Anthony Elanga

[andycap]

6 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Can only think of West Ham and Everton (both at home), where we struggled against a low block last season.

 

Our xG, goals scored, etc were generally fine across the season as a whole.

You know what I mean mate when we can't break a side down. 

Technical winger would probably be the better option off the right hand side too mix our attacks up. 

[joeyt]

Do we struggle with retaining possession?

 

We've got comfortable defenders and midfielders on the ball to build up our attacks pretty easily from the back.

[Toon1984]

Right, so that’s Elanga and Garnacho too expensive/aren’t good enough. So what about this Yamal  kid at Barca?

 

We have a manager with a proven record of (greatly) improving most of his players and a scouting team that has consistently identified players that have gone on to improve, whether we signed them or not.

 

It’s great to debate the merits and values of potential signings but once we actually go after a player, you’d be brave to be disappointed if we sign him.

[The Prophet]

3 minutes ago, andycap said:

You know what I mean mate when we can't break a side down. 

Technical winger would probably be the better option off the right hand side too mix our attacks up. 

 

That's what I mean, it doesn't happen very often.

 

Poor finishing or decision making tend to be much bigger issues in the final third.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, joeyt said:

Do we struggle with retaining possession?

 

We've got comfortable defenders and midfielders on the ball to build up our attacks pretty easily from the back.

We are poor in possession and keeping the ball when under pressure or wanting to see out a game. Pretty obvious isn’t it ?

[Cronky]

22 minutes ago, andycap said:

Don't understand this thinking at all why would we shift gordon? If we did that we'd be back to square one needing another winger. 

 

I just think that if we sign Elanga, we'd end up with 4 right-footed wide players. Murphy is a useful squad player who can cover other positions, and wouldn't fetch much wonga, so it's between Barnes and Gordon. At this moment, there's not much to choose between those two, and Gordon would be the easier to shift for a big fee. LIverpool seem to have a long-term interest.

[joeyt]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

We are poor in possession and keeping the ball when under pressure or wanting to see out a game. Pretty obvious isn’t it ?

 

Well last season out of the 23 games we took the lead in we drew 2 and lost 1 of them - which seems pretty good?

 

Ideally we'll not be relying on a 55 year old Callum Wilson next season at the end of matches. We certainly aren't poor in posession

[SteV]

4 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

Well last season out of the 23 games we took the lead in we drew 2 and lost 1 of them - which seems pretty good?

 

Ideally we'll not be relying on a 55 year old Callum Wilson next season at the end of matches. We certainly aren't poor in posession

We don’t see out games by keeping possession. We just make sure that, primarily, we’re extremely defensively resolute from that point onwards.

 

So in a sense @SUPERTOON is right, but given those stats you quote, is there any need to change?

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

2 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

Well last season out of the 23 games we took the lead in we drew 2 and lost 1 of them - which seems pretty good?

I think there is a pretty lazy narrative developing regarding our shortcomings. Everton and West Ham at home we struggled not against the low block but the fact that these teams had strong physical players able to match our centre backs who then led quick transistions. Brentford away illustrated this again but in a game where we had plenty of chances to score. Bournemouth at home was our inability to cope with the press not the low block. Similarly Brighton home, combined with our inability to score chances in that game. 

I understand the clamour for creative wingers but we forget that we have good ball playing full backs, centre halves and midfielders (Bruno & Tonali). I expect to see greater output from our fullbacks next season. 

[Smal]

11 minutes ago, joeyt said:

Do we struggle with retaining possession?

 

We've got comfortable defenders and midfielders on the ball to build up our attacks pretty easily from the back.

 

against teams that press us, yeah we do struggle imo. 

 

In terms of build up, for passes completed outside of the opposition 3rd we rank 11th in the league with an 83.33% pass completion rate. For reference the top 4 teams are Man City (90.5%), Arsenal (

86.95%), Liverpool (86.73%) and Chelsea (86.58%). It's definitely something we could do with improving on - the likes of Murphy, Gordon and Joelinton all frequently give the ball away pretty carelessly. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

But we play direct so we shouldn’t be high up on that metric. 

[Thumbheed]

10 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

But we play direct so we shouldn’t be high up on that metric. 

 

Surely the point is we can and should aim to be higher?

[joeyt]

4 minutes ago, Smal said:

 

against teams that press us, yeah we do struggle imo. 

 

 

Most are suggesting we need a player to break down low block teams rather than teams that are pressing us though

[Shearergol]

Most of the people arguing keeping possession isn’t important complain about our ability to keep the ball in every match thread.

[mattypnufc]

Collect all the Anthony’s. 

[Thumbheed]

20 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

Most are suggesting we need a player to break down low block teams rather than teams that are pressing us though

 

Kind of goes hand in hand doesn't it?

 

Players who are more adept on the ball are able to both keep possession better and find the best pass when needed. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

18 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

Surely the point is we can and should aim to be higher?

4th highest goals scored this season. Imagine if Isak played since the cup final. Doesn’t scream it’s a massive problem in fact it may be a reason why we score so many. 
 

Having raw pace on both wings would also significantly limit teams pressing in numbers higher up the pitch. 

 

[Smal]

13 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

But we play direct so we shouldn’t be high up on that metric. 

 

You can't always play direct though (and... we don't) because of how the opposition plays. Perhaps they sit deep and allow no space, or they play a high line with their keeper sweeping everything up so that you can't play in behind them, or their defenders are fast and able to deal with your attackers. The point I've tried to make is that Elanga doesn't really give us any of the added versatility that we need. If we want to keep progressing we can't just have a squad built for one game plan when there are games where that game plan identifiably doesn't work. 

 

11 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

Most are suggesting we need a player to break down low block teams rather than teams that are pressing us though

 

Sure, but good technical/creative players can help with both. If Bournemouth or Fulham come to SJP to press us, and our usual plan of going direct isn't working, I think a player like a Lee Kang-In or a Kulusevski gives you a different way of being able to play through it to what we have in the squad.

 

I don't think we are bad in possession considering how we play by any stretch, but there are definitely games where it's frustrating to watch our more technically limited players losing the ball because they can't play with their backs to goal and/or in small spaces. That's the kind of profile and versatility the squad needs imo. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

22 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

Surely the point is we can and should aim to be higher?

Did you look at the figures you’ve just posted there, given the number of games and other variables etc a <4% difference is approaching statistical margin of error, only Man City is massively ahead of us. And personally I’d rather have 4% less successful passes,  than die of boredom watching the team aimlessly pass the ball side to side

[jackflap]

Nothing against Elanga he's a fine player but I don't think he's what they need and when you're signing players from a side who probably consider you a rival you're going to be paying a premium. That's okay if the player is the exact profile the squad needs and he'll solve a position for years to come. Rice to Arsenal for example but don't think that's the case with Elanga. The squad is crying out for more balance (no non defenders who are left footed) and creativity in the final 3rd. Bruno is the only real natural creator IMO and even his passing has limitations.

 

I think the profile of player they need is a creative left footed RW who can carry the ball and with vision to pick a pass. Somebody who can cut inside in the final 3rd, look up and the defence has to worry about a ball going back post to Isak, a runner from midfield or Livramento on the overlap. We saw how Livramento's game improved going to LB with a winger in front who can cut inside. I don't like the idea of negating what could be a real strength.

 

Now such a player might not exist in this window or want to join, think Mbeumo wouldn't been ideal but what can you do. However I'd rather not see them invest too heavily in a position if the player isn't the profile they need long term. Much rather look abroad and take a punt on someone for lesser money.

[elbee909]

2 hours ago, jonny1403 said:

Sorry Froggy, you think 60m for Garnacho would NOT be a ridiculous price?!

 

Also involvements in goals being conceded doesn't count re. Garnacho.

[elbee909]

14 minutes ago, jackflap said:

Much rather look abroad and take a punt on someone for lesser money.

 

[Thumbheed]

31 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

4th highest goals scored this season. Imagine if Isak played since the cup final. Doesn’t scream it’s a massive problem in fact it may be a reason why we score so many. 
 

Having raw pace on both wings would also significantly limit teams pressing in numbers higher up the pitch. 

 

 

Agree with your first point to be fair, but it's not necessarily the goals scored column I'm bothered about.

 

From what I saw, our wingers would more often than not give the ball away, leading to those counters you talk of. 

 

Possession was often won and recycled to them only for them to lose it a bit too comfortably leaving us prone to counter and/or losing territory.

 

Also, I don't think many teams pressed us that high too often, it was in the centre of the field vs Bournemouth and West Ham was pure low block and counter, so I don't think having quick wingers negates that too much as it was very much possession lost further up the field that led to those breaks. 

 

My view is having better players who are more press proof and who play the intelligent pass will make more of a difference to our game by virtue of the fact they retain possession better in the final third, thus improving on those aforementioned stats. 

[andycap]

Considering kvaratskalia went for 60 million euros last summer the prices been quoted for players no way near as good as him shows how dear the English Market is. 

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I find it a bit mad, some of the apathy towards Elanga. 

 

If Kubo or Bakayoko played for Forest and Elanga's highlight reel was with Real Sociedad or PSV, we'd probably want him over the others.