James Trafford

[Rod]

5 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

Not enthusiastic about this deal at all. Probably a good keeper for the future but we need an instant improvement on Pope which am not sure he is.

Pope is arguably the best English goalkeeper at this moment.  Why do you think we need an improvement?

[madras]

10 minutes ago, Rod said:

Pope is arguably the best English goalkeeper at this moment.  Why do you think we need an improvement?

We don't know how he's going to come back from his injury, it done for Krul. Also re the English thing, in the league I'd agree however Pickford always turns up for the National team even when on the skids domestically. If I was England manager Pickford would still be the no1.

[Dr Jinx]

50 minutes ago, Rod said:

Pope is arguably the best English goalkeeper at this moment.  Why do you think we need an improvement?

He can’t kick a ball properly. If he was England’s best goalie he’d be at the tournament.

 

Hes good and he’s a lot better than Dubravka but the sole issue of his poor kicking leads to a lot of turnover of possession.

 

If we’re having a keeper playing in that sweeper role, they need to be able to pass properly.

[jack j]

A sweeper keeper predominantly comes out to smash the ball away before the attacker gets there

They haven't got time to get it on the deck and fanny on with it most of the time.

If you're talking about him playing out from the back then that's a total different thing to a sweeper keeper

 

 

Edited June 19 by jack j

[Dr Jinx]

41 minutes ago, jack j said:

A sweeper keeper predominantly comes out to smash the ball away before the attacker gets there

They haven't got time to get it on the deck and fanny on with it most of the time.

If you're talking about him playing out from the back then that's a total different thing to a sweeper keeper

 

 

 

I’m talking about a keeper who will play at edge of box when we’re in possession, freeing up other defenders to push on.. who can play short, medium and long passes as is required.

 

Being in that position means a keeper will get there before an attacker most of the time.

 

Pope can play from the back if he’s rolling it to Schär or Botman.. but everything else comes at a risk of losing the ball.

 

It’s unfortunate because he’s a top keeper otherwise.

[ATB]

Agree, we would benifit a lot from having a new keeper with those attributes. We need to get away from defending deep a big portion of the time. That cost us a lot.

[jack j]

18 minutes ago, ATB said:

Agree, we would benifit a lot from having a new keeper with those attributes. We need to get away from defending deep a big portion of the time. That cost us a lot.

We never defended deep when Pope was in goal though.

[ExiledGeordie]

7 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

He can’t kick a ball properly. If he was England’s best goalie he’d be at the tournament.

 

Hes good and he’s a lot better than Dubravka but the sole issue of his poor kicking leads to a lot of turnover of possession.

 

If we’re having a keeper playing in that sweeper role, they need to be able to pass properly.

I’m just not convinced this summer we’ll shell out the money for a starting keeper when you consider the other areas that need filling particularly now as we missed out on Tosin. Pope’s shoulder aside the defence function pretty solidly when he’s playing. Botman will also be back later this season and Kelly provides more recovery pace. I can see why they’re going for Trafford that’s all.

 

We desperately need a new RW, R CB, probably a new striker. I think they’ll opt fo those areas above spending 35-40 or whatever it costs on a new keeper. 

[ExiledGeordie]

19 minutes ago, jack j said:

We never defended deep when Pope was in goal though.

Exactly, Pope allows the defence to push up which was one of the major issues when Dubravka was in goal. 
 

They must rate Trafford pretty highly anyway and it sounds like the structure of the deal is the only issue. 

 

 

Edited June 20 by ExiledGeordie

[Pixelphish]

9 hours ago, Ronaldo said:

So harsh. Deserves better after how good he’s been.

Wild how quickly we became entitled. Not saying we shouldn't aspire to better players but you'd think he was worse than Heaton.

[Dan Gleebals]

Trafford is almost certainly better than Dubravka, so we are in a better position if Pope is out. 

 

Trafford is young. He could go on to be a brilliant keeper, he may not. But as a backup with potential, I think this makes sense.

Otherwise, we are looking at least £30M+ for a better ball playing keeper. 

 

We were/are a much better with Pope in the team, despite his distribution.  Personally I would rather focus on getting the RW sorted this summer, and another CB in, and then have another look at the situation at the end of the season.

[Groundhog63]

39 minutes ago, Dan Gleebals said:

Trafford is almost certainly better than Dubravka, so we are in a better position if Pope is out. 

 

Trafford is young. He could go on to be a brilliant keeper, he may not. But as a backup with potential, I think this makes sense.

Otherwise, we are looking at least £30M+ for a better ball playing keeper. 

 

We were/are a much better with Pope in the team, despite his distribution.  Personally I would rather focus on getting the RW sorted this summer, and another CB in, and then have another look at the situation at the end of the season.

This. 

Obvs the suggestion Trafford is "better than Dubravka" is subjective but even if you thought the two were similar, one is young, very young and on the way up. The other is in the opposite trajectory. Would it be fair to say, objectively, that we'd be better off?

 

I think so in either case. 

 

[ExiledGeordie]

1 hour ago, Dan Gleebals said:

Trafford is almost certainly better than Dubravka, so we are in a better position if Pope is out. 

 

Trafford is young. He could go on to be a brilliant keeper, he may not. But as a backup with potential, I think this makes sense.

Otherwise, we are looking at least £30M+ for a better ball playing keeper. 

 

We were/are a much better with Pope in the team, despite his distribution.  Personally I would rather focus on getting the RW sorted this summer, and another CB in, and then have another look at the situation at the end of the season.

Totally. RW is going to eat up most of our budget. In an ideal world we’d strengthen all areas of the team but that’s fantasy land with PSR. Club is having to box clever wiht signings.

[Beth]

9 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

I’m talking about a keeper who will play at edge of box when we’re in possession, freeing up other defenders to push on.. who can play short, medium and long passes as is required.

 

Being in that position means a keeper will get there before an attacker most of the time.

 

Pope can play from the back if he’s rolling it to Schär or Botman.. but everything else comes at a risk of losing the ball.

 

It’s unfortunate because he’s a top keeper otherwise.

Pope conceeded 32 goals in 37 games the season before last, the best ratio in our history. Unless there are serious concerns about his shoulder there is no reason to be looking to upgrade on him this summer.

 

You have fallen victim to the hipster mentality that every keeper has to be prime Messi with the ball at his feet nowadays.

[mondonewc]

His kicking is extremely poor, he's very nervous whenever he has the ball at his feet, often just kicks it out of play and induces pressure on the defence, don't really see how anyone can even dispute that, it's very clear and obvious the limitations he has with his feet. Whether or not the fact he's a fantastic shotstopper means we should just accept that is another question, but it's very fair criticism.

[54]

48 minutes ago, mondonewc said:

His kicking is extremely poor, he's very nervous whenever he has the ball at his feet, often just kicks it out of play and induces pressure on the defence, don't really see how anyone can even dispute that, it's very clear and obvious the limitations he has with his feet. Whether or not the fact he's a fantastic shotstopper means we should just accept that is another question, but it's very fair criticism.

Call me old fashioned, but while having a keeper that is great at passing would be great, its not the first thing I look for in a keeper, and am more than willing to overlook it, if the Keeper is great at everything else. Pope allows us to be 10/15 yards further up the pitch, he is a great shot stopper, and is really commanding in his box. All things that are way more important than how good his pass completion is.

 

How bad his kicking is actually over stated a bit too, last season he was exactly mid-table for his pass completion stats. Replacing Pope will eventually be a nice to do, and not a necessity and given the other positions we need to strengthen, it would be a mistake to spend a chuck of money on a new keeper at this point. 

[SteV]

4 minutes ago, 54 said:

Call me old fashioned, but while having a keeper that is great at passing would be great, its not the first thing I look for in a keeper, and am more than willing to overlook it, if the Keeper is great at everything else. Pope allows us to be 10/15 yards further up the pitch, he is a great shot stopper, and is really commanding in his box. All things that are way more important than how good his pass completion is.

 

How bad his kicking is actually over stated a bit too, last season he was exactly mid-table for his pass completion stats. Replacing Pope will eventually be a nice to do, and not a necessity and given the other positions we need to strengthen, it would be a mistake to spend a chuck of money on a new keeper at this point. 

I agree with everything there, apart from the bit about it being overstated how bad his kicking is. 
 

It’s terrible. The worst in the league. He’s mid-table in the pass completion stats because he knows this and, quite rightly, limits himself to simple 15 yard passes or hoofs.

 

But that’s OK. All other aspects of his game are excellent. To improve on him at this moment in time would require spending a fortune, or pulling an absolute rabbit out the back scouting-wise.

[Unbelievable]

32 minutes ago, SteV said:

I agree with everything there, apart from the bit about it being overstated how bad his kicking is. 
 

It’s terrible. The worst in the league. He’s mid-table in the pass completion stats because he knows this and, quite rightly, limits himself to simple 15 yard passes or hoofs.

 

But that’s OK. All other aspects of his game are excellent. To improve on him at this moment in time would require spending a fortune, or pulling an absolute rabbit out the back scouting-wise.

[mondonewc]

53 minutes ago, 54 said:

Call me old fashioned, but while having a keeper that is great at passing would be great, its not the first thing I look for in a keeper, and am more than willing to overlook it, if the Keeper is great at everything else. Pope allows us to be 10/15 yards further up the pitch, he is a great shot stopper, and is really commanding in his box. All things that are way more important than how good his pass completion is.

 

How bad his kicking is actually over stated a bit too, last season he was exactly mid-table for his pass completion stats. Replacing Pope will eventually be a nice to do, and not a necessity and given the other positions we need to strengthen, it would be a mistake to spend a chuck of money on a new keeper at this point. 

That's fair enough yeah, but just seemed a bunch of people jumping on the initial statement as if it was some ludicrous statement when it was just a very fair criticism which I found very odd. And yeah, as @SteValluded to, stats can often be used to manipulate a specific point inaccurately, I know what I see every game to know the point on his kicking isn't overstated. However, I do think I possibly undervalued his other abilities and he was certainly a huge miss this season. 

[ATB]

On 20/06/2024 at 07:42, jack j said:

We never defended deep when Pope was in goal though.

Don´t compare him with Dúbravka 

 

I´m not saying that he´s not good. But dont think he´s elite and that cost us. If we want to take the next step we need another one. But if we can get at RW and he can give us one more year, then great.

[Mountain]

On 19/06/2024 at 23:29, Dr Jinx said:

He can’t kick a ball properly. If he was England’s best goalie he’d be at the tournament.

 

Hes good and he’s a lot better than Dubravka but the sole issue of his poor kicking leads to a lot of turnover of possession.

 

If we’re having a keeper playing in that sweeper role, they need to be able to pass properly.

 

I agree with all your points except the implication he isnt the best English keeper, he's superior to Pickford in my opinon. Gareth Southgate is in charge so it's hard to trust anything. But Pope might be a crock now so yeah maybe you're correct.

[Mountain]

Pope when he was in form and fit was incredible in my opinon.

[Dr Jinx]

I think if the club had really wanted this player it would have been wrapped up before the euros.

 

It’s not their style to mess about with rejected bids and back and forth shite.. when they want to sign a player they have been decisive.

 

I think we’re still in for the Georgian guy and that will play out when we have the July budget, not saying that Trafford isn’t a viable option, I just think if they wanted him the window was there before the competition started.

[madras]

26 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

I think if the club had really wanted this player it would have been wrapped up before the euros.

 

It’s not their style to mess about with rejected bids and back and forth shite.. when they want to sign a player they have been decisive.

 

I think we’re still in for the Georgian guy and that will play out when we have the July budget, not saying that Trafford isn’t a viable option, I just think if they wanted him the window was there before the competition started.

Some have dragged on like, Botman did, so did Ekitike, even Bruno.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 23:57 by madras

[Dr Jinx]

19 minutes ago, madras said:

Some have dragged on like, Botman did, so did Ekitike, even Bruno.

 

 

 

Botman was a late January move that the club wouldn’t accept a bid for.. I think it was nailed on he’d come here unless Milan could match our bid. They didn’t and he wanted to come here anyway so..

 

Ekitike again, similar but that’s firmly on an asshole agent thinking he was being a smart arse. We agreed the fee with his club fairly quickly.

 

Bruno, first any of us heard about it was when news broke that a bid was accepted. Transfer took a bit to conclude because he was away on international duty.. I think all of that was fairly decisive.