players doing good jobs in those positions. The unknown is how the midfield adapts and whether we’re better with Kane dropping and players running past him or Toney/Watkins harassing defenders.

 

The big issue right now is he’s setting them up to fail.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

I do think one of the advantages we'd get with say Gordon on the left and Saka on the right would be Kane looking forward more than he has been. So much goes through the middle, and quite slowly, that it's easy for Kane to drop to look for the ball. If we played for pace down the sides, with balls over the top or down the line to them, and then balls in to the box from there, Kane gets the ball in front of him, and then we'd have the midfield getting in to the box too, and people in the edge.  Youd have to think it'd up our xg more?

 

 

Edited June 21 by Super Duper Branko Strupar

[Rafalove]

 

[WilliamPS]

Tbh we should be pleased as if they’d nicked it on Thursday nothing would change and it be straight out in the knockout round, now something must be done.

 

If Gallagher and Gordon came in we’d get a different England. I’m not saying they’d be amazing but Gordon holding the width and getting in behind would open up space for Bellingham and actually create some chances for Kane. Gallagher would improve the midfield massively out of possession (not so much in possession). He can’t possibly start TAA again.

 

My fear is he’s a bottler as usual and instead of dropping Foden he pushes Bellingham back and Foden goes 10, I don’t think that’ll work. My prediction after Serbia was he’s at least drop TAA and he bottled even that.

 

Personally I’d like to see a formation change to 433 but I don’t think Southgate has it in him. I also think those that want Wharton will be disappointed for the same reason, Southgate isn’t going to make that call, Mainoo has more chance.
 

 

[timnufc22]

Watkins playing on the shoulder. Gordon left, Saka right. Kane playing deeper (as he likes to do anyway) linking as a trio with Rice & Bellingham behind him. Football tries to minimise player attributes too much these days. Bellingham looks like an all-rounder, someone who can run, tackle and pass and time his moments in the box. Can I ask how the likes of Rob Lee and Gary Speed scored double figures from playing in CM? They weren't playing as a no10, yet somehow managed to do it. Kieron Dyer played CM and used his pace and athleticism to great effect there. I don't see why Bellingham cant pick his runs more while he has the strength and pace to hold his own further back. Kane then doesn't have to cover as much ground and we also have many goal threats on the pitch. Watkins will cause one CB a headache running in behind all the time and the other CB wont know whether to follow Kane deep or not. Either way we have fluidity and constant threat. 

 

If we stick to the current formation then replace TAA with Wharton and Foden with Gordon, or Eze.

[gbandit]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/21/england-players-fitness-pressing-gareth-southgate
 

Maybe pick players who are at their optimum. If Saka has fitness issues then why is Palmer not playing? If Kane has fitness issues why is Watkins not playing. Absurd stuff this 

[gbandit]

Playing multiple players out of position and several others who are unfit. What could go wrong?

[El Prontonise]

7 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Playing multiple players out of position and several others who are unfit. What could go wrong?

 

It's genuinely like Steve Bruce is manager now.   

[KaKa]

22 minutes ago, El Prontonise said:

 

It's genuinely like Steve Bruce is manager now.   

 

He is in charge.

 

We've suffered under enough of these types of managers to know the template and playbook.

 

It's always the exact same terrible product and litany of excuses.

[KaKa]

In a twisted way I'm enjoying seeing fans of the so called 'top clubs' suffer with seeing their favourite players from their clubs be mismanaged to this extent, and look terrible, and them complaining non stop about them being out of position and the tactics.

 

The dismissive nonsense I had to take from them during the Ashley years, when I would complain about how bad the managers were, was maddening.

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:31 by KaKa

[Cf]

25 minutes ago, El Prontonise said:

 

It's genuinely like Steve Bruce is manager now.   

 

It has been for the last 6 years hasn't it?

 

Has it got worse? Or are people just now seeing it? Mix of both maybe?

[Yorkie]

28 minutes ago, Cf said:

 

It has been for the last 6 years hasn't it?

 

Has it got worse? Or are people just now seeing it? Mix of both maybe?

 

Of course it hasn't, that's a ludicrous suggestion. He completely changed the culture of the England camp and turned us into a team that, first, punched above its weight and then 'at' its weight. We haven't played as badly as we did on Thursday under Southgate at a tournament before then.

[Shearergol]

34 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Of course it hasn't, that's a ludicrous suggestion. He completely changed the culture of the England camp and turned us into a team that, first, punched above its weight and then 'at' its weight. We haven't played as badly as we did on Thursday under Southgate at a tournament before then.

we’ve played as badly outside of tournaments. Many many times. The same tactical issues were being discussed a year ago, 2 years ago, even 4 years ago.

 

we struggle to be a good team under Southgate, it’s hard to point to many games and think “yeah, these are one of the best teams in the world”.

 

tournaments are a different beast, but we still haven’t performed against the better teams. This tournament is bizarre though; it’s almost making him look stubborn. His experiment failed in the first game, it was always going to fail in the second. If he curveballs us all in the 3rd game and puts AG in, plays a proper CM in midfield (I want to see Wharton in there and see us keep the ball) and if we take the lead, gets the team to build on that then fair play. He’ll still need to do that against better teams but we’ve got plenty of evidence to show that he won’t.

 

Ironically the defeat to Denmark in 2020 was probably a better performance from England than this latest draw. Never seen us not trying to win a game before.

[Yorkie]

Happy to not argue with any of that. Not saying I agree with all of it but I've done the debate a thousand times and I'd be on a hiding to nothing at this point.

 

What I absolutely cannot resist recoiling at is the suggestion Steve Bruce could have inherited the job Sourhgate did and then delivered a WC semi, Euros final and a WC quarter. 

 

It's annoying that my hatred of Bruce has given me a reputation for loving Southgate.

[Big River]

Gordon hasn’t had a single kick so far, do we really think he’s going to start him? I’d love to see it obviously, as I genuinely think he’s our only hope.

[GeordieDazzler]

 

It’s like the Steve Bruce blame cycle all over again isn’t it? 

[Shearergol]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Happy to not argue with any of that. Not saying I agree with all of it but I've done the debate a thousand times and I'd be on a hiding to nothing at this point.

 

What I absolutely cannot resist recoiling at is the suggestion Steve Bruce could have inherited the job Sourhgate did and then delivered a WC semi, Euros final and a WC quarter. 

 

It's annoying that my hatred of Bruce has given me a reputation for loving Southgate.

Steve Bruce couldn’t have done all of that, but watching us draw the other night it could have been him managing that team. That’s why the comparisons have started.

[Shearergol]

Missing Jordan Henderson ffs  maybe Maguire too? Sterling?

[Yorkie]

3 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

Steve Bruce couldn’t have done all of that, but watching us draw the other night it could have been him managing that team. That’s why the comparisons have started.

 

The comparisons have been made routinely for ages and I was respondingly directly to Cf who was saying it had been this way for six years.

 

Thursday night was horrendous, the worst tournament performance under Southgate, I'm not going to defend it. It was a miracle we were playing an utterly limp Denmark side who, apropos of nothing, are barely a shadow of the very good team we faced in the last Euros semis.

[huss9]

2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Of course it hasn't, that's a ludicrous suggestion. He completely changed the culture of the England camp and turned us into a team that, first, punched above its weight and then 'at' its weight. We haven't played as badly as we did on Thursday under Southgate at a tournament before then.

second halfs of croatia and italy?

usa?

scotland?

 

 

Edited Saturday at 10:12 by huss9