Ranking our Squad - 21 Livramento

[Lush Vlad]

2 minutes ago, LFEE said:

Yet still no one has disagreed with the deficiencies pointed out 

 

Ill give him an A if he singlehandly wins us the cup though 

No people were rightly pointing out your ridiculous points and the almost unicorn level player. Was it Benzema and CR7 you were comparing him to  

 

All players have deficiencies in their game. 

[The Butcher]

As of now a pointless signing. E.

[LFEE]

7 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

No people were rightly pointing out your ridiculous points and the almost unicorn level player. Was it Benzema and CR7 you were comparing him to  

 

All players have deficiencies in their game. 

And to me he has too many to be classed as an A. Just my opinion and critique of him as a player where he currently is at the moment. Not sure why criticism is so hard for people to accept. The world ain’t going to stop turning. I did say he was excellent at everything else not listed. Though now I come to think of it need to judge him more on 1v1s when he has time to think. Went through a bad little spell of chances fluffing them when time to think. The Arsenal and Brighton disallowed goals give me confidence he’s changed his approach.

[Donut]

E.

 

Im sorry but he will end up as a 12 goals per season League One player at best.

[Yorkie]

5 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

The Osula transfer is annoying and is playing out how you would expect. 
 

Talented. 
Not trusted for meaningful minutes.  
not enough meaningful minutes to develop quickly. 
Probably a good transfer in the medium/long term but could’ve used the resources better for this season 

 

£15million gets you next to fuck all these days. Can't really see how we divert that towards a player more ready to start for us.

 

Besides, he has taken the load off Isak to some extent, thanks to his cup appearances.

[Oregon_Geordie]

So far, not seen anything to warrant the purchase, a start or the song.

Looks like a rabbit in the headlights in every PL game.

 

But, hope I'm wrong and he comes good.

 

E

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

£15million gets you next to fuck all these days. Can't really see how we divert that towards a player more ready to start for us.

 

Besides, he has taken the load off Isak to some extent, thanks to his cup appearances.

Huijsen type money and not dissimilar wages I assume. Thuram type money.  

[Sibierski]

D. Just because we’re not using him well as a squad player, doesn’t mean he can’t be that elsewhere. 
 

I know Hall is shown as a good light for developing under Howe, but if we don’t get injuries last season, he doesn’t come into team. Miley forced up due to injuries. 
 

Howe has shown he can improve young players so I just wish he had confidence (maybe even backing from club?) to play them more and not wait till hand is forced. Osula should be playing way more than he has and will need to be if we want to get Europe. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 20:28 by Sibierski

[Yorkie]

41 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

D. Just because we’re not using him well as a squad player, doesn’t mean he can’t be that elsewhere. 
 

I know Hall is shown as a good light for developing under Howe, but if we don’t get injuries last season, he doesn’t come into team. Miley forced up due to injuries. 
 

Howe has shown he can improve young players so I just wish he had confidence (maybe even backing from club?) to play them more and not wait till hand is forced. Osula should be playing way more than he has and will need to be if we want to get Europe. 

 

What's this actually based on? He hasn't impressed at all in his PL appearances but he's been gradually improving with every cup game. Mentioning Hall does very little for the argument like - he's the ultimate justification of being eased in slowly. 

[Matt1892]

Osula is an E.

[Ronaldo]

Thing is, there are players who’ve shown far more talent than Osula at a younger age who’ve ended up having very average (at best) careers. Impossible to tell but he’s really fallen on his feet coming here and it’s up to him to earn it.

 

The striker situation is a bit of a mess tbh and it needs cleaning up in the summer with an acquisition or two, Callum packing his bags and Osula on loan somewhere starting games. 

[Sibierski]

9 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

What's this actually based on? He hasn't impressed at all in his PL appearances but he's been gradually improving with every cup game. Mentioning Hall does very little for the argument like - he's the ultimate justification of being eased in slowly. 

He’s played 65 mins of prem football this season, and they’ve all been in games where we’re either comfortably up so are sitting back, or comfortably behind and chasing shadows with little shape. Hard to impress in those situations.

 

He’s shown useful rawness both last season for Sheff Utd and us in cups. If he can’t even get 1/10th of the minutes he got at Sheff Utd in league for us so far, it’s on the management for not trusting him more. Hall wasn’t a justification for being slowly eased in for me, when it was clear from day one he should’ve been starting LB because he offered way more than Burn in that position. 

 

Callum Wilson has played twice as many prem minutes than Osula this season ffs  

[TheBrownBottle]

14 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

£15million gets you next to fuck all these days. Can't really see how we divert that towards a player more ready to start for us.

 

Besides, he has taken the load off Isak to some extent, thanks to his cup appearances.

It was enough to buy Justin Kluivert for Bournemouth with change to spare.  

[TheBrownBottle]

Osula is an E, hopefully he can develop but as of this moment he looks a long way short

[TheBrownBottle]

30 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

He’s played 65 mins of prem football this season, and they’ve all been in games where we’re either comfortably up so are sitting back, or comfortably behind and chasing shadows with little shape. Hard to impress in those situations.

 

He’s shown useful rawness both last season for Sheff Utd and us in cups. If he can’t even get 1/10th of the minutes he got at Sheff Utd in league for us so far, it’s on the management for not trusting him more. Hall wasn’t a justification for being slowly eased in for me, when it was clear from day one he should’ve been starting LB because he offered way more than Burn in that position. 

 

Callum Wilson has played twice as many prem minutes than Osula this season ffs  

Osula has a total of 31 PL appearances and 0 goals.  Subs appearances or not, that’s not great stats

[Sibierski]

15 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Osula has a total of 31 PL appearances and 0 goals.  Subs appearances or not, that’s not great stats

So that’s 0 goals in 840 mins essentially. Which 90% of that came for a truly woeful Sheff Utd side.

 

Kluivert scored one goal in his first 700 or so mins when moving to Prem, and that was against said Sheff Utd side.

[TheBrownBottle]

20 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

So that’s 0 goals in 840 mins essentially. Which 90% of that came for a truly woeful Sheff Utd side.

 

Kluivert scored one goal in his first 700 or so mins when moving to Prem, and that was against said Sheff Utd side.

That’s fair enough

 

Osula looks miles away to me - I’m not seeing the PL striker in waiting. 

[Yorkie]

It's been discussed on here several times but our transfer policy is far more risk averse than to gamble our artifically limited budget on players who should guarantee you mid-table in the PL, but whom could just as easily flop. It's not an exact comparison financially either: the wages will be significantly different and there's also no way the likes of Kluivert joins us for the same price they join Bournemouth. They also play different positions.

 

To me it seems unfair to criticise us for using funds on players with high potential and whom either become: (best case scenario) a starter for us; (alternatively) someone we turn a profit on; or (worst case scenario) someone we peddle at a minor loss/for what we paid. 

 

Using funds like that feels like much more of a guarantee that we don't end up with an unsuitable player that we can't shift and can't play.

 

As for his development; it's beyond me at this point how folks don't back the manager a bit more in these cases. Alright, when it's the likes of Souness, Pardew, McClaren, Bruce - we know they're fucking clueless, so why trust them? But Howe is brilliant and also excels particularly in this exact field (improving players).

[Sibierski]

What rating would people have giving Hall this time last season if this thread was made? Considering he had 104 mins of prem football to date, and his only start saw him come off at HT.

 

Howe does improve players, but I think you can also argue that’s he too slow to bring players in. 

[Yorkie]

4 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

Howe does improve players, but I think you can also argue that’s he too slow to bring players in. 

 

To me, Hall being as brilliant as he has this season is a justification of the manager's methods. 

[kingxlnc]

15 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

£15million gets you next to fuck all these days. Can't really see how we divert that towards a player more ready to start for us.

 

Besides, he has taken the load off Isak to some extent, thanks to his cup appearances.

Hujisen, Kerkez, Milenkovic, Kluivert, Semenyo, Caicedo, Mac Allister, Olise, Eze, CHO, Wharton there's plenty of players out there who are available for there or thereabouts. 

We're very very precise with our spending which is why we miss out on these. In a way, we're already trying to spend like a big boy (like the Man Citys, Liverpools, Man U's etc) and buy guaranteed success at a premium rate, hence the preference for PL only or purple-level foreigners. It's hamstringing us on seeing opportunities and pouncing.  

The good news though, everyone we have been linked to in an extended way has been a success whether they signed for us or not. Trafford, Ekitike, Joao Pedro, Guehi, Khusnov, Marmadishivilli, Szoboszlai.

 

So they do know what they're doing, that's for damn sure. 
 

[TheBrownBottle]

51 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

As for his development; it's beyond me at this point how folks don't back the manager a bit more in these cases. Alright, when it's the likes of Souness, Pardew, McClaren, Bruce - we know they're fucking clueless, so why trust them? But Howe is brilliant and also excels particularly in this exact field (improving players).

I haven’t seen anyone not say this tbf.  Howe is superb at developing players.  I don’t see much in the lad at the moment, but if it’s in there he’s at the right club. 

[Matt1892]

52 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

What rating would people have giving Hall this time last season if this thread was made? Considering he had 104 mins of prem football to date, and his only start saw him come off at HT.

 

Howe does improve players, but I think you can also argue that’s he too slow to bring players in. 

Probably a C, his potential was undeniable and he didn’t look out of place in Chelsea’s back line, although he was suspect at times defensively due to age and being new to the position, he would still have started on a regular basis for a fair few Premier League clubs.
 

The whole Hall was left out so that is the way to do it argument is nonsense, do people genuinely think Hall wouldn’t have made it if he was playing on a regular basis, either here or somewhere else? 

 

Osula doesn’t have the pedigree of Hall and while he does have some raw physical attributes, I’m not sure he has the footballing IQ to go with it.

[TheBrownBottle]

36 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

Probably a C, his potential was undeniable and he didn’t look out of place in Chelsea’s back line, although he was suspect at times defensively due to age and being new to the position, he would still have started on a regular basis for a fair few Premier League clubs.
 

The whole Hall was left out so that is the way to do it argument is nonsense, do people genuinely think Hall wouldn’t have made it if he was playing on a regular basis, either here or somewhere else? 

 

Osula doesn’t have the pedigree of Hall and while he does have some raw physical attributes, I’m not sure he has the footballing IQ to go with it.

He would’ve been a C/D for me, but like you said Hall didn’t come in as someone who wasn’t rated.  Hall was also much younger than Osula, so as you say there isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ to this.

 

I don’t think Howe holds players back because he thinks that is how you do it - you’re in when you’re ready.  If you come in ready, then you start. 

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, kingxlnc said:

Hujisen, Kerkez, Milenkovic, Kluivert, Semenyo, Caicedo, Mac Allister, Olise, Eze, CHO, Wharton there's plenty of players out there who are available for there or thereabouts. 

We're very very precise with our spending which is why we miss out on these. In a way, we're already trying to spend like a big boy (like the Man Citys, Liverpools, Man U's etc) and buy guaranteed success at a premium rate, hence the preference for PL only or purple-level foreigners. It's hamstringing us on seeing opportunities and pouncing.  

The good news though, everyone we have been linked to in an extended way has been a success whether they signed for us or not. Trafford, Ekitike, Joao Pedro, Guehi, Khusnov, Marmadishivilli, Szoboszlai.

 

So they do know what they're doing, that's for damn sure. 

 

Agree with all of that, but re the first paragraph, I think it's overly simplistic to say "well we could have got so-and-so and so-and-so." For starters, many of those you've listed were very similar signings to the likes of Osula: i.e. young Championship starlets, so to me, listing those argues in favour of us making that signing.